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Should I sell my Palstar HF-AUTO so I can get Tuner Genius?

Greg - KØGDI
Greg - KØGDI Member
edited August 2020 in Tuner Genius XL
I preordered the PowerGenius XL within 3 minutes of it being announced and see it comes with the TunerGenius.  Would it be safe to say that I can sell my Palstar HF-AUTO and just use the TunerGenius on my 8 band Buckmaster?

Answers

  • Mack
    Mack Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 2019
    Greg,

    Just to be sure you know, the Tuner Genius, is included at no charge with pre-orders of the Power Genius XL. 

    I recommend you keep your Palstar Tuner for a while until the exact specs (SWR ratio's) the Tuner Genius can handle are published. I'm testing the amp now and can report it performs fantastically. You'll really like it when it's shipped. 

    In my case all of my antennas are resonant 160M to 900 Mhz and so no tuner is needed at this QTH. 

    73,

    Mack
    W4AX
    Alpha Team
  • Greg - KØGDI
    Greg - KØGDI Member
    edited July 2017
    Thank you for your reply.  I'll keep the HF-AUTO for a while.  :)  Just trying to consolidate some stuff to make that final amplifier payment when it comes due.  
  • Jim Gilliam
    Jim Gilliam Member ✭✭
    edited July 2017

    The Palstar uses a roller inductor and variable capacitors which has a much higher Q and, therefore, less loss than the relay type tuner of switching in lumped circuit elements. I would elect to use the Palstar over the switching type tuner.


    Jim, K6QE

  • Michael Aust
    Michael Aust Member ✭✭
    edited July 2017
    I recommend you keep the HF-Auto Palstar Tuner.
    Has much wider tuning range especially on 6meters due to
    lower loss.
    It's slower, but can handle 1.8Kw easily !


  • Michael Aust
    Michael Aust Member ✭✭
    edited July 2017
    I also put my order in for the Power Genius XL & have Palstar HF-Auto 
    and plan to keep Tuner !

    Have Fully loaded mint K3 with mint P3 need to find new home to make room for Amp
  • Mark Griffin
    Mark Griffin Member ✭✭
    edited July 2017
    Greg,
    I have the SPE 1.3K FA amplifier. I purchased mine without the autotuner. Reason is because it only can handle a maximum swr of 3.0:1. If your Buckmaster has SWR's that are higher then that, then keep the HF-Auto.  I use my HF-Auto with my SPE, and have no issues at all. Plus, I saved $1,200.00.  If you antenna is like most, 40-160 will have higher swr's than the other bands. Plus, if you have the antenna cut for the CW portion of the band, and you desire to go to the phone portion, your SWR's will rise.

    All in all, Keep the tuner and enjoy the new amplifier.
    Mark Griffin, KB3Z
  • Paul Christensen, W9AC
    Paul Christensen, W9AC Member ✭✭
    edited June 2020
    I think the advice given to keep the Palstar is good -- just long enough to ensure the PG XL is tuning the Buckmaster OCF dipole.  If I were a bettin' man, I would place a wager that the PG XL will manage it fine. 

    The transmission line SWR from your OCF should be under 3:1 on all bands. I don't see Buckmaster's typical SWR curves for the 8-band OCF version, but the 7-band version shows under 3:1 SWR at the OCF's optimum center and end heights above ground.  Assuming it's less than a 3:1 SWR, I cannot imagine the PG XL not managing that.  By managing it, I mean that's it's capable of tuning system reactance to zero, then presenting a Zo resistive impedance of 50 ohms to the amplifier (50+j0).   

    There's an infinite number of R and X combinations that comprise one SWR on a Smith Chart.  But the magnitude of a 3:1 mismatch is so small, the PG XL should be able to tune any combination on the 3:1 circle. 

    A poster above mentioned loss. Just because a tuner uses a roller inductor means nothing in the world of RF loss.  The rolling shorting bar alone can reduce coil Q to horrid levels, especially as frequency increases.  A good coil should have a Q of 200+.  Fixed coils with adequate turns spacing easily exceed this value, but few variable inductors will.  G3TXQ measured coil Q of a common 15 uH roller inductor:

    https://www.w8ji.com/images/Tuner/rollercoaster_q2.jpg

    As coil Q drops, loss increases.  Moreover, as SWR increases, and as load impedance is reduced (e.g., short antennas under 1/2 wave or under 1/4 wave verticals), loss can escalate out of control.  Just look at tuner loss in some QST product reviews.  Some of the worst performers use roller inductors. Capacitor Q is also important but is rarely a factor as air and vacuum variables are intrinsically high Q.  Don't be fooled by what a tuner looks like inside the cabinet. We have to look at the tuner as if our eyes can visualize RF. 

    As this Java model from W9CF shows, loss of the common "T" type tuner is a mostly a function of: (1) shunt coil Q; and (2) output capacitor value. 

    http://fermi.la.asu.edu/w9cf/tuner/tuner.html

    A disaster is set up when coil Q is compromised, and small-value adjustable output capacitors are used to save on production expenses.

    Paul, W9AC
  • Michael Aust
    Michael Aust Member ✭✭
    edited July 2017

    Never been a Fan of OCF Antenna's because part of the feedline can cause RFI close to the shack and get into things, cabling, etc.

     Always like using baluns but beware of not overdriving them.

    Also, beware, some of the Buckmaster OCF's have feed Balun's that overheat, especially the 300Watt Versions and cause them to ****, if you go over their Max Limit's, then moisture get in and they become erratic under high power, SWR changes, etc.

    Only OCF I use would possibly be the 5Kw Version if driving with a Power Genius XL Amp !

