6400/6600 - An Opportunity to Upgrade Connectors?

Mike VE3CKO

Personally, when I had my 6500 I never used the 8-pin Foster and will never use it on my 6700. Why pay so much for a radio then compromise audio with a hand mike. I've used quality studio microphones from day one, so I'm a big fan of the XLR connector. I don't like the thought of 1/8" mic input as it is certainly not as durable as an XLR so I see it as a possible point of failure. Then again I rarely need to unplug the line input connector, only if I'm moving the radio.

Optical Ethernet port, I would think this would have never been brought up in any brainstorming session as it makes no financial or practical sense as it would force every user to go out and purchase an adapter so they can connect to their computer, network, router and Maestro. The Flex haters would have a heyday. 

I use nothing but crimp connectors for both PL-259 and N. I think you would disturb the balance of the universe if an N-connector were to appear on an HF rig.

What did Spock say, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few", but then someone will point out he also said, "Change is the essential process of all existence".

As per the GROUND, I hope the **** shown is not the final solution but just a prototype image. Flex is just too **** smart to leave it this way.

N6OIL

I see why they are not using NeuTrik connectors, they are very pricey compared to a bag Power Poles but I do like them for ruggedized installations.

Ria

I found that the Andrew connectors come with good instructions and the plastic cutting guide is in the box. Never had a problem. Cheap China connectors to attach to RG213 are garbage. Amphenol 82-2-1006 N male are excellent. I keep at least a few dozen of them on hand. I don't have specialized tools just a caliper and an exacto knife, soldering station. Yes they can be difficult for some hams with less than stellar eyesight and who want something easy to deal with.

Ria

Paul Christensen, W9AC

>"I actually began to avoid N-connectors unless professionally attached using professional tools from a reputable shop."

Or, using one's own pro-grade crimping tools.   Adding to your point, look at used test gear on the market and you'll see many flared N inner conductors due to imperfect mating connectors and imperfect insertion when threading an N plug onto a chassis connector. 

If an N connector is used at the RF source (i.e., the back of a transceiver), then I'll typically use an adapter as a sacrificial device.  Performance variance due to Z-bumps is almost entirely irrelevant at the RF source.  It's much easier to replace a ruined adapter than a chassis-mounted N connector. 

Power handling of the PL-259/SO-239 combination is better than the N, especially toward UHF.

Paul, W9AC  
  

 

Michael Coslo

It isn't that N isn't better. It most definitely is better.  When we redid our station we used Hardline and N connectors on everything, even the 160 meter antenna, which put us far into diminishing returns.

Then at the interior patch panel, we have N-UHF adapters for the last 6 feet.  Because that's what the radios have on them. Would it have been better to have N connectors on the radios? Now we're getting into an interesting area. We certainly would have to have a flexible pigtail on the patch panel, there is no way I would work with hardline to each radio/tuner/amplifier combination. 

This isn't being a luddite, it is putting together systems using what the components of the system have. I'd have to have a tuner with N connectors, power amplifiers with N connectors, rejjection filters with N connectors. Until those devices all have N connectors, I'm dealing with adapters regardless. 

And at HF, exactly what quantifiable gain will I get for all of that work?

Ria

I don't want to convert anyone to N. I just don't want to be looked at as a **** because I choose to use them almost exclusively in my station. 

Mike VE3CKO

Everyone who comes to my house looks up and sees all that aluminum and wire, already think I'm a ****, especially my wife. To be a **** among all us weirdos would be a badge of honour I use dielectric grease inside all my VHF/UHF N-connectors, on HF well keep it simple with PL-259.

We all make choices for our station that others don't like. We make choices that make sense to us for different reasons. I wouldn't waste the effort to put N-connectors on HF but I surely would not criticize those that do. I salute the extra effort to squeeze every micro watt for performance, durability and longevity.

Tim - W4TME

**** is not politically correct.  We are "eccentric" ;-)

Dave - W6OVP

A few years ago several serious engineers (who were also hams) in a serious lab ran serious SWR and loss tests on a number of popular RF connectors and published the results. To the surprise of many, the old fashioned Heathkit favorite RCA jack took top honors. (Now if they would only come out with a decent matching plug.)  Just sayin'... not proposing.

Michael Coslo

Oh, I certainly didn't mean to cast any aspersions, Ria.  It was just a convenient place to  chime in.   And I definitely qualify as a **** myself. Or alt-thought process. 

Ross - K9COX

At times I just stick the center conductor of the coax into the hole of the SO-239 and use a bread tie to secure the shield to the outer threads...works fine.

Ria

Just to clarify - using heliax means you don't have ready access to PL259 for it. For the main tower the run is 250'. That's a lot of loss on 10 and 6. When I put 1.5kw out I want most of that at the antenna. This is how I started using N. Ria

Mike W8MM

I have quite a few UHF males for LDF-4!

Michael Coslo

re center conductor stuck in the connector and using bread ties to finish the work. My Kind of Ham radio Ross. I pride myself on my innovation and precision work - kinda like this fine job of solderfication! 8^) 

Dave Dave

N connectors are better then pl259 ..... but you cant tell the difference unless you have expensive test equipment, pl259 is my preference, especially for HF.

Power Poles do not fall apart if they put together right,  they snap yet do come apart when needed, I mean really do you slide your radio around on a table????   Love power poles... entire shack has them..... there GENDERLESS ............you wont realize how good that is till you use them.

