How to operate the Flex-6400 with Maestro without an Internet connection?

Mike-N1VE

I operate the Flex when it is connected to my router with a LAN cable. Also the Maestro is wired to the Flex. I lost the Internet connection the other day and I couldn't use the Flex. Can someone give me detailed instructions on how to use the Flex when the Internet is not available? I am not familiar with networking, so the explanation must be simple. Thanks

Alan

Mike

The router must remain on and powered up for the Flex and Maestro to talk to one another. Unless you have the Maestro ethernet plugged directly into the Flex Radio.

I think you believe the router being on, means you are connected to the internet. Not necessarily.

First some definitions:

The Internet means the cyber world outside your house.

Your Local Area Network (LAN) is what your home device use to communicate. Your router is the "gatekeeper" and does not allow anyone on the internet to have access to your LAN. Think of it as the front door to your home, that remains locked to outsiders.

The Wide Area Network (WAN) is the internet. Think of it as all of the strange people, not allowed into your house. The router keeps the strangers (internet) locked out of your LAN (inside your house).

Now, your specific situation:

On your router, you have "LAN" ports and most likely, one "WAN" port. The router uses the LAN ports to allow devices on your local network to communicate....like the Flex Radio and the Maestro. When you removed power from the router, your devices could not communicate with one another.

The WAN port, on the router, connects your LAN devices to the internet. If you have no internet, the WAN port will be empty.

If you have a combination router/modem, you will not see a WAN (internet) port, but.....if your router/modem is not connected to the internet, that is the same as the WAN port not being connected.

In the end, unless your Flex is connected directly to the Maestro, then each must be connected to the router and the router powered up. The router does not need to be talking to the internet for this to work.

Alan. WA9WUD

KD0RC

Hi Mike, You mention that the Maestro is wired to the Flex. Do you mean that the cable from the Maestro is connected directly to the radio? If so, that should work.

If that is not how you are connected, let me know the specifics and I will see if I can help.

If that is how you are connected, there are some things that we can look and try.

Mike-N1VE

Hi Ken,

Thanks for the quick response. Yes, I have a CAT 5 cable between the Flex and the Maestro. When I booted up the radio and then the Maestro, the Maestro wouldn't find the radio.

73

Mike

KD0RC

Ah, OK. Are you set up using DHCP and not a static IP address? Here is how my 6400 is set up:

I don't have a Maestro, so I don't know where the corresponding screen is on the Maestro, but I think that if you set them both up as DHCP, they will find each other.

If this is not the problem, try shutting the radio and Maestro down and restarting. If you have already tried this, then you should export your profiles and do a factory reset of the radio, then re-import.

If that does not work, then I would submit a helpdesk ticket.

KD0RC

Hi Mike, I just found this in the Maestro documentation (see bold, below):

4.2 NETWORK CONNECTION

Maestro requires a network connection to your FLEX-6000 radio. This connection can take one of two forms:

• A wired connection using the RJ-45 Ethernet port on the back of the Maestro. This connection can take two forms

o A direct connection with a single wire, one end plugged into the Maestro, the other end plugged into the FLEX-6000 transceiver. In this configuration, the Maestro and the radio set up a two-node ad hoc network and communicate across it.

o An indirect connection through a Local Area Network switch. Many configurations are possible, but typically the Maestro is connected to a 100/1000 BaseT port on the switch, and the FLEX-6000 transceiver is connected to a similar port. A third agent, such as an ISP supplied router-modem provides IP addresses to the network components via a DHCP service.

Note: When Maestro is operated on battery power, the wired Ethernet port is disabled.

• A Wi-Fi (wireless) connection using the built-in wireless adapter. On start-up, Maestro will attempt to make a Wi-Fi connection using information from earlier sessions, or if no recognized network is available, Maestro will present the Choose a Wi-Fi Network screen showing available networks. Select a network by tapping its name, then tapping the Connect button. You may be required to enter a password to access the network.

Could this be the issue?

WX7Y

Make sure your plugged into the Network RJ-45 and NOT the MIC RJ-45, I have gotten these two jacks reversed more then once when not paying attention.

When connected to the radio do you have the Connectivity LED's on both ends (Radio and Maestro) lit up or flashing?

I can't remember if the connection between the Radio and Maestro requires a Cross over cable or not but just a thought.

Mike-N1VE

The radio and Maestro and mic work fine unless our Internet is not working. In that case I got a message to connect to our Internet because it couldn't find it, because it wasn't working. It's normally not a problem, but there might be times when the Internet is down that I'd like to use the radio. I will make sure that both the radio and Maestro are set up for DHCP.

