Power pole connector problems

Patrick

The plastic housing is the item I suspect in that it may have a fairly low tolerance to high temperatures.  It would cause a catch 22 situation were as each time it gets heated up the looser the mechanical contact and up goes the contact resistance and on and on.  I am pretty sure that this was my situation.  

Stan VA7NF

Stayed out of this conversation (polite term) however:
There seem to be some manufacturing problems lately with the power poles be it the housing or the delivered bend / tension in that our club station could not be moved without the connector becoming a non-connector by falling out.
Flex: Because of the manufacturing or assembly problems:

1. Part of pre-delivery check the delivered 6xxx and the SHIPPED cable should be checked and any loose pin spacing should be adjusted by tightening the tension.  Not nice to have the connector fall out!
2. Include a mention, somewhere in the delivery notes, that user assembled cables may need tightening; and how to do it.

KY6LA_Howard

As an ancient Engineer who used to be responsible for design and installation of complex computer/communications systems in harsh environments such as Traffic Light Controllers, City Bus Tracking Systems, City Subway Systems, Military Surveillance and Targeting Drones to name a few, I learned several important lessons from older engineers about connectors 

  
               1.  All connectors will fail.. its Mean Time Between Failure (MTBF) that you design for         

               2.  Strain Relief will dramatically improve MTBF by orders of magnitude  - this can be as simple as a tie wrap around the power cable tied to a fixed post to take up the weight.                                                            
               3.  Connectors are usually not designed to support any significant weight or vibration of wire  Adding weight will decrease MTBF -- there are even tables for calculating the MTBF loss                                                 
                   4..  Most of the few issues of PowerPoles coming lose on Flex can be easily fixed with a simple addition of a strain relief on the power cable... you do not even have to add a special ****... Just tie the strain relief plastic tie wrap to the grounding post.. probably a 10 cent fix.

                  5.  All connectors will fail from Oxidation.. BUT regular preventive maintenance by the application of a contact cleaner like De-Oxit will keep the contacts clean and trouble free... I live near the ocean where everything rusts/oxidizes from salt spray. annual De-Oxit prevents problems.

                 6.  All connectors leak.   The strategic placement of drain holes will increase MTBF

Bob Needleman

Yes - The root cause of the problem may have something to do with the fact that the original manufacturer's patent (Anderson) has expired and now inexpensive, generic connectors are probably being made by other  (Asian?) suppliers. I have several older powerpole cables that I got with a Flex (6500) and Elecraft radio and they fit very tightly - you really had to pull pretty hard to disconnect them . It never needed any adjustment and never came loose.  

Neal Pollack, N6YFM

It would be really fun to have a poll on a large site like eham.net and ask "Have you ever had a problem with,  or intermittant or failed PowerPole connection.    Personally, you can add me to the list.   I had a VHF that would not turn on and it turned out the be an out-of-tolerance power pole connector that was not making connection.   Then I had another loose one with too much voltage drop a year later.   Then recently, I had one that would cut in and out.  You did not want to sneeze on it.   To be fair, it's a small percentage of my total power poles in use.  But here is the point;  I have NEVER had an issue with a larger body locking connector like the molex used on Icom and Kenwood and Yaesu, or the **** on military connectors, or the back of a commercial motorola radio in a police or fire truck.     

Some Elmer here who has been viciously defending Power Poles as the official EmComm connector for emergency services?  Um, er, ah, get a life.   Police and Fire rigs do not use power poles.  The AMATEUR EmComm people use power poles.
And please don't get me started with the whole EmComm "thing".

Well, gee, let's see;   Tonight, with a world wide Covid Pandemic, riots and civil unrest and fire blazing all over the country, a friend called who had just listened to an EmComm Net in Los Angeles.   The Net operator asked if anyone had anything to report.    THE SILENCE WAS DEAFENING!

