Version 3 and Contesters and Bugs

[Deleted User]

I have heard that none of the bugs like ANF,NB, or any of the other bugs were fixed in V3. Instead Flex is more concerned with the contesters and MultiFlex than they are with us regular users. This was told to me by a good ham friend of mine already running V3 and under a NDA. Said he noticed no difference in any of the bugs and they are still there.

Don Cunningham

Bill -VA3WTB

AA0KM

Pat N6PAT

Jon_KF2E

Be serious, there is no way Flex is going to give us a clue where they are going in the future. Personally, I won't upgrade to version 3. If something comes out in 3.something that I want, maybe then I will pull the trigger. Otherwise, I will wait for version 4.

Pat N6PAT

I am not talking about "where they are going in the future" . I'm talking about telling us which of the existing and documented bugs they are addressing.

Jon_KF2E

Same thing. They tell nothing about what they are doing next.

Lionel

If the bug fixes will be in V2.5, why wouldn’t they also be in V3. I didn’t think dsp work on the NB et al to be bug fixes, rather performance upgrades. I’d love to see these in V2.5, or V3.

Lionel

Agree. Most of the speculation and apparent user irritation could be reduced with more Flex communications.

Pat N6PAT

And from the recent posts it seems that it's really starting to annoy customers.

Jim K4JAF

Dont hold your breath on this one...  I think these have gone and other more "exotic" projects taken their place. 

Jim K4JAF

Flex doesnt make money on Bug Fixes, only on new versions, thus you know where the programming effort takes place. 

Ted VE3TRQ

This isn't really fair, to say that bug fixes do not impact the bottom line. Of course they do, and any successful company knows this. It's a balancing act of development resources, marketing imperatives, and support resources. It's not easy unless you have unlimited money to pour into the problem, and even then it's no sure thing the right balance will be struck. I've worked for over 40 years in software development of the type Flex is engaged in, for large companies and tiny start-ups. It's really hard to please everyone, and at some point you must put the money where you think your future is - and sometimes it is **** the torpedoes, full speed ahead, as long as you have a good idea where you are going. In all cases, the company that truly cares for its customers is more likely to succeed. Personally, I think Flex cares for its customers.

Pat N6PAT

Money has nothing to do with telling the customers what bugs are being attended to for the next release.

It's not like giving out company secrets that could help a competitor. It's simply keeping current customers up to date as to which bugs are being fixed so customers that already paid $$$ are not left in the dark.

Ted VE3TRQ

That's what release notes are for - to say what bugs have been fixed and what features have been added. And they aren't made public until the product is released - that's why they are called "Release notes". At the last minute something can change, so they are kept back until everything is tied in a bow.

James Whiteway

And Bill thinks I am disruptive to the Community! I am not the only one that feels strongly about these issues. James WD5GWY

Bill -VA3WTB

They will be in the release notes, what benefit would there be to say a few weeks before hand? And some bugs are being finished just before the public release.

Bill -VA3WTB

I'm glad Ted get's it, many times bugs are worked on just before a release. Perhaps that same day. So telling about what bugs are being worked on makes little sense. That is just how it works folks...

Bill -VA3WTB

James,,your feelings have been well noted. I hope your comments in the near future will be more positive ones and the community will benefit.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User]

Don,
Don't hold your breath. The bugs people have been complaining about have been there for years.

bahillen

I have observer the noise reduction conversation for a year and seen the history before that. My engineers have designed analog noise blankers for years in FM radio equipment. (Currently retired) Part of the problem is that calling these problems a bug is not correct and confuses the issues. I don’t believe there is defective software code that prevents removing pulse noise. My Yaesu FT1000MP Mark V has noise reduction and never met my expectations to remove noise. It did remove some specific noise types some times. It wouldn’t remove most pulse noise an operator would observe. My Flex6600 is not much better in that regard. You can set up a lab test and adjust the controls to be very impressive. Simulating the many forms of varieties of noise is almost an art. Think of various causes like lightning, ignition noise, motors, noise from switching transformers, and many more. Add to that the different modes, CW / SSB / DIGITAL / AM / FM. Thirdly, the operator has to have the correct choice of noise tool and proper adjustment. You want Flex engineers to write an equation to mitigate all those factors. Some are critical when the radio doesn’t eliminate it. Also, a software engineer is not an expert at noise simulation and real world noise. You as a station designer have a tool in a flex radio that is the most effective tool in eliminating noise before it gets to your radio. Noise Elimination. It is no different than we use to do in eliminating TVI from our own and neighbors TV. Noisy power transmission lines. It takes work and we all need to get good at it. More LED light bulbs and wall warts. We will never get to being able to push a button and get S1 noise. I have been impressed with the NR noise reduction performance. I am sure there are some radios that have good noise performance for some noise. I am sure Flex will improve noise reduction in more situations and modes and guess what, a new software release will give you that benefit on an older radio. In the mean time clean up the noise you can and share with the community what you did and what worked. Also if you have found current settings that reduce some instances of noise share it with the community. That would be positive contribution and provide the Flex Team with important input for more effective performance. I apologize for being so wordy, but lack of understanding breeds emotion not solutions. This is not a bug. Related to V3, from what I have read addresses an important strategic element that affect the architecture of our stations for the future of every operator not just complex contest stations. 73 Bill W9JJB

