6600 (non M) wont boot

Rich McCabe

Jay, I am a Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer. I don't claim to know everything but I have the network basics covered

I shut down all ports except the shack and turned off the wireless. Basically the only thing left on the network is the Shack PC and the Flex 6600. Still have the problem.

Just for the heck of it I am going to swap the cable modem/router but I am leaning towards a flex issue. I have one in stock but just having had time to call the cable company and provision the new modem.

Mark WS7M

Wow Rich,

Your network setup looks so clean...  Mine always look more like a few rats decided to have some fun with some cables.  sigh...

Rich McCabe

Well being in the business helps!

Mark WS7M

Yeah... I'm a developer so by very nature we are sloppy!   LOL

Joe N3HEE

Rich, I assume you power cycled your router/switching gear?  Without having access to logging or packet capture on either the radio or your network gear this will be difficult to troubleshoot.  For some reason the radio cannot contact a DHCP server and is self assigning an IP address.  I would find it unlikely this is a hardware issue since the radio functions when given a static IP.  Perhaps a firmware issue on the Flex?  Maybe it is not able to clear its DHCP cache or renew a previous DHCP lease?  Perhaps a network driver got corupted on the Flex ?  Very interesting issue though.  I deal with these kinds of issues allot in my job.  Keep us posted when you swap out your cable modem. 

Rich McCabe

Yes, I have power cycled it a couple times.  It would agree it seems likely its not hardware but that is not what Flex has said so far. Tim told me if the radio cant get an IP address it will assign the 169 address and boot anyway. It should not do the triple red flash.

As far as the DHCP lease "cache" that should not be an issue either because I redefined the scope and moved it up so now its pulling a new range of IPs.

Joe N3HEE

I was talking about the DHCP lease/cache on the client (radio) side.  Yes, an operating system should be able to self assign an IP address and function if it cant get a DHCP address.  However, it wont be able to communicate over the network with that address because that address will most likely be in a different subnet.

The new release 2.4.9 may have a fix for you ?

#6615 6400M/6600M: Fixed an issue that could cause the radio to not boot up properly (3 red blinks)

Rich McCabe

Did not know there was a 2.4.9.

I have downgraded, upgraded and did a hardware reset. So would not expect any cache on radio side.

Thanks for the 2.4.9 info. On my way!

Rich McCabe

Well the 2.4.9 did not help. Still triple reds on DHCP.

But I like the new multi-color S meter!

Rich McCabe

Just as a follow up I have swapped out the router/modem with an identical model and thought it was fixed but after a half dozen boots it was back to not booting on DHCP randomly.

To summarize, I installed another network switch and new router and had nothing else hooked up to switch and the wireless disabled. So basically the network consisted of the shack PC, Flex 6600, Router/Modem and a basic network switch all hard wired.  I still had the same no boot issues on the 6600.

I did enable the DHCP server on a Cisco router I have as a test and the Flex booted without issues a dozen times using DHCP device.

Tim did tell me that they do have some issues with DHCP on routers provided by AT&T. I am not using AT&T but not ruling out a similar issue.

My router is about 4 months old and has worked perfectly until last weekend.

I am using/tested 12 DHCP devices since that time and with the exception of the Flex they all get an IP address without issue.

I have no issue running a static IP and actually prefer it.  But just would like to know if the radio is OK.

Regardless, I think Flex needs to review their design as not getting an IP address on the network should not result in a no boot warning on the radio where they ask you to send the radio back for repair.

Joe N3HEE

So the radio works using DHCP if you use the Cisco router as DHCP server ? 

Joe N3HEE

Do you have the ability to do packet capture on your network ? 

Rich McCabe

Yes boots fine on the Cisco Router DHCP. And yes I have the ability of capture packets and have sent Tim a wire shark file with the 6600 trying to get an IP address.

Bill -VA3WTB

Why should it not boot without a lan connection?

Rich McCabe

It should and does boot without a LAN connection. It will not boot with this particular Motorola router connected.

Bill -VA3WTB

Ok, so everything is fine then?

Rich McCabe

As long as I set it to static IP.  But it wont boot using DHCP on my setup.