If Amateur EmComm has nothing to contribute given ALL of the above chaos, then what does it take for Amateur EmComm to have a purpose of existance?   The day after total global thermo-nuclear war?  :-)

OK, back on topic.    I am willing to bet a chocolate chip cookie, maybe even a ****,
that more people than just me have had a problematic power pole connector over time.   I am also willing to bet a second <insert-your-choice-here> that none of those same people have had a problem with the locking molex, or cinch jones, or military ****-on connectors.  But then again, also, I DON'T REALLY CARE :-)
(should we argue about the best power supply choice next?)  :-)

If you wanna' hug power poles, go right ahead.  But as an engineer who uses LOTS of different types of connectors in aero, space, and commercial, I am HIGHLY UNIMPRESSED by them.

73
Stay safe, and don't touch ANYTHING, unless of course it is a really good Whiskey!

Neal

Bob Needleman

Neal - couldn't agree with you more. After coming from Kenwood/Icom/Yaesu and even Ten-Tec - never had any issues with their Molex or Molex-style DC power connectors. EVER- and I'm going back to rigs I've owned and used that are over 30 years old. These are locking type and brother - one you insert and lock them - they will NOT come out (takes a very firm push, or pushing down on the latch to get them to disconnect). Not sure what this 'love affair' is with PowerPoles, but clearly are not a reliable design, especially when needed for emergency or commercial communications, which is why none of the police, fire, marine comm. gear use them. If it weren't for amateurs, PowerPoles would have died a quick death a long time ago. 

Bob Needleman

Wonder if anyone on here remembers the wonderful Cinch Jones AC power connector used by Kenwood and Yaesu back in the 70's and 80s for their hybrid transceivers (eg. TS-820, FT-101E, ZD, etc)?  They were big, rectangular  heavy duty connectors with about 12 slotted contacts, with  metal shells. Some, like the one for the TS-820,  had 2 metal prongs on either end that fit into slots on  the rear panel jack and locked in. It would not budge unless you pushed the prongs in and pulled  - you could have probably swung the rig by the AC cord like a rodeo lasso and it wouldn't have come out. Very expensive connector I would bet,  but that's how amateur gear was made 'back in the day' -like the proverbial 'battle ship', and almost on par with commercial comm gear. 

Patrick

Gee, Howard, you and I have very similar experience in the electronics industry.  We are just on the opposite sides of a coin...  by the way, I agree, with all your points, without exception.  Everything that we can imagine and build will eventually fail.  Just a matter of time.  

Patrick

The only thing that holds Powerpoles together is spring tension and friction.  Yes there is a double pin tab that one can buy, and they are cheap, to hold it together. Not a particularly elegant solution, but simple.  In my case, spring tension and friction failed in my particular connector.  By the way I only found those tabs recently.  You some times don’t see things unless you actually need it.  

Craig Williams

I completely agree power poles are ****. If a product isn’t used in emergency service vehicles it shouldn’t be used on your Ham radios.

Norm - W7CK

Powerpole connectors are junk.  If you need to run your gear at a facility that requires the use of Powerpole connectors, make a pigtail.  Use a good connector on the rig with a short pigtail to a Powerpole.  How often will I ever need this - NEVER.  If I ever sell my rig to an emergency communications facility?  I really doubt it but the pigtail adapter cable will take care of it.   Once again I have seen more problems with **** Powerpole connectors than any other type.

I drank the Coolaid many years ago and paid the price.  Never again. 

Come on Flex, use a connector that is more dependable.

Norm - W7CK

Isn't this the same connector that Motorola uses on their mobile gear?   If it's good enough for them, why in the world did Ham Radio ECOMM select the darn Powerpole?

Craig Williams

15 years installing and servicing public service radios. Never saw a power pole.

Norm - W7CK

I'm not happy with the response but here's what I got:

I just got off the phone with the Army National Guard - Emergency Management Interoperable Communications Division.   I described the discussion here on the Flex forum and asked what they were using for 12v DC connectors on their radio communications equipment.

