smart sdr version 3

KC8P

Agree, would be good to know what they plan for near future....my best guess is a major release every year ($199) and 4-5 updates per year. This would be a reasonable plan from business point of view...software development is expensive, single developer salary with experience is an average +100k per year...  

Bill -VA3WTB

Pat, sorry you missed my point, it would be more complicated then you think. But I have a good idea. don't buy V3 untill you see something you think you would like. but in doing so you miss all the performance upgrades. If it is only features your looking at then don't buy it, wait for V4.

Flex will never forcast what is all in every update. But we can read the release notes when they come out...

Pat N6PAT

Bill,

It is you who's missing my point repeatedly so I will say it again.

A free trial would allow ME to see if the new release is right for ME. Forget how it works for others who may have completely different computer configurations and operating methods that don't apply to ME.

In other words, I want to see how the new release works for ME. I don't care how it works for others because that doesn't help ME. Version 2.4.9 has issues that I've experienced but not all ops have experienced the same issue. I would like to know if those issues are still present in a new release BEFORE I pay $199. I can only determine that by actually using the software and not by reading comments from other users.

What is so difficult or unusual in providing a free trial period? That's standard practice for most software packages that you can purchase.

That is my question: Why doesn't FRS provide free trials of new releases?

Bill -VA3WTB

Pat, the reason is, we don't pay per update, we only pay for a complete version. Each version may have as many as 4 updates.

Pat N6PAT

Bill,

I'm starting to think that you are intentionally avoiding my question so I will be as clear as possible:

For the next COMPLETE VERSION i.e. version 3, why doesn't FRS provide a free trial period so we see if we really want it or not?

I am NOT talking about updates in any way , shape or form. I am talking about NEW VERSIONS that we are charged for.

James Whiteway

Pat, the reason Bill avoids your question is simple, he doesn't work for FRS so he doesn't know the answer. Like everthing else here, it's all conjecture and speculation. Only FRS personnel can give you an answer. And even then, it may not be accurate. I know that one from experience. I had FRS's top engineer tell me at HAMCOM last Spring that the ANF issue would be fixed in v2.4.x. It wasn't. So, no one knows answers. Not a good answer for you, but, that's as accurate an answer as you are likely to get. James WD5GWY

Bill -VA3WTB

True, I do not work for Flex. but keep in mind anything I say is always from past statements from Flex,,not my own unless I say they are.

Pat I have tryed to answer you.
It would not be possible to try a complete version as a trial. It takes a year or two to complete a version. You continue to seperate a version from updates and you can't. Each update is a building block to completing a version.

James, there is no reason Flex should comment on this post. They have already answered all your questions regarding basic features, Gerald answered this himself. The answer was and still is I beleive They are planned. But no dates.

The other thing is, Even Flex Radio does not always know what will be in a version. This is what meetings each week are for, to talk about what can be put into a version and what has to be held back, this depends on a lot of things.

Bill -VA3WTB

KC8P, we have little idea what is going on in Flex Radio, they have weekly meetings to discuss all this. but Gerald has given us some insight as to what goes on and how they decide things.
Because of the resources needed I think they are busy working on the lose ends of V2. But we do know one thing planned for V3, that is multi client. That is a ham radio game changer yet again and a huge project.

I don't think V2 is done yet, one more update? two more? who knows, but don't go anywhere...  I think in a few weeks we may see something.

Rich McCabe

Why is mutli-client a game changer?  Maybe I don't understand the benefits of it.  I know I wanted it when I had M radios but now that I have reverted to a non M 6600 what is the benefit?

Rich

Bill -VA3WTB

Rich, we don't have all the details yet about what it looks like. but it will allow more than one user to log into your radio at one time. Will it be 4 people? 2 people? and just how will it work?
It would be a game changer being the only radio that can do that. As simple as it will be. I share my radio with someone that is a elderly ham radio shut in. He is et up with a laptop and he simply logs into my radio 2 times a week and uses it. But I can't log in with him, with multi client I will be able to.

This would be great for clubs that wish to share the radio with multible club members as an example.

Rich McCabe

Thank you Bill for a response.  OK got it.  So would be a game changer for a small fraction of users.

I could see the benefit when I had the 6600m because it was either front panel or SSDR,  I always thought it would be nice to see something on the M radio when using the software or at minimum be able to use the tuning know

Bill -VA3WTB

Rich, what your saying may be part of it as well, we just don't know. For a mouse or tuning knob it has to be connected on the computer side. For now there is just to many things we don't know, and we don't know how many people will take advantage of it. As we all know,,complete station integration is what Flex is about. This is one more step towards it.

