New series radio fan failures (my two 6400s both died)

Matt (K0KB)

I have two 6400s bought at different times (one a pre-order and one in November 2018).

Both are down due to fan failures.  Both are kept in pristine environments separated by approximately 200 miles (i.e. this isn't environmental).

Anyone else have fan failures on the new models?  Since flex is making me pay the return shipping for these is there a home-fix for this?

I have owned a 6300 (fan died within warranty)
I owned a 6700 (fan died within warranty)
I owned another 6700, power output issue - died within warranty

I owned a 6400, came DOA
I own another 6400, fan failure within warranty (backup radio - probably has been used a dozen times)
I own another 6400, fan failure within warranty (backup remote radio - probably has been used a dozen times)
I own a 6600, is ok so far.
I own a PGXL - had to be returned to be fixed in the warranty period.

Joe N3HEE

Hi Matt.  I had a fan failure in my 6600M.  It was DOA when I bought my pre-loved radio in August 2018.  Although it was under warranty and Flex would pay for everything I replaced the fan myself with approval from Flex.  I didn't want to send the radio back and wait for a new fan.  I actually purchased the fan myself and installed it.  Very easy to do.  You will need #8 Torx head driver to remove screws from chassis top and bottom covers.  

I bought fan from NewEgg.  https://www.newegg.com/aerocool-shark-140mm-black-edition-case-fan/p/N82E16835129057?Item=N82E16835129057

New fan has been running nearly 24/7 for the past year without issue.  So maybe there was a bad batch of fans?

Joe
N3HEE

Matt (K0KB)

Joe,

Thank you.  How do you know which fan has gone bad?  Is there anything special about that fan or will any high end 140mm case fan work?

I'd rather replace myself than have to ship it off.  What do they do about warranty status if you're breaking in there installing your own fan?

Craig Williams

1 and 1/2 year old 6400 fan still running fine.

Bill -VA3WTB

Mat of coarse you are talking to Flex about this? they will suggest the best step. There have been others who replaced the fan them selves. The new radios have one fan only. They need to be the proper spec in order to work, just any fan will not work.

Matt (K0KB)

Yes I have two separate tickets open for the two dead radios. 

They suggested I ship them back but didn't say replacing the fan yourself was an option.

Bill -VA3WTB

Ask them about that.

Matt (K0KB)

I think I'll just bring my problems here first so that I can find out all the possible solutions and then contact flex about them.

KF4HR

I've owned my 6700 since October 2015 and haven't had a fan failure, although every year or so I remove the top and carefully clean any dust away and also keep a small air filter running beside my rig.  I purchased spare fans (research this forum for information) but so far, knock on wood, I haven't needed to use them.

Joe N3HEE

Matt.  My radio would shut down after a couple of minutes because it detected the fan was bad.  The power light would flash red one time.  The fan was also making a noise as if the bearings were bad. I used a AeroCool Shark fan which was the same fan used in my radio.  See the link above.  You will have to make sure that you have the same fans in your radios.  I suspect they will be the same.  You cant use any other fan because Flex uses a fan controller that works with this particular fan's specs.

Check with Flex for approval before you proceed so you don't void your warranty. 

Not sure why Flex is charging for return shipping if you are under warranty ?

Joe N3HEE

The 6400 and 6600 use different fans.  One large 140 mm fan for the whole radio.

Matt (K0KB)

They have some CYA in their warranty I think.  They only cover shipping if your failure is within 90 days.

KL4QG

Dam not good I got 6400M month ago did Flex fix problem on new ones now ??

Mark NS9N

Wow I have owned both a 6500 and now a 6600 and run them full out even in RTTY and have never have a problem. OK all supplied parts have some issues some of the time so maybe we are only hearing from those who have had problems. I do keep my shack at 72 degrees so maybe this helps. The good news is that it looks like Flex detects that the fan has failed and shuts down before there is costly damage. Not sure any of my other radios did that!

David Decoons, wo2x

My 6600 is on almost 24x7 since I got it (alpha testing and received before released to public). Still going strong and not one hint of a problem with the fan.

