Win 10 Creators version update ...

Gary L. Robinson

The Windows Creator update was a VERY long update BUT all went well.  No problems or glitches with SmartSDR, associated programs, or the 6300.  Of all the Windows updates I have had - I ONLY had one (several months ago) that caused a problem which was with the DAX program.  I uninstalled and reinstalled the SmartSDR software and all was well.

All the myriad of other updates have had no effect which is amazing to me ...

Duane_AC5AA

Same here - just did it tonight.  An hour of updating, and all worked when it was all over.  I'm shocked!  :-)

Michael Coslo

My creator's update took a long time as well. I understand that Microsoft is shifting toward more or less rewriting the whole OS with many of these updates.  Anyhow, I suspect the issue lies within the hardware of the computer, and some real quirks with drivers. Which might lead to the hardware issues. 

Anyhow, installing/reinstalling always fixes the problem. At this point, I have more or less given up, and plan on doing that after every update.

Ross - K9COX

You are not alone

Steve G1XOW

Installed W10C on my home machine over a month . No problems whatsoever, even SSDR had no issue, that was a nice surprise!

At work we've installed (or updated to it) more than 140 times already, not seen any problems so far, except that the media creation tool (makes a bootable USB W10 installer) does not work anymore. No big deal as we still remember how to use DVDs.

Steve G1XOW

ps. Microsoft recently made a statement to the effect that W10 was the ONLY O/S that was entirely immune from the WannaCry ransomeware. More shockingly was that W7 was in fact the worst affected.

Needless to say we've spent weeks updating the 900 x W7 PCs we still have on contracts.

dlwarnberg

HAHA, I can not get my computer to accept the creators update from windows.. go figure

Michael Coslo

I would love to investigate why some have problems, and some don't.  My thoughts are that it is the individual computer's hardware related is just one step away from a wild eyed guess, but I like to know the reasons why some problems happen. 

Tim - W4TME

You and us both.  If we knew why it was happening (root cause) we could investigate the viability of a mitigating action.

Peter K1PGV

I *did* want to advise people that it's (almost) always better to *wait* for major upgrades (like Creators) to be pushed to you by Microsoft, than it is to pro-actively seek and download the upgrade at your first opportunity.  This is true even after Microsoft announces the upgrade has been officially released.

While the result of waiting may be that it takes you a few weeks longer to get the upgrade, you'll also be getting an upgrade that's been updated/fixed to avoid problems experienced by earlier adopters.  In addition, other updates/fixes that may be useful/helpful/pertinent to your specific system are more likely to be ready.

In this case, patience is indeed a virtue. OTOH, after the upgrade has been out for several weeks, and you haven't gotten it, but you're aware of it being pushed to friends and relatives, you should feel free to go ahead and pull it down and install it.

Now, whether that does anything to solve Flex driver issues during upgrade or not is anyone's guess.

I hope that helps,

Peter
K1PGV

Peter K1PGV

> If we knew why it was happening

I'd be happy to know WHAT's happening.

The problem reports seem to only ever say "the install borked my copy of SSDR and I had to remove/reinstall 3 times before it worked again"

To be able to diagnose the problem (the first step to finding a fix) we'd need a very specific description of what that problem is.

>My thoughts are that it is the individual computer's hardware related

Me too.  I have *long* suspected an issue with the serial port database -- which is ancient and very prone to problems.  And, if SSDR/CAT isn't the only thing that's synthesizing serial ports on a system (Michael's hardware-specific aspect maybe), there's a reasonably high likelihood of problems (due to carrying forward serial port numbers, and  the random ordering of how those drivers start).

But THAT is a Big Giant Dumb-Assed  Guess, is what that is...

Peter
K1PGV

VE7ATJ_Don

Well, I guess I'm one of the outliers, cuz I've had two major problems with the upgrade to Win10 1703 (aka Creators).  There were both on the same machine, so there may be something to the hardware supposition.  But it's a relatively new (3 mos) high-end Dell laptop, so I wouldn't have expected any issues.

One was the Intel driver problem I reported in another thread.  Apparently, the default WiFi drivers included had fatal flaws which caused them to crash. (fix is to download revised ones from Intel) And the other now, is an inability to load drivers for my HP printers -- either USB connected or via WiFi!  Sheesh.. talk about making life difficult.  the flex works fine tho...

