6400M/6600M - Multi Client

Larry - WA7LZO

I understand that in order to remotely control a 6400M/6600M over the Internet, since it already has an integrated, and non removable,  Maestro bolted on the front of its chassis, remote capability will require the so-called "Multi Client" feature.

I saw a previous post stating Multi Client will not be included in V2.0.

My conclusion: When I receive my 6600M, I will not be able to operate it remotely over the Internet via WAN, because although it will arrive loaded with V2.0, it will not include "Multi Client." Further, I also understand  there is no date projected for "Multi Client." 

If this is true, this seem like it is a huge consideration for deciding between the 6400/6600 versus the 6400M/6600M.

As Bill O'Reilly so often says, "Where am I going wrong here?"

Thanks for any insight on this!

Br,

Larry
WA7LZO

Milen KG2C

I understood it differently.
Multi-client would let several clients connect to and operate the radio simultaneously; for example using the radio's controls in addition to SmartSDR. 

So with the M models you can connect and operate remotely but you won't be able to use the front panel at the same time because a client will be connected already. And even that scenario will likely get fixed with an update.

Ken Hansen

Isn't multi-client about multiple 'simultaneous' clients? I expect the Flex 6X00M-series radios to support either/or operation, but not simultaneous operation when released.

Jim Gilliam

My understanding is the new series as well as the old will operate the same except that you can access the radio via the WAN as well as the local LAN. I don't think they mentioned that it can be operated with multiple clients connected to the radio simultaneously. I am not sure why someone would want this when there would be a constant battle of who transmits, who receives what, etc.

Jim, K6QE

Steve K9ZW

FRS was asking for input what an M-model should display when under remote control, so perhaps we're over thinking things by considering the front plate merely a bolt-in Maestro? Additionally it would make sense that at the M-model ship date that a point-release of SmartSDR v2.x would happen to bring out the M-model feature set. Maybe they will ship with v2.0 but I'm betting it will be v 2.1/2.2 or so. 73 Steve K9ZW

Larry - WA7LZO

I understood (but could be wrong!) "Multi Client" was necessary because the 6400M/6600M radio server will "see" 2 control devices, one being its front panel Maestro, and the second being the remote device, be it via iOS, PC, Maestro, etc.

For instance, if you use a Maestro remotely, the radio server will "see" 2 Maestros, one that is local, and the other one remote.

How will the 6400M/6600M know what to do, or which Maestro to "believe" is in charge?

Are you are suggesting there will some sort of a user controlled setting (that the Op sets before leaving his/her radio server) disabling the bolted-on Maestro? So in effect, the 6400M/6600M RS essentially morphs into a 6400/6600?

If true, this would be a neat trick!

Br,

Larry
WA7LZO

Larry - WA7LZO

Perhaps Tim could kindly weigh-in on this?

I don't think any of us users actually know this answer for absolute certain, as we'd likely just be parroting what we thought we heard at Xenia, or SeaPac.

Milen KG2C

I meant that when a new client connects it would be able to disconnect the previously connected client. I believe this is an existing feature. So if you are using the front panel and then connect through SmartSDR, then only SmartSDR would control it (at least when released). Then when you switch to your remote operation from work using your iPad, this would disconnect the other clients.
That at least was my understanding of what to expect at launch, from reading the forums.
I am sure Flex would work on making the front panel complement and work in tandem with whatever other clients you use but maybe not in 2.0 since that wasn't really promised anywhere that I've read.

Larry - WA7LZO

This now begs a second question:

If  one can essentially disable the M-model's front panel Maestro, thereby all but reverting the M-model into a 6400/6600, then could the Op choose to use his/her PC, via their home LAN, for local ops?

If so, by my way of thinking, this says there is zero reason to not buy the M-series, as it is all upside, what with its knob and button interface, and no PC being required, yet if using a PC floats one boat (not sure why it would!), then go for it!

The only minor downside (if you want to call it that) of the M-series vs/ the older PC required non-M series is the slightly higher cost to cover the bolted on Dell notebook.

Sounds like all upside to me!

Milen KG2C

Correct. Only downside is having to pay more (which is to be expected for that nice display) and having to be careful with the knobs and display if you decide to move the radio around the desk aggressively.

Larry - WA7LZO

Woops, meant to say bolted on Dell tablet (which I believe has subsequently now been replaced by some other 3rd party's tablet, since the Dell tablet was discontinued mid-stream).

Larry - WA7LZO

This decision is now rapidly becoming an absolute no brainer, as I learn more about the M-series. The M models vs/ the bare bones 6400/6600 RS's are looking to be "all good," with 100% upside!

I can easily cover the slight cost delta by simply visiting Starbucks a few less times per day. Albeit, this will very soon be increasingly difficult, due to the imminent arrival V2.0, whereby I can operate DX remotely from Starbucks, whilst I sip my Vente Latte, at a nice 190 heart hammering degrees F.

Mark WS7M

Seems like a good reason to get a regular unit and separate Maestro.

Ria

"Multi client" means multiple simulatenous clients (and only one can transmit at a time).

The 6600M and 6400M can use external clients like the maestro, PC or iPad. However under the current SSDR the front panel likely won't work while you're using an external client. However, a future version of SSDR 2.0 may have this feature.

Larry - WA7LZO

But that solution forces one to run a PC.

