Parital FT8 Exchanges

Asher - K0AU

Anyone else seeing partial FT8 exchanges? Answering a CQ I get a response with a report in the -teens dB. I respond with R-xx. And get no acknowledgment.

Then I'll see the other station calling CQ again. I've fiddled with rx and tx audio levels (TX is -10dB in SSDR, RX is 30 to 40dB in WSJT-X). I can't find any pattern for Qs that complete normally vs partials.

Anyone else see the same thing?  FWIW network status is "excellent" with 1ms RTT. On PSKReporter I can see I'm getting a signal out.

Harold Rosee

Asher,

There are a lot of stations that are working more than one station at a time.  Most DX does that.  Drives me nuts.  You may have to transmit 20-25 times before they get back to you.  I don't like it and it's getting worse.  I usually stop transmitting to them and move on to other stations.  Some of them will finally transmit later on to you.  Some I answer and some I don't.

Then you'll have some guys in QSO with you that will see some DX and switch to them and you will never hear back from them.  Others call CQ while you are talking with them.

Everyone is getting more creative I guess.  Welcome to the new world of FY8.

Harold
W5ZZT

Chris Brown

Asher, I often see the same phenomenon, with both my Flex 6600 and Icom 7610, both running near full power. I attribute a portion of it to my limited antenna and generally poor propagation out of my QTH. Good luck! Chris KL4C, Anchorage

K3SF

ditto

you nailed it..
i see this behavior often enough...

has nothing to do with the performance of the radio has more to do with the behavior of the other operator

Paul K3SF

KY6LA_Howard

Having been on the DX Side where you are overwhelmed with contacts, you really do not have time to give a full answer.....In fact, RR73 is wasting the time to answer someone else who desperately needs an ATNO

AC9S

Then we need a response like:  K6XYZ -11, 73

Keith - AC9S

Harold Rosee

The problem with the RR73 is it is need to tell WSJT-X to fire off a log entry.

It's all in fun and not as easy as punching a button as a lot think.  If you are trtying for any awards you have to work at it and work a few stations at once.

KY6LA_Howard

Actually you can hit the log button on WSJT to manually log the QSO
When we are DX that is what we do so we can maximize Q's

OTOH... there probably should be much more use of the DXpedition mode by non USA stations.

Harold Rosee

I didn't know you could do that.  I usually try to complete the entire exchange because you never know if the other guy will log it unless the exchange is complete.

I am surprised at how many people don't use Lotw.  I live in Texas and had to have 15 contacts in Texas on 80 meters before I could get one that logged to Lotw.

KY6LA_Howard

Its almost the end of the second decade of the 21st Century...you would think all the dinosaurs had died off already....Hi Hi

Michael N3LI

On some bands like 20 meters, there is always the chance of the person not getting your exchange. Propagation there is very "skippy". And just because you are transmitting on a clear space doesn't mean someone else didn't stomp on you.

Otherwise - I dunno. If the 15 seconds of an exchange is a bridge too far, perhaps the OP should play Mario cart or something.  Amazing they would have the free time to updoad the QSO to LOTW!

KY6LA_Howard

@Michael
As Corsica was one of the few countries I had never operated from before with a rig, so i, for once in a very long time,  schlepped a rig.- My intention was to do one or 2 Q's just to collect the country as transmitted and Remoted From

In June I worked FT8 from Corsica with an ancient IC-706, rigblaster and some zip cord as an antenna with a Perrier Bottle as center insulator ... ( I also ran remote via the USA on my Flex to collect Remoting From Country #30) ...

As soon as I called CQ FT8 on 20M as Tk/KY6LA - literally got hundreds of responses.   Worked 7Q's on the west coast USA (less that 3 minute opening) before the band died or more likely i was totally swamped by unruly Italians and Russians .

I likely should have gone to DXpedition mode but in the heat of the moment,  i didn't... So I quickly devolved into just giving signal reports and going to the next QSO...That way I could work 2 Q's a minute...

Had to wait till i got back to the USA to get the LOTW certificate for TK/KY6LA
So I had plenty of time to upload QSO's after I left Corsica

NOBODY COMPLAINED about not getting RR73 and 6 of 7 West Coast USA confirmed already via LOTW.  I even got a few polite Emails thanking me for ATNO

I always give preference to west coast USA as we have such a hard time working EU

BTW... Corsica is French - Local Food and WInes are great.and inexpensive.
Beaches are superb. - we probably will go back again

Holger Hannemann

If the dinosaur (or the 21st century AI) doesn't collect awards LOTW is something useless....  Please, don't shot the messenger!
Holger

Holger Hannemann

If the dinosaur (or the 21st century AI) doesn't collect awards LOTW is something useless....  Please, don't shot the messenger!
Holger

Geoff AB6BT

Can't you do that now?

AC9S

I think so.  The person giving out the contacts just needs to do it.  Ideally FT-8 would be changed to accommodate high volume short exchanges.  What is needed is an unambiguous way to indicate a station was worked and no further transmission is forthcoming.  That is what the 73 would do.

Geoff AB6BT

Yes, the text just has to be edited for the response. I haven't looked into it but I imagine you could save the response to be whatever you want instead of entering it manually each time. Seems like a good idea.

KY6LA_Howard

If u don’t use LOTW how do u confirm a Q.

Michael N3LI

A fair number don't confirm. Which reminds me - I haven't been able to operate for a week - I need to go check my account for laggers.

Michael N3LI

My biggest problem with FT8 is that I really suspect I'm hearing a lot better than some folks. WSPR indicates that my signal's being heard in some areas, but getting the station I'm looking for is occasionally difficult. 

Perhaps its time to reinstall my PW-1 and grab the Q.

Asher - K0AU

Good discussion. It's hard to tell whether the problem is the remote operator abandoning, band conditions, or a transmit/receive problem on my side. W1JT "defines" a Q as three steps and I never know if a shorter Q will get logged by the remote station. AC9S has a really good idea and we don't even need FT4 if we switch to fewer messages in FT8. 

FT8 is awesome, but there needs to be a bigger community setting standards and the software needs some serious usability upgrades. It's not impossible but I find it really hard to answer a CQ in a single cycle, and I'd like more diagnostic visibility to figure out if a partial Q is my fault or the other guy's fault.

Close to 200 confirmed on FT8 in the last 18 months, so it's been a lot of fun for low sunspots!