Joe N3HEE

Gee Rich, I wont be able to sleep until this puzzle is solved !  I'm a network engineer and love troubleshooting these kind of issues.  I do allot of troubleshooting at work. 

Did the packet caputure show the radio making a DHCP discovery request to Motorola router ?  Did you see Motorola router respond with DHCP offer ? 

Rich McCabe

I have not looked at it in detail yet but the Flex did make the request.  Things from there did not seem to be typical.  I have been planning on doing it again to get a cleaner capture but have not had time.  The last one I ran was pretty "busy" after shutting down a few ports.  I will be happy to send you the current wire shark file if you want to view it.

The thing that is most bizarre is the radios response. In my mind it should either get an IP address from the DHCP server scope or the fallback 169 address. The three red blink light is not acceptable.

Joe N3HEE

Sure, please send me the packet capture.  I'll take a look.  Use email address on my QRZ page.  List the IP's of your radio and router.  Thanks.

Sterling, AK1K

I wanted to follow-up on a comment that I had made near the beginning of this thread.  I just received my radio back today from Flex and it now seems to be working fine.  The diagnosis was "Corrupted S/D Card", though there was no indication of what could have caused the corruption.

I am satisfied with the way they dealt with the problem.  I think they really did want to "make it right".  It was 3 days to transport back there, 2 days in their shop, and 3 days to get it back here, all at no cost to me.  I think that this is a reasonable timeline for dealing with the problem.  So, thanks to the Flex Service department, though, hopefully, I won't need to deal with them again any time soon.

Bill -VA3WTB

I don't know,,but I suspect the SD card failed. Long time ago somone ask what type of  SD card is used. Steve said it is not a card we buy in a store, it is a commercial made card to servive a lot of re writes. I think maybe they got some cards not to standards.

Russ Ravella

Yeah, I've had an excellent experience with Flex customer service in response to my boot failure issue as well.  I had some "issues" with my Maestro too and Flex couldn't have been more helpful with them (both boiled down to things on my side of the fence). 

As for the failure, I wonder if mine was an S/D card as well.  Since the thing is essentially a giant purpose-built computer system nearly any hardware failure could result in a boot problem.  If there is a new h/w issue causing the few of these that have happened, a bum S/D card is a less ominous root cause than other possibilities.

Could a corrupted S/D card be causing Rich's problem?  I don't know where in the design the S/D card is in Flex radios...  Is it user replaceable?

Russ Ravella

Me too - outstanding customer service.

Rich McCabe

Russ,  I really don't think so. Mine boots fine with a static IP address but does not seem to like my brand of Motorola modem/router which I have tried two. It is hit or miss and I could not get it to fail last night running DHCP. 

I also am suspect of the thermostat in my house trying to respond to DHCP request but not sure. 

Regardless as I said above Flex needs to relook there DHCP process because I dont feel the radio should not boot because of DHCP.

Bill -VA3WTB

Rich has been able to make his radio boot, if it were an SD card coruption the radio would never boot.
The card is servicable in the feild. Flex has sent a few out to customers already with instructions.

Russ Ravella

****, it would have been a nice relatively easy fix.  I wonder what could be "special" about your Motorola that isn't showing up all over the place (if it's true that it isn't - I think it is??).  You might think others are using it too?  Anyway, I hope you get it resolved soon somehow.  There's nothing more frustrating that slogging through this kind of stuff instead of USING the hardware!

Thanks for the info that the card is field serviceable Bill.  At least for those with that form of the problem there's hope the round trip time can be avoided!

N8SDR

Rich- I'll ask again since I never saw a response when I suggested adding the Static IP, what model Motorola router is this, I have seen several of the MG series with high packet failures and other issues.Could you please share which models(s) you have been using. 

Rich McCabe

Yes, its a MG7315.

The replacement I put inline to test was the same model. I have not had any obvious issues with it but have only been running it for about 3 or 4 months. I will say performance was better than anything else I have had at the house.

N8SDR

Rich, can I make a suggestion, replace the router, that is one that has had many reports of having bad packet losses, and all kinds of connectivity issues with a lot of devices, tablets, phones etc-Now I guess they can add Flex to the list as well.  I also seem to think that was one with the bad BufferBloat - which if yo plan to run your flex remotely will cause you issues as well.