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PowerGenius Tuner

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Answers

  • Richard McClelland, AA5S
    Richard McClelland, AA5S Member ✭✭
    edited June 2017
    Point taken.  Would you include a delta loop in the list of undesirable antennas?  I have one that has good SWR on some bands and pretty atrocious SWR on others.  This seems like a reasonable use case for a tuner with an amp, presuming that I were to use an amp, which I don't.
  • Varistor
    Varistor Member
    edited June 2017
    Is this a horizontal delta fed in one of the corners? If so, why not build several deltas that share the same feed point? If this is a classic delta, vertically oriented with a feed point 1/3 along one of the sides, I'd argue you have the space for other resonant antennas. These days we are very blessed with zillions of books on antenna design. There is always a way.
  • Richard McClelland, AA5S
    Richard McClelland, AA5S Member ✭✭
    edited June 2017
    I'd like to solve my antenna problem by buying 5 acres and putting up an Optibeam log periodic for 14 to 28 mhz, a full sized horizontal delta loop for 1.8 to 10 mhz and remoting a v2.0 Flex at the base.  I just spent what seems like enough to do that on three weeks in Tahiti with my family, so maybe this will need to wait for another time :-)
  • HCampbell  WB4IVF
    HCampbell WB4IVF Member ✭✭
    edited June 2017

    We’ve got acreage but it’s taken up by my beverages, much to my wife’s chagrin.  I can just see her face when I tell her I just found out I need to cram in yet more antennas to achieve ”complete resonance”!    (-:

    Howard



  • Varistor
    Varistor Member
    edited June 2017
    It all boils down to making tradeoffs. The horizontal full size loop is a great cloud burner. That is, unless very high above the ground, it shoots straight up. Its purpose has always been to cover well the skip zone. Further, the horizonantal loop is best fed with either open line followed by a balun and a tuner or with a remote tuner at the feed point. So the tradeoff that I am referring to is whether or not one would spend all that money on essentially local ragchewing. As different people get different enjoyment out of ham radio the answer will depend on your own goals.
  • Ria
    Ria Member ✭✭
    edited June 2017
    If you have a beam on 40 meters (except a SteppIR, which I have) then it will likely be tuned to the CW or phone portion but not both. The tuner makes up for that. I also have a vertical on 80m which is resonant on the CW portion but I have to use the tuner on SSB.

    Also during a contest anything can happen...
  • Varistor
    Varistor Member
    edited June 2017
    The laws of physics apply equally to all of us. The coax acts as a transformer so a 1:1 match at the tuner does not equal 1:1 match at the antenna feed line...unless of course you cut it to the specific electric length. That is, your tuner in the shack does nothing to improve the match at the antenna which is the one match that really matters. There is a good reason why antenna analyzers should be calibrated for the length and type of your coax before you do any measurements.
  • Ria
    Ria Member ✭✭
    edited July 2017
    This is exactly why the tuner genius is engineered so it can be at the antenna end, base of the tower etc. 

    But what a tuner does is allow my transceiver and amplifier to output full power and not shut down due to protection. Otherwise I have no need for it. 

    Put another way - an antenna that has a slight mismatch is still almost as good as a perfectly matched antenna. Except that my transceiver and amplifier refuses to transmit into it for fear of damage. Tuner solves that. 
  • Larry - WA7LZO
    Larry - WA7LZO Member ✭✭
    edited November 2019
    Hi Ria,

    Does your SteppIR give you a near perfect 1:1 match if you take the time to tune it for any given operating freq, even when making fairly small movements in freq, such as when moving from the CW portion to the phone portion of any particular band?

    Just curious, as I am considering buying the SteppIR DB-42, and figure if I take the time to tune for each freq, I may not need a tuner. I don't do contests, and the like, so I have no need to move fast when changing freqs.

    Thanks!

    Br,
    Larry
    WA7LZO
  • Ria
    Ria Member ✭✭
    edited June 2017
    Hi Larry,

    The antenna will be matched and it won't matter if you move a little. If you move from CW to phone, however, it will be mismatched a bit, I would say 2:1 on 40 phone when it's tuned to the CW portion. However, why not just put a CAT cable and use the tuning relay to unkey your amp when QSYing? Auto switching frequency is a dream. No fiddling with the controller, no mistakes either! Just QSY and wait for it to finish.

    Ria

  • Larry - WA7LZO
    Larry - WA7LZO Member ✭✭
    edited June 2017
    Nice! Sounds like a fully automatic solution!

    Larry
  • Ria
    Ria Member ✭✭
    edited June 2017
    The best way to control it at current is DDUtil. You can set it to follow the transmit slice and you can do 180, bi-dir and fwd, retract and calibrate. REally good stuff.
  • Larry - WA7LZO
    Larry - WA7LZO Member ✭✭
    edited June 2017
    Ria, do you know if Flex has said if this particular SteppIR control logic might be incorporated and integrated into a future sw release? 
  • Ria
    Ria Member ✭✭
    edited June 2017
    I don't know. It would probably good for them to do it though. 

    Publicly they haven't said anything of the sort. 
  • KY6LA_Howard
    KY6LA_Howard La Jolla, CA. Paris and Sablet FranceMember ✭✭✭
    edited June 2017
    @Larry.

