Maestro delivery date - any news?

K2CB Eric Dobrowansky

Now that I think about it, most if not all of the first run Maestros all probably all out of warranty by now. So maybe that's an easy "out" as far as fixing the known issues ?

ny3r

Good luck

Eric-KE5DTO

No.  There are no new features in the updated hardware.  The changes were simply to address the display being discontinued.

Steve-N5AC

Maestro shipments to the US will be resuming this week with shipments to EU commencing as soon as the certification process is complete.  As Tim mentions, it's difficult to predict the outcome of the EU certification process as sometimes it is very quick and at other times requires more effort.

During the design of the original Maestro, we ran the unit at all levels of charge on the external, insertable battery to ensure that the unit would function properly.  As those of you that have one can attest, when the battery runs out the Maestro provides a warning to replace the battery and provides about two minutes to accomplish the task.  If you don't have a charged battery, Maestro just shuts off until you can plug it in or supply a charged battery.  

The Maestro has an internal battery to allow for this lapse of energy and guides you through the process.  The software in the Maestro does not allow depletion of the internal battery otherwise.  After the shipment of the original Maestro, we discovered that there are two forms of depletion of the internal battery, however.  In the first stage, if the Maestro is left for long periods of time (typically months), the internal battery will slowly drain.  Once the unit is connected to a charger or battery, energy supplied will be used to restore the state of the internal battery.  This is normal operation and was well tested during design.

What was not realized during the design process is when the unit is left for extended periods of time (several months typically), the internal battery can become so depleted that the battery charging circuit will no longer respond to charging commands.  Simply placing your Maestro on a charger periodically will prevent this problem.  Our sales staff has a group of about 8 Maestros that get shipped back and forth to shows and otherwise sit in a cabinet.  To my knowledge, we've never had an issue with any of these units having the charging issue.  But once a Maestro battery is depleted to this state, a different charging circuit must be used to restore the internal battery function.  Electrically, this is what is known in the industry as a "dumb charger" as opposed to a smart charger (USB 1.2 CDP).  In a dumb charger, the USB D+ and D- leads of the charger are shorted to indicate that the device connected is a dumb charger.  When in the deep discharged condition as described above, the design of the internal battery accepts a dumb charger, but no longer accepts the smart charger, which is used in the Maestro design.  If this occurs, the Maestro must be opened and the internal battery charged using a dumb charger.  

In the event that your Maestro internal battery is depleted completely, we have been performing a no-cost fix for our customers the first time that it happens.  We then advise the customer that the unit needs to be periodically charged.   

The Maestro design has been revised and this issue is no longer present in the newer Maestro design (newer Maestro's serial numbers have 0101 in third group, e.g. XXXX-XXXX-0101-XXXX).  The design of the new Maestro is significantly different in this regard and is not a "retrofittable" change that can be made to older Maestros, otherwise we would be offering this as we have done with similar issues to this in the past.  The best way to avoid the issue is to simply leave your Maestro on a charger when not in use or place it on a charger periodically.  

We are continuing to consider other alternatives for the rare situations where this might happen so you can avoid a shipment back to FlexRadio and will let you know of any additional solutions.

Steve

John - K3MA

How might a customer acquire and use a dumb charger in order to fix this issue should it unavoidably happen?

Steve-N5AC

This is what "We are continuing to consider other alternatives for the rare situations where this might happen so you can avoid a shipment back to FlexRadio and will let you know of any additional solutions." is about.  

Edward Armstrong-WB2K

Hi Steve I have a Maestro plus other flex radio's.
I am sitting here reading what you wrote and I am puzzled if we did this in my industry we would have to fix it.
If I have to sit and Worried about my Maestro when I leave to Florida and don't bring it with me Then this is a problem I believe flex radio should retrofit all of the
 Maestro's so this cannot happen for you to say that this was fixed in the second run of maestros doesn't make me feel very good I think at this stage of the game you should fix these issues .
Hopefully you will recall all of the maestros that are out there and take care of this issue.

Steve-N5AC

I think you missed my point where I said: "The design of the new Maestro is significantly different in this regard and is not a "retrofittable" change that can be made to older Maestros, otherwise we would be offering this as we have done with similar issues to this in the past."  This is akin to asking for a V8 in a car with a V6 because the V6 has an issue where the ECM can run the car battery down if the car is not started for some number of months.  Yes, it's an inconvenience and I wish there was an easy fix.  Unfortunately there is not one and the V8 can't just be "dropped in" in a retrofit.  Having said this, in my final point, I mention that we are looking at alternatives to a retrofit, but don't have an answer yet.  We need some time to study the issue and alternatives.

