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If I order a PowerGenius XL now, will it include the automatic antenna tuner? It's going to be this

WA4FOM
WA4FOM Member ✭✭
If I order a PowerGenius XL now, will it include the automatic antenna tuner? It's pretty much going to be this one or the Elecraft KPA1500.
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Answers

  • Matt (K0KB)
    Matt (K0KB) Member ✭✭
    edited October 2018
    No
  • WA4FOM
    WA4FOM Member ✭✭
    edited November 2019
    Thanks for the intel.  KPA1500 it is, then.
  • Rich McCabe
    Rich McCabe Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 2020
    The PGXL is really in a different class. Not saying its better, but just has some additional functionality. If the KPA1500 meets your needs then it should be a fine amp and Elecraft is a great company.

    I would love a power genius but I really don't need/want that much power and the price is out of my league.  I am currently amp shopping for something in the 600-1000 watt range that auto band switches. This will replace my trusty Hercules II. 


  • KC2QMA_John
    KC2QMA_John Member ✭✭
    edited March 2018

    Rich the Ameritron ALS-606 @ $2000 and 1306 @ $3300 are very nice amps with good specs for a very reasonable price. And they are Made In U.S.A.

    http://www.ameritron.com/Product.php?productid=ALS-606S

    http://www.ameritron.com/Product.php?productid=ALS-1306




    As a side note since it has taken much longer to get the PGXL out than was told maybe as a courtesy to their customers FRS could extend the Antenna Genius offer? I mean to me I just seems like the right thing to do, after all the amp cost $7000!
  • Rich McCabe
    Rich McCabe Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 2018
    John, I have a hard time spending significant money on anything MFJ is associated with. Just cant do it :)

    At this point the three I am looking at are the Acom 600s (the 1200 seems to have issues), Palstar and the Expert 1.3.   Just not sure.

    I agree about your tuner comment. Would be a nice if Flex would extend the offer.

  • Ria
    Ria Member ✭✭
    edited March 2018
    Did you talk to sales at all? I think it's worth a shot sending them an email or calling them. The worst they can do is say no. 
  • Ria
    Ria Member ✭✭
    edited March 2018
    For that price I would get an SPE 1.3K-FA or 1.5K-FA. In fact if you want one I may know someone who has one to sell. I had one and it's a fairly decent amp. Won't do full duty cycle RTTY but it's just fine for SSB and CW. And it has a built in ATU. 
  • Rich McCabe
    Rich McCabe Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 2018
    I think the 1.5 is out of my price league.  So is the one that might be for sale a 1.3 or 1.5?
  • KC2QMA_John
    KC2QMA_John Member ✭✭
    edited March 2018

    Yeah I understand about MFJ definitely not in the same class as the Expert, Elecraft but affordable.

    The Ameritron division is better than the MFJ line better QC, also MFJ has great customer service. I know 4 people with the 1306 and none of them have had any trouble and they all say they love these amps.

  • WW1SS - Steve
    WW1SS - Steve Member ✭✭
    edited March 2018
    The Acom 600 is a mighty nice amp. Had one. I upgraded to an Acom 1000. I don't mind tuning it.
  • Rich McCabe
    Rich McCabe Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 2018
    Well the 600s has been under redesign since December and has started shipping to Europe and has not shipped to US yet.
  • Ria
    Ria Member ✭✭
    edited March 2018
    I think the 1.5 is out of my price league.  So is the one that might be for sale a 1.3 or 1.5?
    It's a 1.3. 
    The Ameritron division is better than the MFJ line better QC, also MFJ has great customer service. I know 4 people with the 1306 and none of them have had any trouble and they all say they love these amps.
    The problem for me with it is that it uses the older tech standard RF MOSFETs. If I were buying today I would want LDMOS for ruggedness. It's the same reason I would not buy a SPE 2K-FA or Icom PW1.
  • Rich McCabe
    Rich McCabe Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 2018
    If you don't mind, check and see if they are interested. Must be non smoking and excellent condition.

    Email good on QRZ.

    Thanks Ria

    Rich

  • KC2QMA_John
    KC2QMA_John Member ✭✭
    edited March 2018
    The good news is it's just a matter of a few years and all HF amps will be LDMOS and the prices will drop BIG Time!

    Currently the LDMOS chips are running around $250!
  • Ria
    Ria Member ✭✭
    edited March 2018
    I don't think the chip itself is the problem. The problem is the level of engineering required around the chips. I think we will see some price drop but we won't see Ameritron prices just yet. They can build cheap because they can build simple. The W8JI design amps are simple, cheap and reliable if used conservatively. 
  • KC2QMA_John
    KC2QMA_John Member ✭✭
    edited November 2019

     Say what you will but it does not cost $7K to make a LDMOS amp even with R&D unless you are just making one amp! But it’s new technology in the amateur market and anything new and cutting edge is going to cost more.