    I have had a SteeppIR MonstIR (seriial #1) since 2005. It covers 80M to 6M and EVERY band in between including 60M

    With a bit of work setting it up by band and tower height (Height does affect patterns/SWR due to interaction with nearby objects) I can get very close to 1:1

    I Have NEVER used a tuner or ATU with it even in Contests Run full power on an SPE 2K-FA and it barely gets hot.

    I use DDUTIL Because the Flex USB control only gives Band data which is not sufficient for my purposes to control the antenna. DDUTIL always forward and reverse,direction, calibration and retraction of elements.

    In contests Reversing the antenna almost instantly by pushing a button and not having to wait for rotation is worth a lot of extra Q's.

    I also assembled and installed the DB-42 Serial #1 for WA3IHV. Great antenna as well.
  • mikeatthebeach .
    mikeatthebeach . Member ✭✭
    edited July 2017
    Note to the SWR limits

    Lesson's learned by SPE the Hard Way !

    SPE 2K-FA SWR Tuner is about 3:1 ( say about 2.7:1 now), You must
    watch out, SPE started with the 1K-FA years ago with ( 3:1 ) & lost many amps
    due to High Voltage breaking down the Internal Antenna Tuner 
    Caps and Filters at High SWR's until they up the Voltage Ratings 
    on the capacitors

    Many PA deck's blew up !!!

    Almost sunk SPE Amps back then until they fixed the problem with the 1K-FA 
    and implemented new designs in their new 2K-FA and 1.3KFA

    At extreme phase's and SWR's Part's get hot, like the Toroid's, start to
    **** to high currents and the Cap's breakdown

    So, I hope they bullet proof the Tuner Genius otherwise it could be damaging 
    to itself and the Power Genius XL Amp.
  • mikeatthebeach .
    mikeatthebeach . Member ✭✭
    edited July 2017
    The Palstar HF Auto with it's Auto Air-Inductor and Air Cap
    really handle 1.5Kw out where the other tuners are tuned only at driver levels
    < 100 watts ( Like SPE ), then preset at fixed positions before 1.5Kw is applied.

    SPE nevers tunes at 1.5Kw out, that will destroy their Tuner !!
  • Ria
    Ria Member ✭✭
    edited March 2018
    Tuner is separate and not part of the amp.
  • Lucas - W6AER
    Lucas - W6AER Member ✭✭
    edited June 2019
    Looks like it has been a year since the last post, any news on the Tuner? Possible Availability?
  • HCampbell  WB4IVF
    HCampbell WB4IVF Member ✭✭
    edited November 2018

    From the 11/2/2018 PG XL Insider:

    “Since we have been primarily focused on delivering the amplifier, work on Tuner Genius has been temporarily delayed. Once we resume production shipment flow, we will return to completion of testing and production roll out of the tuner.”

    Howard

  • Lucas - W6AER
    Lucas - W6AER Member ✭✭
    edited November 2018
    Thanks, I think there is a lot of interest in this product so hopefully they will resume soon on it now that it appears the amp is ready again to roll out. I would love to see perhaps ethernet on it much like the Antenna Genius to allow for remote or out of the way installation perhaps, not sure what the plans are but can't wait.
  • HCampbell  WB4IVF
    HCampbell WB4IVF Member ✭✭
    edited November 2018

    According to the specs the tuner will be controllable via LAN or CAT, so I think you’ll be happy with it, at least in that regard.  But I wouldn’t at all be surprised if testing and fixes/tweaking extend well into next year.  The tuner is where the rubber meets the road, and I’m sure it’ll have some well-tested protections to help keep us out of trouble.  (-:

      Howard
  • philip.theis
    philip.theis Member
    edited November 2018
    Love the use of N connectors.

  • K1UO - Larry
    K1UO - Larry Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 2018
    I would expect to see a more refined "pre-release" unit displayed at Dayton next Spring.
  • Chuck Smith
    Chuck Smith Member
    edited December 2018
    No ones put on order ($1K down) in 2017 will get the Tuner, not delivered in2017
  • Larry - WA7LZO
    Larry - WA7LZO Member ✭✭
    edited December 2018

    Guys, I think we may be spinning our wheels just a little bit here. Let's pls give Flex an adequate amount of quality time, whatever it may take, to first and foremost get the PGXL amp working like a champ. After the PGXL Killer Amp is 100% good-to-go, then Flex can do the next project on their to do list, the PG Tuner. In the meantime, let's not rush them. They've got plenty on their plate right now with tweaking-up the amp. Like a lot of you, my plans include both the PGXL amp and the Tuner, but I can certainly operate the amp with alternate tuners, until such time down the road that Flex rolls out their awesome PG Tuner. I'd like to let Flex keep their head down to the grindstone, focused like a laser on the PGXL amp, and then, and only then, turn their attention to the Tuner. Let's keep in mind they do not have 1,000 employees working for them like Icom, which is probably why Flex can afford to be so extremely creative, in the first place. Everything has trade-offs.For my money, I will gladly trade some extra amount of needed quality development time on the PGXL amp to ensure excellent delivered product quality, right out of the starting gate, juxtaposed to having to go back to the drawing board.
  • HCampbell  WB4IVF
    HCampbell WB4IVF Member ✭✭
    edited December 2018

    That’s pretty much what I’m expecting.  I imagine a reliable autotuner closely integrated with Flex radios, capable of remote and standalone ops, with good safeguards will take a lot of time to test and tweak to get right.  Especially the safeguards, since there appear to be a lot of fearless ones out there. (-:

    Howard

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