I was told they leave whatever connector is on the actual equipment as is and use Anderson Powerpole connectors at the other end of the cable to provide interoperability.   They have 60-80 devices setup this way and have never had any issues with the Powerpole connectors.   They use Powerpole clips to lock the connectors together and prevent them from pulling apart.

The gentleman I talked to was also a ham operator and said they provide communications equipment to ARES / RACES events with the ham community.  The problems they have seen has been with the cables and connections that the ham community has put together.  They are often not put together properly, they are not crimped with the proper equipment, wires not trimmed properly, wires pull out of the connectors, etc., etc....  

Always use the proper cable, trim it back the proper length, use high quality crimpers designed for the connectors.  For additional measure of safety and dependability, apply solder to the connection after it has been crimped.  I also think strain relief of some sort is beneficial.

With that said.  The actual equipment they use doesn't have Powerpole connectors on the radio itself.  It has whatever connector the manufacture installed.  Motorola and many of the other manufactures use various high quality connectors.   The only thing the National Guard does is puts an Anderson Powerpole connector at the far end of the radio's supplied power cord.   This connector would typically plug into another cable coming from a power supply or battery.  Retention Clips work well in this situation as long as the holes on both connectors can be accessed.  If a Powerpole connector is on the back of a rig, undue stress can be placed on the connector and some installationa do not enable the use of a retention clip because the connector does not stick far enough out of the equipment for the retention clip to be used.  This is poor design and adds to the problem.  

I personally don't think Powerpole connectors should be used on the back of the equipment itself.  A proper high quality connector that makes a solid connection, locks into place and provides some strain relief is required.   A Powerpole connector can be installed at the far end of this cable providing interoperability.

I'd love to see Flex use something other than a Powerpole on the back of their equipment. 

Just my opinion.......

Bob Needleman

Fully agree - the power connector jack on the rear of all comm. gear should be something other than Powerpoles, which can easily pull out if the radio is moved, or there is a heavy strain on the cord (say a heavy 10 ga. DC power cord hanging down back of a desk tugging on the rig's jack). That's why NONE of the Japanese manufacturers use PowerPoles and likely never will. They use high quality Molex type connectors with LOCKS. Once they're plugged into the jack - they will NEVER EVER pull out, unless the locking device is raised. And for a base type installation, you will not need any powerpoles as interconnecting since it's best to run the shortest length DC power cable from power supply to radio to avoid voltage drop (and if you want to argue this point, contact Rob Sherwood because he is a big stickler for SHORT DC power cords for this reason). So let's get rid of all powerpole jacks on the rear panel of all amateur radios -ASAP.  They are not of any advantage over Molex connectors, and in many installataions are a big disadvantage, especially if the rig is moved around at all.

Bob K3AC

Bob Needleman

Paul - and let's hope for everyone's sake (and for all the first responders), we never do!
Bob K3AC

Patrick

I hope you do. Did some research on XT-60, and had a good look at the mechanical drawings and detailed pictures.  I am impressed with the amount of surface Contact area, much better then the Powerpoles.  Gold platting is great also.  Also there is a **** attachable receptacle, could be the one I use in the future.  

Steve K9ZW

I added a packet of the XT-60Hs to a recent Amazon order and in the hand they look really nice.  Mine were the upgraded model at https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Q2SJSZ1 though the seller is now out of stock, but you can search around for other packages.

Seem well designed and simple. 

Will put some to the test.

73

Steve
K9ZW

Blog:  http://k9zw.wordpress.com  

Ted VE3TRQ

Just ordered some of these also - we'll see how they solder :-)

Ted VE3TRQ

XT-60’s seem a good fit for #10 wire. Nice firm fit of connectors, nice deep wire well for soldering - and the cap over the soldered wires provides a solid place to grip the connector to separate them.

After I got the XT-60’s, I bought some XT-90’s. Very solid fit for the connectors, not quite as deep a wire well for soldering. Fits #8 wire perfectly. I think I have found a connector to replace the 75A PP connectors I have been using for semi-permanent connections. XT-90’s are rated at 90A, so should be safe to run at 75A.