SDR Ver 3

fkf

I bought my Flex at August, 20th. V2 with $199 was included. Up to now I paid $1,12 each day and I have to pay additional $199 for V 3. That's annoying.
73 de DJ6CF, Friedrich

KY6LA_Howard

By the time its finally released, your cost per day will be less

What's annoying about getting new features?
You have the option not to buy them..


To get new features with Elecraft, Icom, Yaesu or Kenwood, you would have to buy an entirely new radio costing you a lot more than USD $199

fkf

Tnx for your comment and I can go a little bit with you. The difference is, that we are talking about software and that is a different business. Normally you get upgrades which are much more cheaper than the original license. Buying new hardware (Icom, Kenwood, etc.) means that you have new TRX with new components in it.

73 de DJ6CF, Friedrich

KY6LA_Howard

Let me give you a different perspective.

Flex makes Software Defined Radios.
The radio is the software

Open your Flex radio up and you will find many less components that a traditional Legacy Radio. 

On a $5,000 Flex Radio, the actual hardware cost is likely much less than $2,500
and the software cost is likely much more than $2,500

So a $199 upgrade is a bargain

fkf

Hi, 
here you will find my last response because I don't want to open an endless discussion. I accept that you have another point of view. That is ok.
My point of view is, that the software is not the radio itself, but it defines the possibilities of the radio. Without the radio the software is rather useless.
$199 are not an upgrade but the normal price each newcomer has to pay. Therefore there is no advantage for existing customers.

73 de DJ6CF, Friedrich

Mike

Yes but will it be going in the direction you want?

Burt Fisher

Howard the others like Elecraft sell a radio that is done and in most cases have more features, further unlike Flex they don't come out with updates that damaged features that previously worked. I wonder if Samsung will come out with a  software upgrade that lets me watch my friends TV who has more channels. As far your diversity argument there is a web receiver I can use that a ham has posted but how many hams really care about diversity?

Oxford English

John - K3MA

John - K3MA

Tim.  The real issue is that people object to the fact that the small worms in Version 1 have 20/20 vision and everyone knows that worms are all blind.  But now in Version 3 Flex may have fixed that problem and have a change that makes all the small worms blind like they should have been but you need to pay for the snakes in order to get your worms to be blind like every other worm.  Some people do not like snakes and have the reasonable expectation that their small worms should have been blind from the start and object to having to pay to get it corrected.

WA2SQQ

Ed Johnson

Has Flex ever considered a simple annual software registration fee... say $50 per year?  This would include all updates that year.  Many companies do this and it provides a constant revenue stream and more people will stay current reducing support time and expense for Flex.

Terry K8EET

Great post. Mirrorless cameras, electric cars, SDR radio all on the leading edge of technology. Less expensive to build...true as a consumer you pay to be on the leading edge but you are supporting the development. If you don't want to be on the edge of this technology, there's a good market for your radio. Sell it and go back to those wonderful legacy radios. 

Asher - K0AU

Steven WA8Y

I very much look forward to v2.5, bug free, if possible. For now I like v2.3.9 but was hoping for more free upgrades to version 2.

Bill -VA3WTB

yes V1.9.13 was the bug fixes for v1 as it turned over to v2, so yes there was a bug fix for v1

KC8P

Guys, nothing is perfect, one of primary business goals is to make a profit. The armature radio is a niche market. I can't even imagine how FRS can exist, innovate, pay and retain employees, it could be tough....on consumer side we have always choice to select different product to satisfy our needs and requirements.

Michael Coslo

Not a bad idea Ed, but to my way of thinking, Windows updates are the main problem for SSDR users.  And I've been here a few years, I suspect that would cause more complaints, not less.

Michael Coslo

John, are you calling firmware updates the same thing as new versions of SSDR?  Anyhow, I recently updated our KPA-1500s with new firmware. That was to keep the amps from blowing themselves up on 160 meters. And did Icom take care of that screen burn in problem yet?

Note - I'm responsible for a 7610, a K3S system, and multiple KPA-1500's, and my experience is that there is no real relation to their updates and SSDR or DogPark updates. Can't speak to iOS SSDR. 

I do like all of the radios though. 