K5ROX

If they were well note they would be resolved.

Bob G W1GLV

You don't need a Flex to **** on the airwaves but you need one to win contests.
I think Flex is doing a great job.

Bill -VA3WTB

Steve, James...mentioning over and over again the same things is very disruptive indeed because the comments have already been noted. That is an indication that there are other motives for continuing to do so. If it is to force Flex to move in the direction you want then you will be doing this a long long time. It is not because Flex does not care about your concerns, it is because they have a business to run in witch none of us have anything to with, not our problem. Gerald I'm sure knows that it does not matter what they decide to do their are always unhappy people some were over something.

I think that there is a difference of opinion what a bug is as well. To me the performance of some of the noise mitigation filters are not bugs, but simply functions that could be worked on more to improve them. Not a bug. They are intentional as to how they work, just no working the best at this time.

For most operators WNB is wonderful, it is here for sure. With the great receivers we have with the aid of the AGC-T we can bring most noise down to a good level without any of the other filters on. For Squelch, most simply use FR stacks as an example, problem solved.

Bugs are two types according to Flex. Critical and non critical. A critical bug that effects the performance of the radio is dealt with right away. I recall one release were the RF power slider always moved to 100% on startup, I was the first to report that. Flex made a release with that fix in a week.
And I was the first to report a problem with the record and on air playback function, This is a non critical bug and can wait till the next release to fix it. But some bugs that are just simply annoying ones may take a long time to fix depending on how it fits into the plans.
I really do not know of that many bugs that are outstanding that effects my operation here. May you know of more?

I am not planning to buy v3 either at this time. But I am not going to criticise their work on v3 as it sets Flex apart from everyone else. No one is doing this kind of thing with their radio, and most simply can't. This is ground breaking stuff and it is just the start.
So even though I can't make use of this release so much I give them credit for their work on it. If you stop and think about what can be done with this v3 and it is just a start, it is really amazing stuff, really look at it.

Steve you are very correct that there is outstanding things in SSDR that we have been waiting for a long time, and who knows maybe they never will?
But they run things at Flex, we don't, I have some things I want done as well but either way I'm happy with the performance of my radio, I still have not seen anything I would move to at this time. My 6500 just works so well. Even with some things that could be improved I like the many things it does really well.

And Steve I have seen you take the time to help others on the community with some good advice. And you have lots to offer people. I have seen most every one do it as well. It would be nice if we could spend more of our time helping then complaining about old things that have been noted and logged already. Unless the motive is to stire up the community and try to make Flex look bad for some reason. With cheap shots.

We all have want's from this tiny little company and some make demands. but Flex makes choices of what to do, that's up to them. I suggest pulling back on the demands and decending remarks and enjoy our radios.

I am not saying we should not hold Flex accountable and keep reminding them they still have customers, but there is a line from being helpful to the overall picture and simply badgering.

If I was to snip and past all the things you guys said over the year and put them in one place were it's easy to read them all,,what would we see? What would the trend be?

If you guys think you are doing the community a great service and your saving the day in what your saying almost every day, then keep it up. And I'm not saying your wrong, but what is the end game?
I really don't care, I have no skin in the game here and it is not my business or place to tell you anything else.

KY6LA_Howard

@Bill Thank you for explaining far more eloquently than I did that not meeting some people’s expectation on features like NB, ANF and Squelch are NOT BUGS but rather they are future features enchancement requests.

Steve G1XOW

To paraphrase: Your repeated criticism is disruptive so why keep on?    Simple Bill, because many many customers keep complaining about problems and basic features that are far from perfect yet nothing has been done to address their concerns for years!

Al_NN4ZZ

Bill -VA3WTB

AI thank you, for many that have been here a long time knows what I mean, it is not only a comment being repeated, it is the sarcasm and dissension in the comments that follows,,sending up red flags?

Jim K4JAF