Mike NN9DD

The install that came out 2 weeks ago caused all kinds of Havoc in the DAX audio drivers that were virtually unfixable with out a windows rebuild. 

I waited until I had time and the update that came out this week seemed to fix it with a uninstall and reinstall.  I wish I knew what caused it as well.  It seemed to be a rights issue for the DAX directory as near as Dudley and I could tell.

Its is fixed now so all is well

Mike

N9DFD

Gary L. Robinson

Interestingly,  I waited until Windows forced the Creators update on me.  So, you may be giving out valuable good advice about waiting for the updates to be pushed out to you.  And I regularly do that.  I seldom "go looking for trouble" hihi

---Gary WB8ROL

K4MT

Update was done on my computer and it didnt even mess with all my PowerSDR or 5000A virtual audio and serial ports. I was very surprised.

Michael Coslo

I empathize with ya Tim. This is a nuisance for all of us. 

Michael Coslo

Okay - I have gone through my error logs. Now one thing to keep in mind is that I'm a UNIX guy, so I could be reporting something way off, so be gentle!

I'm watching the Pens Sens game right now, so I'll do the log reportage tomorrow.

Michael Coslo

Okay, here's the skinny. my creators update came in on the 21st. I have saved the error logs from then to this morning. I saved them in all of the formats allowed. Now what to do? 

Duane_AC5AA

Looks like I was fooled.  After initial power on's, I started finding that slices either disappeared during later power-on cycles, or they opened with no audio.  Fully uninistalled and reinstalled 1.16.10 including DAX and VSP, and yet problem continues.  Sigh . . .

Michael Coslo

I commiserate. I wonder if there ia a way we can help, with sending error logs to FlexRadio Systems. I have my logs from the last update when it failed, but if we could get some guidance, maybe we could participate in sussing this out. As well, a lot of people with problems may need some instructions on finding those logs. The tough part of this problem is that it is a like a slow motion game of Whack-a-Mole. 8^)

Peter K1PGV

>My creator's update took a long time as well.

Yes, this update does take a LONG time to install.

>I understand that Microsoft is shifting toward more or
>less rewriting the whole OS with many of these updates

Well, nothing quite so dramatic, fortunately. Windows (what you get when you install a retail copy of the system) comprises about 3.5 million source code files.  Seriously. It's a big system. The OS (kernel-mode code) itself is a small part of that(several tens of thousands of files, if I had to guess, I've never counted), and has remained relatively stable with evolutionary -- but not revolutionary -- changes for the past several years. For example, there are relatively few significant kernel-level OS changes between RS1 and RS2.

But there is no doubt a LOT is changing overall.  Mostly stuff up in user land to do with the visual interfaces.

>I have my logs from the last update when it failed,
>but if we could get some guidance, maybe we could
>participate in sussing this out.

I'd love to help root-cause this problem.

But I'm sorry to say that it's extremely unlikely that information from the basic system Event Log will help.

If there's a DRIVER issue, the best place we're likely to find information about the problem is in the log file "setupapi.dev.log" (typically in the windowsinf or windows  directory).  You can also look at setupapi.app.log for application setup information.

There are a lot of moving parts. I think the first thing we need to do is to get a clear description of exactly what the problem is.  Specifically:

1. What was working before the problem... What version of Windows and what version of SSDR et al?
   
   
2. What update happened?
   
   
3. What problem occurred.  In other words, what was the specific behavior afterwards that's now classified as "SSDR doesn't work"

Because there are so many moving parts, I suspect we're going to see a wide variety of differing problems listed for item 3, above.  That's what makes sussing this out so difficult.  I suspect we're dealing with multiple behaviors, and multiple different problems. And SOME of these problems are interactions among various components.  You have a default sound device or two in your system... Now you add the SSDR VAX devices.  The order in which these devices are discovered will impact the roles they are assigned by default in the system.

For example, if I had to guess, I'd say AC5AA's problem of "no audio" (removed, reinstalled, no fix) probably has something to do default sound device settings... and adjusting the settings in the sound control panel applet will resolve this.  But that's a guess.

And, I know we have a whole group of "COM ports are borked" problems.