We also clearly understand that fixing products in production does not help current customers.  I included this because both customers with existing Maestros and those that have ones on order are likely reading this topic so both cases are addressed.

We're certainly already motivated to fix the issue if we can.

K2CB Eric Dobrowansky

If my car had a defective ECM that drained the battery, they wouldn't swap the engine. At a minimum they would issue a technical bulletin, if not a full blown recall, and fix the ECM and/or associated components. Some of the Maestro issues have been known for over a year now. Now who the heck in their right mind is going to want to buy our used Maestros, at any price, after reading this thread. First you decimate the used value of our existing 6000 series radios with the new pricing structure, now our Maestros are worthless.. Then factor in the painfully slow software development....... At this point, anyone with half a brain has to be asking themselves, "why would I buy another Flex product? " Thank you, FRS!

Edward Armstrong-WB2K

Hi Eric this saves me from writing another letter.
Steve I read where you talked about the retrofit take out the boards in the old maestros and swap them with the new board that we can go on and on the point is the issue should be fixed

Steve-N5AC

If my car had a defective ECM that drained the battery, they wouldn't swap the engine. At a minimum they would issue a technical bulletin, if not a full blown recall, and fix the ECM and/or associated components.  

It was an imperfect analogy and it's pointless to argue about an analogy anyway.  I was attempting to make a point that a retrofit wasn't possible -- and that this is not dissimilar from a car running down that is left for an extended time.

Some of the Maestro issues have been known for over a year now.  

We've know about this issue for about a year, but not understood what causes it for that long.  Regardless, when the problem arose and before we even understood it, we offered to repair customer units for free with the problem (as I mentioned before) and instruct them on how to avoid the issue.  The problem is completely avoidable and is not dissimilar to the same issue on a car -- you have to start the car periodically to avoid the battery running down.

Now who the heck in their right mind is going to want to buy our used Maestros, at any price, after reading this thread. 

It sounds like you are angry about the thread -- our role in the thread is to answer questions and offer help to the best of our ability.  The thread was started by another customer.  Would you prefer that FlexRadio did not respond?

First you decimate the used value of our existing 6000 series radios with the new pricing structure, now our Maestros are worthless..  

It sounds like you are upset that we came out with better products at a more competitive price.  It appears that you don't understand the "why" here.  This strategy is called market cannibalization, referring to the fact that better and/or less expensive products (FLEX-6600/FLEX-6400) supplant existing products (FLEX-6300/FLEX-6500) and reduce demand for existing products.  There are a number of excellent business articles you can read online about why you might want to do this, but most business scholars are in general agreement that it's better to cannibalize your own products than allow your competition to do so.  In other words, you should offer your customers the best products at the best price you can -- or your competition will do this and you will lose market share.  I would recommend reading Harvard Business Review (they have a number of good articles on the topic) or MIT Sloan Management Review.  Both are excellent and have articles on the topic.  I prefer and subscribe to HBR, but YMMV.

Decimate means literally to "divide by ten."  In the radio business we use it differently, but either way, it implies that the value is significantly reduced.  We had a great deal of discussions on pricing and value while we designed our latest products.  Much of the discussion was around preserving value for our existing, loyal customers.  Along these lines, one of our strategies is to take existing radios on trade.  We take in our own radios at significantly larger numbers than they appear online for sale (I know because I personally have bots to watch sales on major resale sites where our radios appear).  We are a market maker in FlexRadios which means that we stabilize the market prices for the radios by offering good trade-in values.  No other radio company I'm aware of does this.  I've seen other vendors say publicly that when you buy a new radio, they'd like you to take your old radio of theirs and give it to someone, keep it as a backup, etc.  That's in their best interest, of course.  While we work to grow our company, I truly believe we look hard at helping our customers and do as much as we can that is in their best interest.  In this regard, I believe we go above and beyond any other manufacturer in this market.  

I do not think that your Maestro is worthless.  This comment reminds me of a young couple that moved in next door to me when I bought a house in North  Texas.  The builder didn't do what they wanted surrounding some repair or something and their solution was to hang a sign on the back of their house, facing a major road, stating that the builder was horrible.  I asked the guy about the sign and he complained about what his house is going to be worth because the builder didn't stand up and do the repair (it was minor as I recall).  The irony was palpable.  His sign, although intended to ameliorate the issue, only served to potentially lower EVERYONE's home values by maligning the builder of our homes.  Your comment is both inaccurate and self-defeating.

Then factor in the painfully slow software development.......

I suppose everyone is entitled to their opinion.  I'll stack our software development record against every other amateur radio vendor.  I wish I had the development staff of Apple, Google, Amazon, etc. to build software faster.  

At this point, anyone with half a brain has to be asking themselves, "why would I buy another Flex product? "

Thank you, FRS!

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