James Whiteway

I was hoping for multi client so that my app would have full access to the SSDR UI (waterfall etc) and other other panadapters. My original idea (break apart windows for each panadapter spread across multiple monitors) has since been implimented in SSDR itself. While mine works, it's better such a feature is integrated into the main program. So, I hope some of my other ideas get the same treatment. I plan to work on a version of ANF since there are other developers here sharing ways to handle the audio stream in a separate app. It won't help SSDR's onboard audio DSP but it will fix the current problem outboard of SSDR. Being able to code for my radio is the main reason I keep it. James WD5GWY

Bill -VA3WTB

You are taping into a lot of power James. I don't do code. I will keep my radio out of sheer performance, not to mention the best panadapter in radio.

Rich McCabe

James unfortunately all the stuff you want to do would be better handled by the API if they would allow it and not by multi-client? Seems like your vision to use multi-client is just a way to make it work?  Or would that actually be the preferred method?

Matt NQ6N

I look forward to every software update, and I think Flex is taking the right approach by charging for significant software updates.  

Of course I don't have an unlimited budget, but a few hundred dollars a year is a very small price to pay for Flex maintaining a team of experienced engineers to improve and enhance the software every day.  Such fees are the best value in dollars per dB that I've found for my shack.

Flex seems to be talking some of the harder software engineering problems on the overall wish list, which I think speaks well of the level of ambition and commitment to making the 6000 series platform the best overall value for a lot of different amateur purposes. 

One reason I opted for a 6600 was to avoid having to buy two RemoteRig pairs for remote SO2R. This was a savings of over $1K and it's due to the software engineering efforts of the Flex team. 

Since I took delivery of my 6600 there have been improvements released to SmartLink which make it noticeably more reliable amid packet loss than the VPN method. 

Flex seems to be focusing on software updates that enhance the overall value proposition of the 6000 series in the ways that best leverage the hardware's unique strengths. 

I'm sure that the many other minor refinements will come over time, and I look forward to using the API to build some of the items on my wish list as time permits. 

73,
Matt NQ6N

James Whiteway

Personally, what I have been doing with my app's UI was what I felt would be a good thing to have in SSDR. Fortunately, they implemented that feature in v2.x. So an outboard app to handle additional panadapters spread across multiple monitors, is no longer needed. Before it became a feature in SSDR, my app would have needed multi client to work alongside SSDR.
I'm sure my idea of an outboard ANF will eventually suffer the same fate. Hopefully, sooner than later! :-) As for handling it via the API, yes it would be a cleaner solution. No need to process the audio thru an outboard computer's audio system.

James
WD5GWY

Rich McCabe

So take one for the team James and develop that outboard ANF so they can immediately release theirs. Since you are the team captain on the naughty list, I know you can get it done.

James Whiteway

:-) Thanks for your support there Rich!

Steve-N5AC

We're always working on new software so there shouldn't be any real surprise in that piece of information.  In the past, we've run the spectrum of announcing well in advance what we're working on through not making any public comment until the software is complete.  Announcing what we're working on doesn't really affect when we'll be done working on it, but it has caused issues in that it immediately generates the "when" question and depending on the nature of the software, when is not always an easy question to answer.  Nevertheless, we've often also provided a best guess to when, which has also come back to bite us if we're not done in the timeframe which was provided with the best intentions.  

The inclination, then, is to not discuss what or when until we're virtually complete with anything we happen to be working on.  At this point, when we have a good picture of the release schedule, we'll typically communicate to let everyone know what's coming up.  This allows preparation time for any new features you might like to take advantage of that require preparation also.  Not communicating earlier is a little painful for everyone involved because 1) we all like to talk about what we're doing, certainly to like-minded folks like yourselves that have an interest in what we're doing, and 2) for the most part you guys like to hear what we're up to.  Our current policy is not to communicate about what we're working on while we're in the middle of things, deferring instead until we're about finished and the full picture of what we've accomplished is clear and worthy of specific communications.  In short, thanks for your patience, stay tuned and we'll post publicly as soon as we can!

Douglas Maxwell

Hopefully they will fix PTT for CW before we all go deaf. I’m embarrassed to demo the Flex to anyone in its current state.

Pat N6PAT

Steve,

Why doesn't Flex allow a trial period for new releases so I can decide before i buy it if I want to upgrade to the release?

