Is a more structured Alpha/Beta program needed?

Jay Nation

Folks
If your not comfortable, having a little fun, then skip the fun parts. Just sit there on the sidelines and watch the rest of us play. Better yet, watch  it in the comfort of your own home on YouTube. 
Just do whatever makes you unhappy. 
We won't really mind.
73, Jay - NO5J

Chris DL5NAM

... what a helpful information. Your the greatest, so we now can stop here and close thread?

Jay Nation

Can we at least close it early Tuesday?

73, Jay - NO5J

Burt Fisher

I wonder if Flex is paying for all shipping if their Maestro is DOU? (dead on upgrade)

Cal N3CAL

Burt,

My DOU Maestro is already on it's way back to Austin for repair.  Flex has paid for shipping both ways.  Top notch customer service once again.  

Cal/N3CAL

K1UO Larry

...or was that three to the right and two to the left.... ..  Mecca you say?

Walt - KZ1F

And these 'bunch' more engineers are going to be paid with the proceeds of the $200 upgrade fee?

Walt - KZ1F

Yup, totally agree Bill. As a former development manager and PSE, myself, yeah, I think you're spot on. But understand, as you've seen, there are some on here that take a suggestion like that as a personal attack as they feel it is their sworn duty to defend FRS's honour.

[Deleted User]

Yup right to the point that I know nothing about software development and I am "ignorant"

[Deleted User]

Well then don't read them . . . That is your right. Maybe you ought to stop bashing me every time I make a statement. Keep your ignorance to yourself.

Walt - KZ1F

Burt, did you and your friends, when you were all 9 or 10 (were you ever a kid and did you ever have friends?), take scrap plywood and 2x4 and make a rocket for you all to go to the moon? Software development is complex and multidimensional. For that matter so is teaching, what would your reaction be if this topic were all about, ' hey, solving public education issues aren't hard, just double up on class size and fire 1/2 the teachers.

I was just ribbing you on those two stream of consciousness questions.

KC2QMA_John

It’s not all doom and gloom. Flex has an awesome platform with the 6000 series and Maestro and in my opinion could easily dominate the market. Yes there is a “window of opportunity”. Like I said they may have already “hired” more staff for development? But look they laid the groundwork with the 6000 series hardware, in my opinion now is the time to kick software development into high gear because to me that’s what is holding the platform back from taking off in the market.

As the software stands today (other than the occasional bugs) it basically does what it needs to do to be a great functional radio and DSP works fairly good at this stage. Let me say again I love my flex there is no better option out there for me. I know in time the software will become more of what we all want, the question is how long will it take to get there...?

David Decoons, wo2x

If you are not an alpha tester then your Maestro should not have received the alpha build. I suggest you contact Flex about that. Dave wo2x

EA4GLI

But is Radio Equipment in our hobby really an appliance for the masses? I think ease of use is good, simpler interfaces mostly welcomed, but I think that an SDR amateur radio is just not a device that anyone that reads a manual can use. We are talking about radio frequency, voltages, antennas, patch cables, etc... With a networked radio a familiarity with networking concepts goes a long way. It might be in the best interest of many to read about and understand concepts like TCP, UDP, Latency, Jitter, etc...

I don't disagree that a fresh set of eyes in the Alpha team might be necessary, I am sure Flex has to look at what has happened and make some decisions and most of the advice from users in here is pretty sound.

But I do think that sometimes we forget that this is just no like a usb webcam that you plug in, drivers install and off you go to skype to your hearts content.

EA4GLI

But is Radio Equipment in our hobby really an appliance for the masses? I think ease of use is good, simpler interfaces mostly welcomed, but I think that an SDR amateur radio is just not a device that anyone that reads a manual can use. We are talking about radio frequency, voltages, antennas, patch cables, etc... With a networked radio a familiarity with networking concepts goes a long way. It might be in the best interest of many to read about and understand concepts like TCP, UDP, Latency, Jitter, etc...