Dave wo2x

Joe N3HEE

My fan was dead the day I received my radio !  The radio would shut down after a couple of minutes.  I've heard others with fan failures however it may be a small percentage overall.  My new fan is still running after a year of near 24/7 operation.  I have several 140mm fans in my PC that have been running for over 5 years at nearly 24/7 !  

Ted VE3TRQ

6600M received April 2018, on 24x7 since then, and I still can hardly hear the fan - I have to lean in to the radio in the shack to even know there is a fan. Full disclosure, I always run less than 50W.

Dan-N7HQ

Wow, Matt, I am speechless at the number of problems you've had with our radios and especially fans.  Other than offering an apology, I can certainly understand your frustration. I'd be frustrated too.  The number of fans that fail in the field is very small overall. But they do occur. 

We have no trouble sending replacement fans to customers confident in their ability to replace them. It saves everyone time and cost. For the 6400/6600 series, installing a replacement fan is a straight-forward task that can be completed with simple hand tools. All 6400/6600 radios are under warranty so currently, no customer that owns that genre of radio will have to pay for a fan. Provided we supply the fan, replacing one in the field will not void the warranty. Note that simply stating there is a fan problem is not enough, a service ticket needs to be opened and one of our support techs will need to verify the diagnosis.

One of the things we have to do regularly is deal with components that move to end-of-life. This happens on a regular basis with lots of components in our radios including passives, actives and mechanical parts. It is simply a reality in the electronics business. The existing fan for the 6400/6600 went end of life (EOL) a few months ago. When that happens, engineering performs a search for a replacement and tests several candidates. They qualify the candidate against specific requirements that for fans, go beyond voltage, current, speed, and cfm specifications.  So please don't think you can replace any of our fans with something you find elsewhere. That will void the warranty and could end up being a costly error.  BTW:  Engineering has selected a new fan and is finalizing the mounting requirements for it now. 

I hope that answered some questions and concerns you may have. 

Best,
Dan

P.S.
Replacing fans in the 6300,6500 and 6700 radios is another thing entirely, and though we will ship fans to customers with out-of-warranty radios that ask for them. I recommend sending the radio back to us for that repair.  Replacing them is still straight-forward, but more skill is involved and you will need more specialized tools.

David Decoons, wo2x

I concur about the 6300, 6500, and 6700. Not for the faint of heart. Getting the shield back on the cage around the CPU and FPGA is a tedious process to get all the "fingers" aligned properly.

Dave wo2x

k3Tim

I would respectfully disagree, aligning the shield up isn't to difficult as the fingers are preformed and stiff so they are hard to improperly seat. I found it easiest to start the corner that is hidden under the rail that holds the bottom cover then work the visible sides in place.

In anycase, the 6500 is a great rig and the s/w is tops...

k3Tim

Matt (K0KB)

Well, I have two tickets open and would prefer replacing the fans myself.

Ticket: 32864
Ticket: 32820

Can you please look in to that for me?

Thanks,

Matt

Matt (K0KB)

Here are the two radios doing a factory reset and still coming up fan error.  Not sure if you need anything else.

Radio #1: https://youtu.be/I86ifQsNLrg

Radio #2: https://youtu.be/BWVkYwe80n8

Matt (K0KB)

My radios are in very clean rooms already.  My shack is a small dedicated building and hard cell spray foamed walls, ceiling and even floor.  There's almost no dust to be found in there anyhow.

 

David Decoons, wo2x

How is the space on sides of radios? That is where air intake is. Dave wo2x

Matt (K0KB)

Quite a bit of room I'd say.  A good few inches either side and the shack is kept at 68 degrees in the summer and about 60 in the winter.  The second radio with the problem is kept on a desk and there is nothing on either side of it.

Matt (K0KB)

Just opened FR stack and it shows A-TMP and PA are both at 24 C on the 6600 as it idles.

Radios are always run through the amplifiers (i.e. < 50 watts) except if running a QSO party.  The 6400 has probably only transmitted a few times as it's just a hot-backup for the 6600.