    In the past what generally made amplifiers expensive is the Finals. Just like any new technology it’s starts out expensive and as the technology hits market saturation the price drops.


    Remember how much these things cost when they were new, VCR, Compact Disc, Home PC, Flat screen TV’s ect..
  • Ria
    Ria Member ✭✭
    edited March 2018
    Sure. It doesn't cost 7k to make a legal limit LDMOS amp. You can buy one for $4000 today. But the PG XL and KPA1500 are not in the same class as some of the others. These are heavy duty, contest grade amps.The same with tube amps. You can buy an Ameritron legal limit tube amp for $3000, or you can buy an Alpha or Acom for $7000 and you'll find that power users gravitate toward the Alpha and Acom. So yes, in the future you can probably buy a cheaper LDMOS amp, but it won't be the same league as a PG XL, KPA1500 or whatever other high end mfg comes out with. But if that doesn't matter to you then by all means. 
  • k0eoo
    k0eoo Member ✭✭
    edited March 2018
    the KPA1500 is a single LDMOS like the Expert 1.3kFA, whereas the PGXL runs 2 and has other circuits to improve the duty cycle power out.  No other SS amp can match its duty cycle for CW, RTTY and other digital modes....  you get what you pay for...
  • Ria
    Ria Member ✭✭
    edited August 2018
    KPA1500 is dual LDMOS, 2xBLF188XR

    What PG XL does have (as you said) is MEffA and the cooling system with vapor chamber. I have run it all day every day for a whole week at full power high duty cycle without issue.
  • WA4FOM
    WA4FOM Member ✭✭
    edited March 2018
    No, I didn't.  I have to admit my Spidey Sense is tingling a bit on this one.  Why stop selling the amp with a tuner?  I'd be a little nervous about being one of relatively few people having the amp with a "limited edition" tuner in it.  I hope Flex will be able to internally justify long-term support for it along with the amp.  I dare say that the lack of a tuner may be the "tipping point" for a lot of people that will get them to look elsewhere.  It is for me.  In Flex's defense, I did have a serious problem with my 6700 (which they never could fix) and they did the right thing in the end, which was to send me a new rig for $0.00, so mega-kudos to them for their customer support.  I will probably heave my money into better antennas and wait for the LDMOS technology to get cheaper, and let my little KPA500 (500 watts) and the KAT500 boost my 6700 for now and get me out of the (RF) Black Hole of Bayonne.
  • Rich McCabe
    Rich McCabe Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 2018
    As far as I know they are external and who said they were going to stop selling them?  Not limited edition. Just an introductory offer to include the tuner to the early purchasers.
  • Ria
    Ria Member ✭✭
    edited March 2018
    I agree with Rich here - the tuner is separate as it allows you to place it anywhere in your system. It's not that they will stop producing the tuner, it just would not be included for orders after Dec 31 2017.
  • WA4FOM
    WA4FOM Member ✭✭
    edited March 2018
    Ah, my mistake then.  I stand corrected.
  • ctate243
    ctate243 Amateur radio contester Member ✭✭
    edited March 2018
    The real value of the PGXL, at least for me is its ability to essentially replace 2 amplifiers with one.  You can, listen on one band while transmitting an another, and vice versa.   Its LDMOS allows for SO2R level duty cycle, so it really is comparable to 2 amplifiers, then the price becomes less an issue.  I ran PGXL to a 3rd place world position in ARRL rtty roundup, and to do that I had to be running on 2 bands simultaneously (2BSIQ).   it passed with flying colors, at one of the most intense duty cycle modes, in the most intense of operating scenario.  PGXL actually saves money depending on your needs.
  • Tim - W4TME
    Tim - W4TME Administrator, FlexRadio Employee admin
    edited March 2018
    Contact Sales to get factual data.
  • KY6LA_Howard
    KY6LA_Howard La Jolla, CA. Paris and Sablet FranceMember ✭✭✭
    edited November 2019
    It is my understanding that LDMOS is starting to replace Klystrons in microwave ovens When that starts to happen on consumer devices, expect the cost of 1200 -1500W LDMOS chips to plummet
  • Rich McCabe
    Rich McCabe Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 2020
    Awesome, I cant wait for a Microwave I can work Tuvalu on  :)

  • ctate243
    ctate243 Amateur radio contester Member ✭✭
    edited March 2018
    I heard somewhere they use LDMOS in arc welders.  ;-).
  • K1UO Larry
    K1UO Larry MaineMember ✭✭✭
    edited March 2018
    or even 2 microwaves through a Combiner :)
  • Ria
    Ria Member ✭✭
    edited March 2018
    Not yet but it’s coming. That said it’s not a 1:1 replacement for the cavity magnetron. With LDMOS they’ll have an exciter and microprocessor and other circuitry. They can vary phase and amplitude and do things like boil an egg without it exploding. But I can see the magnetron being king for a long time because it’s just dirt cheap.

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