This is standard practice for most software packages. I see no reason why this is not done for new Flex releases

George KF2T

Pat, not speaking for Flex, but I’d imagine for two reasons: 1) upgrading “software” also upgrades radio firmware. Changing one radio’s firmware will affect how it operates in your system, including remote, DAX, CAT, other clients, loggers, etc. I would absolutely not want to be the guy taking calls about how version 3 “breaks” something, or “forces” updates elsewhere. And you know people would be mightily full of righteous fury over it. 2) Flex is a business operated by the model the owners select. Free trials aren’t what they choose.

Pat N6PAT

See, that's the problem. You don't speak for Flex. That's why I directed my question to Steve.

I am well aware that a new version alters the radio firmware. I am also aware that you can downgrade at any time. I've done it several times.

A free trial with an expiration date would allow an op to try before they buy. When the date expires they would either buy the new version or have to revert back to the original version in order to operate again. What's so hard about that?

I use Windows 8.1 and I don't know if Flex tests new releases on just Windows 10 or all versions of Windows that SSDR will run on. I've asked that question at least 4 times with no response. Therefore, I cannot be certain that a new release will function properly for me and I would hate to spend $199 and find out that it doesn't because I don't use Windows 10. A free trial would answer that.

Now do you see my point?

George KF2T

I believe your point has been made clearly to the participants in this thread, Pat. It’s a valid question you have. Unfortunately, Flex isn’t going to answer you right now. Their corporate policy is not to, and having been around FRS rigs for almost a decade, I do see the wisdom of it.

I understand your desire to confirm proper operation before committing to a substantial purchase. That’s completely reasonable. My point is it would likely be difficult to actually run a business supporting all the ill-informed lookie-loos and multiple upgrade/downgrade cycles that a free offering could entail. From a business perspective, if it were my business, I would do as FRS Is doing, and provide the same level of excellent release notes and manuals that we have seen. That way, users can intelligently evaluate their unique circumstances and make informed choices. I know it’s somewhat naive to expect people to read the manuals and other documents, but that really is (in my opinion) the right approach.

All the best for the holidays to you and yours, and when the new software comes, I hope it works very well indeed for you.

Jimmy Collis

The way I see it if someone is satisfied with the way there flex is operating and don't want new features as an upgrade don't buy

James Whiteway

Which you don't have to do. What George has said makes sense to me. It certainly won't make everyone happy. But, given Steve's statement above, it pretty well explains their current policy. It's frustrating, but it's FRS's game. So, they get to call all the shots. We as customers simply have to decide if we want to accept that or not. James WD5GWY

Jay Nation

I do feel that there's a SmartSDR upgrade in the works. I always feel that way. Which is why I own a Flexradio. I like things that can get better over time, as opposed to those that can't. My vintage 2014 FLEX6500 is still maturing, as are all the 6000 series Flexradios. We just ain't seen nothing yet. But, I think we will. 

    #FlexRadio IRC chat

For real-time discussions

        SDRgadgets

User-created documentation.
           Volunteer!!

         73, Jay - NO5J

Bill -VA3WTB

I still do not understand how on earth can you try SSDR before it is completed, and is still being worked on? so if it takes one year or two years to complete, when would you test drive it.

The software Pat is talking about that you can try out before buying it is finished software, so when you try it you can use all the things the software can do.

When I test drive a car, it is complete, finished.
Not so with SSDR, when Flex is working on a version, when do you try it out?
When they are finished with it? a year later?

EA4GLI

I find the features on v2 didn't justify the price so I will not buy v3 or any other piece of software from Flex until... Well definitely not on launch date.... Maybe never. I was afraid of this... You don't tell us what a new version will bring due to your no communication policy and we have to spend the money based on faith or conjecture of what might or not be on the new version. I am done with this model. V2 didn't offer what I wanted and I bought it hoping that it would. I will not fund this approach. Which eventually leads to a subscription model. Not my cup of tea. I have a defective device ( constantly charging so it doesn't die, glorified dell tablet), Maestro V1, because I was an early adopter . I have spent thousands on Flex equipment to pretty much have the same functionality I had 3 years ago. And V2 brought remote with some of the worst latency numbers you can imagine. I can't use it for anything more than a gimmick , and I rely on remoterig for my remote needs. Good luck Flex but you just lost a loyal customer. I will use my flex 6700 until something else comes along that appeals to me... But that something else will most certainly not be FRS gear.