Ria

It really doesn't. The maestro will take care of upgrades and such, and even SmartLink registration in 2.0. 

Steve K9ZW

My thoughts exactly. The grab and go PLUS full Flex-6000 capabilities make the choice pretty clear. FRS at Xenia said the M-models were not simply a Maestro added to the radio, so we should drop that misconception. Gerald said the M-models would operate in keeping with the interface of the Maestro but was different under the hood. BRW the Maestro's Dell based internal is an OEM module and it isn't like FRS runs to Best Buy to get their stock of tablets, then shucks them down like so many ears of corn. I missed any FRS announcement that the current production uses anything different for this part, though Gerald did say the new M-model was a multi-vendor design. BTW the end of consumer sales of a hardware platform simply does not mean the OEM variants are also discontinued. Sometimes it can be many years difference between the end of life at the consumer vs OEM level. 73 Steve K9ZW

Mike_WB8CXO

Think!!! Why would Flex take away remote access of the M versions after working so hard to get WAN access working on Version 2? As it works now a new client trying to access a radio can force the current client to disconnect and the new client gets the radio. Been this way for a year now. I suspect the Front Panel on the M radios will act the same way the current Maestro does. I would also expect Flex to improve on this in Version 2 when the 6400M/6600M's are ready to ship. TIM HELP! TIM WHERE R U?

Walt

After dealing with snarling tigers (me included) I hope Tim is off enjoying family and friends on such a great day.  I trust he will not look at anything on here till tomorrow.

Cheers and Beers, Tim

Larry - WA7LZO

Yes, FRS said at the June 2017 Sea Pac event the Maestro-like front panel of the M-series is essentially the internal OEM module from a Dell tablet. I am not sure if the actual LCD display panel on the M-series is also lifted from the Dell tablet, or is sourced from an alternate supplier. FRS also mentioned at SeaPac that the OEM module itself (beyond its consumer tablet) from Dell was subsequently discontinued (not talking about the retail version of the full blown Dell tablet, but rather the Dell OEM module). He said FRS has other source(s) of an OEM tablet engine module, so no worries here!.

Mack

Larry,

You will 100% be able to control and use a 6400M/6600M over the WAN when the radio is released. I'm a Flex insider as one of their unpaid strategic business advisers. Details will follow but you should not hesitate to purchase one of these radios today.

I hope you're enjoying the 4th!

Vy 73,

Mack
W4AX
Alpha Team

Larry - WA7LZO

Or, Tim may be lounging on the private Jersey beach with Gov Chris Christie, clacking away on his tablet! LOL :-)

Ken Hansen

The 'bolted-on' front panel is only one of several options for controlling a Flex 6x00M series radio, buying an 'M' unit does not prevent the use of any other client option (PC, Maestro, iPad), the only limitation is that of only one client per Flex 6x00M radio at a time, just as existed for the past year. This is consistent with the operation of the current SSDR software, and there really is no reason to consider the 'bolted-on' control panel as anything more than the latest addition to an ever-expanding collection of equal alternatives to control your Flex 6x00 seriesradios.

Larry - WA7LZO

Yahoo!! Thanks for the info, Mack!

Br,
Larry

Larry - WA7LZO

Steve, you mentioned the new 6400M/6600M use Dell's OEM tablet module:

"BTW the Maestro's Dell based internal is an OEM module and it isn't like FRS runs to Best Buy to get their stock of tablets, then shucks them down like so many ears of corn. "

Check out the internals of the Maestro. Looks to me like FRS may have, indeed, ran down to Best Buy, and shucked some corn, at least with the old Maestro. Can't say for sure what they may be doing in terms of the front panel of the 6400M/6600M, but it might make good sense to do the same thing here they did with the ears of corn on their stand alone Maestro product. There's certainly plenty of room inside the new bigger box of the M-series to accommodate the consumer case of the Dell tablet. Obviously, FRS is buying direct from the tablet vendor, juxtaposed to buying it from a retail consumer store like Best Buy, but you get my drift.

Br,
Larry
WA7LZO

Steve K9ZW

Exactly - the modules likely come some 50-100 to a case, and it would make sense to use the tablet module largely intact.

Just like plug-in boards, it doesn't make sense to bypass the established interface & connections unless there is really something special to be gained.

Cool picture - I've kind of wanted to take one apart, but haven't done so.

73

Steve K9ZW

EA4GLI

Larry - WA7LZO

I don’t think there is much “shucking” involved as the case is complete and the display of the Maestro is the Dell Tablet intact. Another item is the Maestro Power Switch pushes on the Dell Tablet Power switch also intact. I believe you could take the Dell Tablet out and use it as a ‘normal” tablet when not using the Maestro.

I might I  suggest that as usable feature and hope it is retained in the Maestro2. :-) LOL

Larry - WA7LZO

Another pic of Maestro's interior:

Larry - WA7LZO

My guess, at this point, is the 6400M/6600M may also use an intact tablet, albeit Dell has discontinued the tablet initially used in the 6400M/6600M, so don't know what tablet will show up in the released M- models. Heck, why reinvent the wheel? This is why the display is so gorgeous. It's a nice tablet display. Makes perfect sense to do this!

James Whiteway

The Maestro runs a customized, stripped down version of Windows. (Won't take updates unless FRS includes them, themselves when they update SSDR for Maestro) I doubt with that configuration, it would make much of a stand alone tablet. James WD5GWY