FLEX-6700 SSDR V3 - Radio lockup at startup with 8 panadapters active?

Keith - AE5XN

Can someone else with a FLEX-6700 try this scenario with SSDR V3 for Windows?
Not sure if it's my radio or the new V3 causing this:

1) Open SSDR for Windows V3 and then make 8 panadapters active.  Does not matter which bands or modes they are active on.  You can even start with a factory default fresh profile.
2) Close SSDR V3 for Windows after making 8 pandadapters active.
3) Try to then launch SSDR V3 for Windows again, and see if your FLEX-6700 disconnects, causing the radio to lock up, then require a long power button press to shutdown the radio.  
In order to get SSDR V3 to connect to the FLEX-6700 again, I have to reset the radio to factory defaults.  Trying to run without resetting to defaults keeps 8 panadapters, and causes it to disconnect/crash again at startup of SSDR V3.

I can go back to V2.4.9 and not have this issue.
I can have up to 7 panadapters active and not have this issue.

This even happens with just factory default profiles, as long as 8 pandapters were active before SSDR V3 was shut down.

I have a Ryzen 2700X PC with Windows 10 Pro 1809 and one with a i9-7980XE running Windows 10 Pro 19H1 release preview.  Both behave exactly the same, even with a clean install of both Windows and SSDR V3.  Going back to SSDR V2.4.9 has no issues with 8 panadapters whatsoever.  Radio is connected to both of the PCs via 1Gig ethernet and GS108 switch.

Curious to know if this is isolated to my radio/setup only. 
Note that my radio is a very early Signature Series 6700, S/N 30, but getting no errors when this happens on the front panel.

Keith - AE5XN

KF4HR

Keith - I tried your scenario on both my i7 Win7 desktop and i7 Win10 desktop, and had zero problems.  Each time I re-opened SmartSDR (v3.0.19), all 8 slices opened normally.  By the way both my PC's run through a GS-108 Netgear Gigabyte Switch.

Bill -VA3WTB

Along those lines, as you open more pans the amount of data traffic increases. It may be that your network is stressed a bit because of this.

Keith - AE5XN

Thanks! At least I know it’s isolated to my environment, and not V3 specifically. Keith - AE5XN

Keith - AE5XN

Bill, Thanks, yes, it’s either network, radio, or even voltage drop related. My radio now has some age on it, since it was one of the initial build units for the 6700. My duty cycle has been 99% listening, 1% transmitting, but could be that there is some oxide built up on the blade fuses inside or the PowerPoles. At least I have some ideas of what to look at. Keith - AE5XN

Al_NN4ZZ

Hi Keith,
I have a 6700 that had low voltage related lockups.  But if you are not getting an error on the 6700 display, it does not seem like this is the problem.  I wrote up some detailed notes on the low voltage issue, symptoms,  and solution on my web page.  Here is a link for reference.

http://www.nn4zz.com/FLEX6700.htm#Low_Voltage_Lockup

Good luck and hope you find the issue.  

Regards,  Al / NN4ZZ  
al (at) nn4zz (dot) com

Bill W2PKY

Hello Keith-
I have a 6700 and run 8 pans all the time without issue. I would recommend opening a help desk ticket. G/L

Keith - AE5XN

Thanks everyone for all the suggestions. I’ve tried isolating the radio to a direct Ethernet cable connection, using a different cable and different Ethernet adapter than the ones used on the GS108 switch connection, and the result is the same. Also tried bumping up the power supply voltage to 14.5V, with the same results. It just won’t take opening with 8 panadapters with V3, yet works with V2.4.9. It also has no issue transmitting and getting a full 100W out into a dummy load, so that also tends to rule out a voltage drop issue. It will run with 8 panadapters on V3 if you start with 7 or less active, then make the 8th active, but it crashes the radio when you start up with 8. Looks like a Help Desk ticket may be in order.. Keith - AE5XN

Bill -VA3WTB

I would go ahead and start a ticket.