1/8 for a Mic that will be hand held is totally unacceptable, 1/8 inch will not take any abuse, In my case my mic line goes to a mic selector box which is never moved so in MY case it would be ok but still don't want!!!

Ria

Not saying it should be mandatory, just optional. I run hardline and they come with N connectors. Adapters make things a bit messy, especially where room behind the radio is at a premium.

Ria

Peter K1PGV

I was an N-Connector, anti-powerpole, campaigner for several years. I standardized on N-connectors in my shack, and I banned the use of power pole connectors with any of my gear. That lasted for a while. I just found it too hard to swim against the tide. Too much equipment comes with the connectors I didn't choose to use, and I wound up with lots of annoying converters. Every time I have to use a power pole or PL259, I just shake my head. Sometimes you just have to go with the flow. Yet I remain a passionate anti-power pole advocate. The only advantage of a power pole connector is that it has a nice, long, mating surface. But the fact that they're genderless so you can connect you gear with the wrong power polarity, the fact that pairs of power poles can come apart unless you glue,or pin them, and the fact that they can be easily pulled or fall apart makes me nuts. Anytime I have a power pole connection that I want to NOT fall apart inadvertently, I cable tie it. What kind of a reasonable connector requires that? Peter K1PGV

Paul Christensen, W9AC

>"What kind of a reasonable connector requires that?"

Not a very good one for its intended purpose.  Imagine the U.S. Military using them as they are used on the back of transceivers. 

I normally use APP as an in-line connecting device for portable equipment - not where it's used on a chassis except when forced to - like the back of commercial equipment. 

The larger, 50A and 75A APPs do work very well and their shells keep the connector engaged when brought out as short pig-tails.  I'm using a pair of 50A APPs on a homebrew, water-cooled LDMOS amp project.  Supply current is 30A per APP from a +60V supply. 

If manufacturers insist on using the small APP, the mating APP chassis connector should be recessed into a channel. At least this eliminates up/down and sideways lateral movement - and takes off much of the wire strain. The mating APP pins are then set back on the equipment's PC board.  Other examples of recessed/channeled connectors include the common IEC AC power plug and the 400 series Cinch-Jones connectors that have been time-proved for decades.

AMP and Molex branded Nylon connectors aren't recessed but the connector fits in an almost tongue-groove style along the connector perimeter and the larger connectors utilize a Nylon or plastic channel around each pin.  The result is a connector with zero wiggling and stays locked together.

As to the N connector, I've come full-circle to sticking with SO-239/PL-259 on most equipment.  At the back of transmitting equipment, a constant-Z connector is a complete waste of time and money - even at UHF.  The need for constant-Z becomes more important as we go further down a transmission line toward the load.  The effects from a so-called "impedance bump" do not manifest until we approach a quarter-wave of distance from the RF source.  Moreover, the "N" is subject to pin misalignment and breakage.  Yes, most of us are careful but in my haste to get something done, I admit to breaking them in the past.  Have a look at used test gear with "N" input connectors.  Much of it has split inner pin sockets.  The SO-239/PL-259 is significantly more robust but not immune to things like cross-threading and PL-259 pins that are over-soldered and cause the mating SO-239 to flare, and eventually break.

Paul, W9AC   

  



 

Ria

Too much equipment comes with the connectors I didn't choose to use, and I wound up with lots of annoying converters. 

This is true if you're referring to amateur equipment at HF. For  weak signal VHF/UHF it is almost all N on amateur equipment and other connectors like 7/16 DIN on commercial gear. 

What I found puzzling was the use of BNC on receive antenna ports. But I guess they have to do that if they're also being used for other things. I have to use annoying converters to connect F connectors which are pretty much the standard for amateur low band receive antennas. What's worse is that most of the BNC to F connectors are 75 ohm with a smaller pin so they don't work. So you have to rig up something and often it isn't pretty. 

Bill Garfield W1BG

At HF frequencies, even 50 MHz the difference in loss between connector types is infinitesimally small, certainly not enough to make an S-meter move nor make the difference between copy vs no copy. Even on 150 MHz commercial gear standard UHF connectors at the bottom end are the norm. Heliax transmission line? Sure, but don’t you still need a short flexible jumper at the exciter? In a pinch I too have just shoved the center conductor into the SO-239 with a rubber band around the braid.

Ross - K9COX

I used a bread tie

Ken - NM9P

For a more permanent "temporary" fix, use a stainless steel worm gear clamp....

W8WD

Steve,
Although there does not seem to be consensus, I have to agree with you there should have been consideration for an "Optical Ethernet port". SFP and SFP+ standards enable various copper and optical modules allowing the user to have flexibility in selecting an interface not locking customers into a single solution. Unfortunately to implement such a solution takes a lot of development work and product validation. We as customers need to appreciate the validation Flex Radio has to go through to produce a reliable product. 

In my case I have a 6600M and PowerGenius XL™ on order and plan on optically isolating them from my router, computer, Maestro, and antenna switches. I developed a WiFI to antenna switch that prevents lighting strikes to enter my network. 

Brian / W8WD  

Mike VE3CKO

I'm not going to downgrade from my 6700 just yet as I'm too disappointed they didn't include a peanut or cashew dispenser. I'd get more use of it than an optical Ethernet port, ha ha. Happy Thanksgiving to our American friends.