I don't disagree that a fresh set of eyes in the Alpha team might be necessary, I am sure Flex has to look at what has happened and make some decisions and most of the advice from users in here is pretty sound.

But I do think that sometimes we forget that this is just no like a usb webcam that you plug in, drivers install and off you go to skype to your hearts content.

EA4GLI

In all fairness Steven, your comment could easily be turned around and used to reply to you..... You made a comment about needed new Alpha testers... that could be understood as bashing the current Alpha testers.

I think we all need to relax a bit, enjoy the family day tomorrow, try to work those "Original 13 Colonies special event" and stop attacking each other. 

Burt Fisher

The recent demise of the Maestro was not caught by the Alpha testers however that is not a reflection of their competency. In fact they may be far more competent than the average amateur and therein may be the problem. If you want to test software you don't give it to Bill Gates, you give it to Joe the plumber, and not just 50 Joes. Flex made a mistake, everybody makes them, let's see if they learned from it.

Walt - KZ1F

Although...I would argue that it IS. Thirty plus years ago, not so much. many people built their rigs or fixed their rigs, in the tests to get licensed you had to know sh&t. And op had to know how to even tune their rig, antenna tuners...forget about it. Now, the testing is idiot simple, rigs do all the work for you, turn it on, press the mike off you go. Radios now are appliances. If you can press a button, you can start the radio. If you can start the browser, you can start SSDR. There is an expectation that button pressing is the only requirement.

It is this expectation that a t puts the onus of stability on the people that design and build the radio's. If a legacy radio had a MTBF of a couple of months, word would eventually get out. If ...where windows had to be rebooted once or twice per day, word, eventually, got out. The brilliance of Microsoft lies in their proven ability to convince the consumer market it was perfectly acceptable to have unstable software, moreover, that it should be expected. In the commercial environment it was/is neither expected nor acceptable. In the consumer environment, bsod, is a punch line. In the commercial environment, it signals time to choose a new vendor.

So would it be helpful for everyone to have a Master's degree level of computer science understanding? Sure, if they were planning a career in it. But it's probably not required to understand if one time out of one hundred when they started their browser it crashed that something wasn't right.

EA4GLI

OK Walt, but I am not asking people to go back to school and get a degree in CIS, I am talking about reading about networking which is an important part of how 6xxx radios work.

Burt Fisher

I didn't have many friends when I was 9 but I am making up for it now but with 9 year olds. I am by far the most popular (and strict) teacher in the 4th and 5th grades. I make mistakes in the classroom but don't hide them and secretly tell the principal but not apologize to the students. My analogy is wanting but my point is if you have something to add, add it publically but if you feel you must keep it private don't publically brag about it. I had a teen student years ago who wanted me to evaluate her singing, I said ask your other teachers, they are more qualified . She said, "no, they will all tell me I'm great, you will tell me the truth." The point being for Alpha testers it appears as Flex got the "other teachers."

Walt - KZ1F

I didn't imply a degree, just that level of understanding. When I mentioned Nagle's Algorithm last night, did you immediately know what I was referring too? In that case you may well have but I am kind of curious, right now how many are googling Nagle. Would it be helpful? Yeah, maybe. My point was merely should it be a requirement to understand the Flex? BTW, my friend, great conversation...marathon conversation. Thanks, that was completely fun and enjoyable.

Burt Fisher

Clearly the intellect here is beyond me that's why you need some testers that are more average. I once raced a Corvette, I was in a VW bug. The race was 1/4 mile, I won because the Corvette did not take into account the gravel surface and spun his tires. Flex is the Corvette but they need to take into account the average user.

EA4GLI

Why is a Yagi antenna called Yagi?
Why should you have impedance match on the antenna port of your radio?
Why should you ground your equipment?

I would imagine that for the majority here those are simple questions to answer.
But what about these......