Here's what my log looks like... these don't exactly see a lot of use.  Yes my last contact is from June 2019 and October 2018 before that

.

Steve K9ZW

@Matt K0KB

Really a great looking setup your built.  Congratulations!  I like what I don't see - that is the lack of clutter my radio room seems to end up with.  

On your help ticket correspondence the guess is you are posting what you already posted to FRS through the help ticket process?  The help ticket process changes the interaction from passive to active (and tracked with metrics for managerial review), and anything you put into that system gets to the right person right away.  In addition to just doing a  reply with your added comments above the line as they say, you can also log into the help website and add information there.  Expect you know all that but not everyone reading the community will.

Fans are bothersome troubles - I've replaced failed fans on a 6300, but haven't had any more failures on the other radios (a 6600M on 24/7 and several 6700s).  

Had other failures as well - one TenTec add on fan died (it was also a computer type fan) and in the last batch of Dell machines bought (eight in that group) one lost a fan within the first two weeks and one after a few months.  

I'm wondering if the supply chain for small electronics fans is being affected by varying levels of Quality Control, introduction of non-spec fans (possibly incorrectly labeled or outright counterfeit), age/transport/storage induced problems, over-specifying OEM games (where the claims are made but the field performance is less) or other issues?

Again a great looking shack!

73

Steve
K9ZW

Blog:  http://k9zw.wordpress.com  

Matt (K0KB)

Thanks Steve!

I try to keep the clutter in one of my outbuildings where I have spools of cables, boxes of spare parts, diagnostic tools, etc lining the shelves.  I just keep a small inventory of that stuff in the cabinets in the shack.  I'm no fan of clutter but since the shack is so small I had no choice but to keep it clutter free which has worked out well.

I submitted the tickets and passed along videos for each showing the fan errors but I got RMA numbers and shipping addresses to send the radios.  I haven't re-addressed the tickets yet since Dan responded here and I replied to him.  Hopefully he can jump in the tickets to remove the RMA and change them over to "shipping customer fans".  If he doesn't get around to it today I'll reply to each ticket individually asking if that's a possibility.

KL4QG

I live in Eskimo village we keep heat at 48-55 in winter in house I hope Radio can run on at low temps 6600B I have Codan NGT SRX back up that runs 50 below In fish camp

bahillen

Matt, very impressive shack. I had two thoughts based on my PGXL temperature and on my current activities on lightning. You may want to consider putting your amplifiers well above your Flex radios. Mine amplifier generates a lot of heat and goes straight up. It would cook my 6600. Doesn’t look like a lot of room for airflow. The bottom plate of the PGXL is a thick piece of aluminum that does get quite warm so I give it space on bottom as well as top. May also want to consider an additional rack fan connected to a thermostat. Heat is the enemy of semiconductors and electronic components and directly affects the mean time between failure. That said your fan failure is a component issue or possibly a component in the sensing circuitry. The second question relates to your lightning arrestors on the wall. I am just setting up my lightning protection plans. PolyPhaser has some great articles that are on their website. I have a vision of 50,000 amps being applied to that area. You may also have arrestors at your towers but was curious if they get connected to a single point ground with copper ribbon/strap? As a side note a 2kw PolyPhaser unit has a 600 volt +/- 20% trigger point. With higher VSWR, the voltage gets much higher. I put in the 3kw PolyPhaser units that trigger at 1200 volts. You may say your VSWR is 1.15:1 but put a load of ice or other abnormalities you may get a higher limit. Last week a friend just got a direct strike. It can be painful when it happens. I moved my radio and amplifier to a different room and love it. Even with the door open my shack is quiet. Too much heat to put it in a closet. 73 Bill W9JJB

Matt (K0KB)

Bill,

Thank you.  They aren't used enough that heat is an issue.  If it is I do keep a fan in my shack that I point at the rack if I want to run a contest.  Fortunately my kids keep me busy enough that my time isn't preoccupied with contest at the moment.