Michael Coslo

Somewhere back in here someone told me that the ANF won't work on tuner uppers. That beats me. I've used it on tuner uppers, I've used it on CW ops operating on a voice QSO,  I used it on heterodynes on 40 meters, last night in an attempt to figure out what exactly I'm doing wrong that makes it work for me, I tried notching out a RTTY signal. I did have to up the slider to "3" from 1 or 2, but it silenced both sides of the RTTY. Probably would be pretty tough on a voice signal.  Anyhow, I'll just concede I'm doing something wrong.  8^)

Thing that is funny is that until people started complaining about it, I never used it - I'd always right clicked the spot of a tuner-upper, and enabled a TNF. Now it's another tool in the arsenal.

What I think Flex might do is not have such a large range of adjustment, because I thiink people naturally try to set things in the middle to start. And that's way too high for the ANF.

- 73 N3LI - 

Michael Coslo

Somewhere back in here someone told me that the ANF won't work on tuner uppers. That beats me. I've used it on tuner uppers, I've used it on CW ops operating on a voice QSO,  I used it on heterodynes on 40 meters, last night in an attempt to figure out what exactly I'm doing wrong that makes it work for me, I tried notching out a RTTY signal. I did have to up the slider to "3" from 1 or 2, but it silenced both sides of the RTTY. Probably would be pretty tough on a voice signal.  Anyhow, I'll just concede I'm doing something wrong.  8^)

Thing that is funny is that until people started complaining about it, I never used it - I'd always right clicked the spot of a tuner-upper, and enabled a TNF. Now it's another tool in the arsenal.

What I think Flex might do is not have such a large range of adjustment, because I thiink people naturally try to set things in the middle to start. And that's way too high for the ANF.

- 73 N3LI - 

Michael Coslo

Don, I'll ask you the question - Why would you pay money for a feature you will never use? You don't have to buy anything.  You do know that the radio doesn't stop working, so if you are happy with what is on your computer so far, you're golden. $199 American, whateve the exchange rate is Canadian. 

HCampbell WB4IVF

Exactly Mike.  ICOM makes fine radios (I own 3 of them). And in my opinion, their NR/NB is second to none!  But feature updates??  Give me a break!  (-:

Michael Coslo

Michael Coslo

As a person blessed with exposure to a lot of different radios, and the chance to operate them enough to get a good handle on them, every radio out there has issues. Many of these problems are not even acknowledged as problems. 

The IC7610, which people in here threaten to buy because of reasons - well, if an update is interrupted, you have a brick that needs shipped back to the factory.

My KPA-1500's, which are wonderful amps,  had a problem that would brick the amps and took an emergency firmware update. 

Regardless, I have never seen a radio company with as good service as FlexRadio Systems. 

Michael Coslo

Well put. And Flex is doing a great job of competing. Between say a Flex Signature series and what many consider to be their main SDR rival, the Icom 7610, well, my modest 6300 is many times the radio that the 7610 is, and that's based on personal experience. 

If I were to look at the biggest threat to Flex, it is the platform for SSDR. Windows 10 updates are harmful, and reduce uptime. It garners a bad rep for Flex.

Kevin

What you say makes some good sense. I'm also a product manager but my product is subscription based. That means besides being concerned about getting new customers we must keep existing customers satisfied to ensure their renewals. Competition is very stiff so there's no sitting on our past victories. People are used to quick (agile? yuck) innovation.

How does repeat business fit in with the camera model? You do very specific things so that when someone is ready to upgrade they buy another model of your camera instead of one from the competitor. What kind of things do you do to entice them; innovate within their price point or add features that have limited use? How do you talk to your current customers?

Personally, I think flex is not anywhere near as mature as your camera company. I think they are more in the Elon Musk arena doing cool stuff but maybe not making the best business decisions. And I think that's maybe a good thing for as long as it lasts. They have contributed to the state of the art. My prediction, sorry about this, is that for Flex to actually grow and become a major player it will take a buyout. In the ham radio market, that's not a likely prospect. Can you possibly imagine purchasing an MFJ-6700? Maybe an IC-6700? How about a Heath HW-6700? Man!

I disagree with a lot of what Flex is doing. Then I turn on the radio and the world changes. It's weird. I know. 

Kev
K4VD

WA2SQQ

Jimmy Collis

Your right No decision any company makes will satisfy everyone. But I think it should satisfy the Majority

James Whiteway

Amateur radio is not FRS's only source of income.