  • KF4HR
    KF4HR Member ✭✭
    edited July 2017
    My Palstar HF-Auto works every time.  Palstar provides firmware upgrades that work every time and don't create negative side effects.  No customer reviews yet on the TunerGenius.  Need I say more?
  • Brenton Meadows
    edited June 2020
    Hi From Tangambalanga North East Victoria Australia,

    I absolutely love my Palstar HF Auto, its been able to take a huge bashing(not literally haha) but after 4 years, it has never let me down, its so handy in so many ways.
    I have not had a great chance to look at the new Flex Tuner but like many above, I may grab one but would never sell my HF Auto, just a part of the furniture here these days.
    The other item of interest is the amplifier and feedback that evolves, I use an Acom 2000 and an Acom 1000 and am interfacing the Acom 2000 at the moment with no great difficulty.  Our interest in the amplifier is more for some of our defense contract needs but I may get my arm twisted to tack one on the end of the Flex6700.  Im also a recent recipient of the Maestro, just unreal engineering, performance and flexibility to annoy my wife in the lounge room.  This Flex Radio bug has really bitten but remember guys, Dont forget the XYL, a gift out of the blue is a great way to keep the eyes off the the radio expense account haha...So off to the shops to buy something for the wife, and then the Flex items on the accounts wont be noticed.....Hopefully haha....Cheers Brenton VK3CM Tangambalanga Australia  PS Photo of these are my favorite hand model (my neighbour), Samantha my Beautiful XYL is being given these at lunch today as a thank you for putting up with one eccentric ham radio operator who even takes his Maestro to bed(with headphones)....Im sure that wont last to long, even with bribes pictured.


    image
  • Mike VE3CKO
    Mike VE3CKO Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 2017
    I see "pre-orders". I thought it was any orders made in 2017?  Has that changed to just pre orders?  If so when does pre-orders end with respect to manufacturing or first delivery?
  • Ned K1NJ
    Ned K1NJ Member ✭✭
    edited July 2017

         Love my Palstar, but it won't be finding itself at the base of the antenna.  On the other
    hand, Tuner Genius will be right where it belongs.

                        Ned,  K1NJ

  • Richard McClelland, AA5S
    Richard McClelland, AA5S Member ✭✭
    edited July 2017
    As far as bribes go, this one looks to be more than sufficient, you may even be able to keep your Maestro with you.

  • Peter K1PGV
    Peter K1PGV Member ✭✭
    edited July 2017
    Love my Buckmaster OCF... the 3KW version. 7 bands, easy to hoist between three trees. I'd love a tower and a Yagi even more, no doubt... but I'm not a rich man and must confess that I don't much enjoy the "install your antenna" part of our great hobby. I hear you, though... OCF is a compromise. Peter K1PGV
  • WB0O
    WB0O Member ✭✭

    Lots of talk here about the PalStar Auto tuner, and 6 meters. Be VERY careful, and read the manual. Don't be like me, and read the manual after it is too late. I love my PalStar tuner, but to be clear, it is NOT capable of 1800 Watts from 160 to 6 meters. Read the fine print in the manual - it only handles 800 watts PEP at 50-54 MHz. If you put 1500 watts into it on 6M you will burn it up very quickly. Trust me, I know. As such, I am excited to learn of the specs of the new Tuner Genius, and see how it handles on 6 Meters.

  • Mack W4AX
    Mack W4AX Company Adviser ✭✭

    @WB0O I am the program manager for the TGXL. I won’t comment on a competing product but I can tell you that I own two of those tuners and haven’t turned them on in many months.

    The TGXL is capable of legal limit operation on all bands 160M to 6M including MARS frequencies. I operate the TGXL daily on all bands where there is activity.

    The website for the TGXL will be public in January. We expect to ship to those users who pre-ordered a Power Genius Amplifier in Q1. The pre-orders qualified for an included Tuner Tuner Genius at no cost.

    73,

    Mack

    W4AX

    Program Manager TGXL

  • KF4HR
    KF4HR Member ✭✭

    Mack has there any pricing given to the TG-XL models yet? With distribution suppose to start in Q1 2021 one would think its price would have been determined by now.


    Butch

    KF44HR

  • Mack W4AX
    Mack W4AX Company Adviser ✭✭

    @KF4HR Butch, pricing will be announced by FlexRadio marketing soon. Please be patient a bit longer. We are still on track to begin shipping in Q1.

    Mack

    W4AX

  • Mack W4AX
    Mack W4AX Company Adviser ✭✭

    @KF4HR Butch, pricing will be announced by FlexRadio marketing soon. Please be patient a bit longer. We are still on track to begin shipping in Q1.

    Mack

    W4AX

  • Mack W4AX
    Mack W4AX Company Adviser ✭✭

    One other aside. I have sold one of my AT-Auto Tuners and will post the other for sale soon. I haven’t turned them on in over a year.

    Mack

    W4AX

  • Patrick
    Patrick WH6HI KauaiMember ✭✭✭
    edited February 5

    A tuner that uses a roller inductor is much preferred, if you need to use it with an antenna that needs to match a wide ranges of impedances. Switched fixed inductors will get a good match, but not necessarily a perfect match. And will only match within the range of the provided fixed inductors. This is also the same with the capacitors. The choice is based on the users technical need. In my case all my antennas 30 meters to 10 meters use tuners with fixed inductors and capacitors. I use a manual tuner with roller inductors plus variable capacitors as it fulfills my needs of working both ends of 80/75 meters with stable and close to perfect matching. The fixed type of tuner can’t attain this need.

  • Patrick
    Patrick WH6HI KauaiMember ✭✭✭

    If you intend to ship the Tuner Genius soon, how about a picture.

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