I'm sure that's not as helpful as anybody would like... but that's my current thinking on this issue.

Peter
K1PGV

Michael Coslo

It is a moving target sort of problem, and with all the different levels of user acumen it's difficult to pin down. I do doubt my error logs will show much - but are there if anyone wants them. 

Which is why I think that until W10 matures - if ever - a little FlexRefresh program might be the psychological solution. If your radio doesn't work after a Windows update, you just run this program, and it "refreshes" your install. Then after 5 minutes,, you have a nice new install.  It's a bit of a cheat/workaraound, since it just does what you would manually do, but it feels better -  I imagine to many, it would just seem like "Okay, no big deal." Which would be better than the gnashing of teeth that happens now.

Peter K1PGV

>a little FlexRefresh program might >be the psychological solution I think that's an OUTSTANDING idea. Even if it does a uninstall/install and sets the defaults under the covers. That'd be a big help. Perhaps run it first on a working system to get a profile (which COM ports are set up for example). Peter K1PGV

James Whiteway

It seems to me in my case, as long as I do not install the CAT and DAX  (I currently don't do digital stuff) I have no issues when Win10 updates. On the other hand, when I first installed SSDR on my Win10 machine (CAT, DAX and all) I had issues similar to others here when Win10 did an update. Uninstalling everything including the CAT and DAX  and only reinstalling SSDR fixed the issue. And since then, each Win10 update has not effected SSDR. (as long as I remember to not install CAT and DAX with any new versions of SSDR) It could be a driver signing issue. I know that Visual Studio 2017 wasn't happy with my code for the radio until I messed with the certificates that it wanted for my app. Don't remember what I did exactly, but, it doesn't complain near as much about running the program as it did!
james
WD5GWY

Tim - W4TME

It could be a driver signing issue.

It is not.

It appears that Windows doesn't handle upgrading virtual drivers for things that are usually hardware centric, like sound devices and serial ports.

Tim - W4TME

The best practice is to remove SmartSDR and all of its components (dax drivers) prior to doing any major Win10 update.  It only takes a few moments and then re-install after the update is done.  I have never experienced an issue using this method. 

Peter K1PGV

>Windows doesn't handle upgrading virtual drivers
>for things that are usually hardware centric, like
>sound devices and serial ports.

Yup.

You (Tim) have seen and thought about this problem far more than I have.  But I think the problem isn't keeping the drivers running through the upgrade so much as it is re-establishing the settings that driver uses after the upgrade.

We know, for example, that the sound device settings (which is your default audio device) can change when you add or remove a sound device.  Windows tries to be clever and choose a new default audio device based on... something.  And it varies based on the order the devices are installed in (or, after an update, the order in which the device are discovered).

That's my best guess as to what's going wrong.  Things like COM port numbers and audio devices have external numbering dependencies... and those dependencies get scrambled during the upgrade.

Does that make sense given your experience, Tim?  Or am I down the wrong path?

Peter
K1PGV

Michael Coslo

Remove before or after seems like the same thing. I have had some updates that warned me that it was going to automatically shut down and reboot in the middle of the night, so I guess if I hadn'r seen it, it would have just happened. 

And everyone should remember that this is not a SSDR only issue. I've dealt with a lot of NBEMS people who suddenly lose their audio, and occasionally a few other controls after an update. 

It's our penance. 8^)

Tim - W4TME

Remove before or after seems like the same thing.

Not really.  The upgrade may mess with settings that could prevent the clean uninstall of the SmartSDR software.  It is always best to uninstall SmartSDR it before the upgrade if at all possible.  It has worked flawlessly for me.

John AE5X

My Creator update occurred this morning and all was well except DAX. Uninstalled SSDR per Tim's guideline, reinstalled and all is well.

Surprisingly, all my profiles were there without me having to import them into the new installation - I would have thought they would have been deleted with the very specific 11 step uninstall procedure.

John AE5X

VE7ATJ_Don

Just to update everyone on this... the laptop went back to the 'geeks' who had exactly the same difficulties installing printer drivers.  After a week, their solution was to completely install Win10 1703 (Creators) from scratch.  Don't know why but 'voila' -- printer drivers install correctly and everything is working fine (so far :-))