What is Network Jitter? 
What is Class A private IP address?
What is the difference between CAT5, CAT6, CAT7?
What is the meaning of APIPA? And DHCP?

Walt - KZ1F

I wish I knew more about M theory, which is why I have a couple of Lisa Randall books. I wish I had Neal DeGrasse Tyson's level of understanding of Cosmology.

Walt - KZ1F

Burt, you, likely as much or more than others, have taken comments I've made, many serious,  as challenges and confrontational. This has sparked, what I know now  to  anticipate, a reaction akin to people feeling they need to defend their girlfriends honour. That was not bragging, it was merely a stmt that as one professional to another I attempted to add perspective and advice. This is a complicated issue and there are a lot of variables in the 'equation'. Some people here know my background, more don't, and yet even more could give a rat's **** less.  I wasn't really addressing the later two categories.. Oh, to be sure, there is some rampant NPD on here. I am not one of them. I don't try to 'strut my stuff' with the PhD's in EE or ME as, I can't compete in that ring. In the software engineering arena, I can, and do, add value. So, to put it in your arena, how do you feel about warehousing and the people who volunteer that as a viable solution to a far more nuanced problem? In other words, there are arenas where you can compete intellectually, very well. This topic, perhaps, isn't one of them. However that  does, in no way, imply they don't exist. If we were in a local property tax funded public education conversation, yes, I'd assume your thoughts, experience, and suggestions would be well backed and worthy of serious consideration. Rather than precipitate a mud sling of credential questioning, you might opt to make a simple stmt and then drop it. Clearly, that didn't work so well. But rather than not respond at all, I thought framing it in terms you would get, might add perspective.

VE6KWA

<<< If you want to test software you don't give it to Bill Gates, you give it to Joe the plumber, and not just 50 Joes. Flex made a mistake, everybody makes them, let's see if they learned from it.>>>  
  
 Burt...Given that you "know" that Flex made a mistake with their Alpha testers , why don't you tell the rest of us how many Alpha testers there are and comment on their demographics so the rest of us can determine if they "made a mistake" as well ??  We all know what happens when you **** U ME 

Dave - W6OVP

Flex has an awesome platform with the 6000 series and Maestro and in my opinion could easily dominate the market. Yes there is a “window of opportunity”.

Spot on! The basic product concept is so "awesome" that frustration is caused by what it could be (and was advertised to be) while the progress continues halting and snail-like. Time is an integral part of this scenario, both for the competition which is working day and night, and we hopeful buyers who are not getting any younger.

Is moss beginning to grow at FLEX HQ? Windows of opportunity do not remain open very long and slam shut quickly and often without notice. This window is no longer new. The business plan has to reflect this urgency.

(But there is no moss at FLEX Customer Service and Tech Support which are First Rate!)

Jay Nation

I wish everyone had Neal DeGrasse Tyson's level of understanding, of anything and everything. It might make things like learning, and curiosity popular again.

73, Jay - NO5J

Walt - KZ1F

I'd phase that differently Jay. If more people had curiosity, more people would have something close to his level of understanding. Plus or minus, we all have the inherent ability. It is indifference that is the friction. How many people watch Nova, Frontline?. I don't have the advanced physics for Cosmology yet.

Jay Nation

Walt

I've always been curious, since birth even. I expect I'l be curious the day I die. I try to learn everything, there is a big difference between "I've heard of that, or "I saw that once" and learning. Learning is the step that follows, Huh? Whazzat. Just because some new discovery didn't **** you, doesn't mean it's safe to ignore it. There is more to survival than avoiding being eaten. "HOT! mustn't touch, No!", should be learned early, but knowing why, might not do you any harm either.  There's more to getting old, than just dumb luck. Naw! I don't wanna mess with all that, just do it for me, may not get it done.

Imagine what life could be like, If we all paid a little more attention.

There might have been less Word Salad, if I'd done a better job of learning to explain myself!

73, Jay - NO5J