Mike-N1VE

KD0RC

Hi Mike, the internet is not needed for anything except upgrades and remote operation.

When you operate normally from home, do you connect using SmartLink? If so, it indicates that your rig and Maestro are on different LAN segments, and therefore go through the Internet to get connected. This is not an ideal situation, and can usually be easily corrected.

If it happens again, can you post a screenshot of the error?

Mike-N1VE

I just unplugged the power to the modem/router. Then I booted up the Flex 6400. Once it was booted up I turned on the Maestro. This is the way I get the rig running each time. Surprisingly the radio and Maestro both are working fine!

When the Internet was not working a few days ago when we had a major area outage, was that different than unplugging the modem/router which is where my Flex is connected via a CAT 5 cable?

Why is it working with the power off to the modem/router?

Why was it not working during an Internet outage?

KD0RC

The answer to those questions depends on how everything is connected, and whether you are using WiFi at any point in the chain.

So, with the modem/router off, what is the radio plugged into? What is the Maestro plugged into? Is the Maestro operating from battery or plugged into a power supply?

Mike-N1VE

"So, with the modem/router off, what is the radio plugged into?"

The radio is plugged into 12-volts and the modem/router with a CAT 5 cable, which is turned off.

"What is the Maestro plugged into?" "Is the Maestro operating from battery or plugged into a power supply?"

The Maestro is plugged into 12-volts from an external power supply. It is connected to the radio via a CAT 5 cable.

KD0RC

I think I am missing something. The Radio can't be plugged into the Router and the Maestro at the same time.

Do you also have a switch that the Radio and Maestro are both plugged into?

Mike-N1VE

Thanks to Alan for the definitions. I will print them out and try to understand them.

I crawled under my station table and checked the back of the Flex radio. As Len said, the radio is not connected to the CAT 5 cable that goes to the router/modem. I must have disconnected it when I connected the Maestro to the radio a year or more ago.

Nothing is connected to the WAN on my router/modem, because my connection is DSL. I have a separate DSL connection.

I double checked the boot up of the Flex and Maestro with the router/modem turned off. And again they booted up fine. I don't understand why they wouldn't boot up when the Internet connection was down, perhaps it was a coincidence.

Thank you all for your suggestions and help. It's good to know that there is such a knowledgeable group available to address my questions.

KD0RC

Hi Mike, now that we know how you are connected, you might want to try having both the Flex radio and the Maestro plugged into the router (you will want both to use DHCP).

Everything should come up more quickly. When the computer or Maestro is directly connected as you are now, the radio and Maestro wait and wait for an IP address to be given to them from the router. After a while the radio gives up and gives itself the standard "standalone" address, and the direct connection is made between Maestro and radio. This is sometimes called "Field Day mode" because it is how most of us connect when operating away from the internet.

With the radio and Maestro connected to the router, an IP address is given to the radio and to the Maestro very quickly and the connection happens without the long wait for the address server to time out. Give this a try (if you are not too tired of trying things...) and let us know how it goes. The startup time should be quicker, you will be able to do software upgrades, and if you ever want to, you will be able to operate remotely.

Mike-N1VE

Hi Len,

Thanks so much for your interest in my Flex setup. It makes sense to have them both connected to the router. At this time the radio is could be easily connected to the router because I ran a CAT 5 cable to the floor with the router. How do I connect the Maestro to the router? With another CAT 5 cable or wirelessly?

One criticism I have with the Flex is the time it takes for the radio and the Maestro to boot up, since I do the radio first and when it's fully operating (steady green light) then I turn on the Maestro. Total time sometimes approaches five minutes.

I have run the radio, the Maestro, and also operated the radio with a computer, but I didn't like the choppiness of the receive audio. I attributed it to my slow Internet connection. That's why I connected the Maestro to the radio.

73

Mike

KD0RC

Hi Mike, If you connect the Maestro to the router with a cable, you will get a faster startup time, and very low latency (delay). You should not get any choppiness in your audio. It should work as well as the direct connection, but with a faster startup.

The WiFi connection is really handy for taking your Maestro out on the deck to operate like that, but WiFi is notoriously poor at real-time communications like we use in ham radio (works great for streaming services where latency is not an issue). So when you really need independence from the cable, WiFi does work, but for best results, use CAT5 or CAT6 cabling everywhere.

Mike-N1VE

Len,

Thanks for the information. When I get ambitious, I will run another CAT 5 cable up to the router and hopefully cut some of my boot up time. Since I have been operating with the radio disconnected from the Internet for more than a year, I suppose I will have an update to download.

73

Mike