Dudley WA5QPZ

Keith, Sure that you do not have another program that maybe accessing the radio at startup? I have a very early 6700, SSDR v3 , and 8 panadpters open every time, also I checked the PC Ethernet throughput, with all 8 panadpters running I am showing about 7 mbit throughput , might check yours just as a check. Might also try leaving off starting DAX and SmartCAT. Just a thought. Dudley

Keith - AE5XN

Dudley & others - Thanks.  Taking a look at the network diagnostics in SSDR, it does appear to be an issue with the network interface, possibly on the radio itself, as different cat6 cables, different ethernet adapters (1Gbit Intel i211, 1Gbit Intel i219-v, and 5Gbit Aquantia AQ111C), as well as direct connection between the PC and the radio vs. a connection through a gigabit switch yield the exact same results.

I noticed that when I first start up 2.4.9 with 8 panadapters, or v3 with 7 panadapters (since I cannot start V3 with 8), that there can be anywhere from 20-64 dropped packets, with a grade of "fair" or "poor" at initial startup, and a high max latency that over the course of a few seconds, works it way to Excellent with 1ms latency. 

Here's an example of what I'm seeing with V2.4.9 and 8 panadapters active at startup:


After several seconds, it levels off to this:


I'm beginning to suspect the ethernet interface on the radio itself, but will need to look into it some more to prove/disprove.

Keith - AE5XN

Keith - AE5XN

I just tried an Amazon Basics USB 3.0 1Gig adapter connected directly between the PC and the radio (no internet connection, no switch).  Same behavior.

Here is the task manager view of network traffic on V2.4.9 with the dedicated adapter hooked directly to the radio with 8 panadapters active.  I see 10.2Mbs.  Even with this, I still cannot open 8 panadapters with V3, but can with V2.4.9.


Processor utilization is certainly not an issue, either.  This is on the PC with the 18 core i9-7980XE and Windows 10 19H1 release preview, running 8 panadapters and V2.4.9:


Here is the V2.4.9 network diags with this connection method - similar to before using the other adapters either directly connected or through the GS108 1G switch:


One major clue I am seeing, is that any activity that involves increased data traffic to/from the radio (changing settings, closing/opening panadapters, etc.) causes a drastic drop in network quality reported by SSDR's network diagnostics (from excellent to poor), but not necessarily dropped packets, even with the radio directly connected.  After the tasks are complete, the network quality will gradually return to excellent.

It's sure looking like something is up with the radio itself.
I'll submit a ticket and go from here.

Keith - AE5XN

Keith - AE5XN

Update for those interested:

I submitted a Help Desk ticket.  One of the things I forgot to mention in the first post, in my steps to duplicate the lockup, is to have the PC Audio button selected and enabled in SSDR V3.  Flex was able to duplicate the lockup on a 6700 they had after enabling PC Audio and starting SSDR V3 with 8 panadapers/slices active, and confirmed it is an issue with this particular, somewhat unusual usage scenario and V3.0.19 of SSDR for Windows.  They have logged it as a defect, and are looking into this further. 

At least it wasn't my now six year old 6700, which has performed well for me over the years.

Keith - AE5XN

Bill -VA3WTB

Good find Keith, that was helpful, see? if we if we keep digging we will find something.

Bill W2PKY

Good to know since I run 8 pans all the time. 

DF1LON Lars

I observed the same behaviour on my Flex6700 with V3. When starting SmartSDR the whole Flex6700 freezes. It even does not send out the broadcast packets anymore. A long press on the power button helps.

I noticed that if I connect another client, e.g. my iPad with just one Slice, and I launch now SmartSDR, it comes up normally without any issue.

73 de Lars
DF1LON

Keith - AE5XN

Lars, Yes, Flex has confirmed there are two ways to get the lock up to occur on a 6700: 1) Have 8 panadapters and slices active with PC Audio enabled, shut down SmartSDR V3.0.19, then restart SmartSDR. 2) Have 8 panadapters and slices active and toggle the PC Audio button on/off. Either scenario will lock up a 6700 with SmartSDR V3.0.19. Work-arounds are to not use PC Audio, use 7 panadapters or less when PC Audio is enabled, or revert to earlier SmartSDR versions. They are looking into a possible fix for future updates. Keith - AE5XN