SmartSDR 64 bit

dlwarnberg

Is there is talk or plans for a 64 bit version of SmartSDR?

Thanks

David

K6OZY

I'd be curious why you think there is a need for 32 more bits?

dlwarnberg

Most windows systems are now 64 bit.. 64 bit programs take advantage of multi core processors better then 32 bit ones do under a 64 bit operating system and that's just for starters...  is there a need? probably not.... yet

K6OZY

You are incorrect.

64-bit has no link with CPU (or core) count.  No idea where you heard that.   A 64-bit version of the app requires separate compilation, which requires more development time to maintain.  64-bit apps can access > 2GB, which isn't a current limiting factor for the 32-bit app.  Since SmartSDR does no radio processing, there isn't any DSP reason either.  DirectX acceleration works the same for the Spectrum/WF in 32-bit vs 64-bit.  It just doesn't make business sense to waste the time yet.

There is nothing wrong with the app remaining as a 32-bit application until a business need arises.

Tim - W4TME

At one time SmartSDR was 64-bit.  But one of the modules used for DAX will not compile properly for 64-bit processors so if one module is forced to be 32-bit, they all have to be 32-bit.

dlwarnberg

@K6OZY - 32 bit V 64 bit core and OS..

The number of bits in a processor refers to the size of the data types that it handles and the size of its registry. A 64-bit processor is capable of storing 264 computational values, including memory addresses, which means it’s able to access over four billion times as much physical memory than a 32-bit processor!

The key difference: 32-bit processors are perfectly capable of handling a limited amount of RAM, and 64-bit processors are capable of utilizing much more. Of course, in order to achieve this, your operating system also needs to be designed to take advantage of the greater access to memory. 

As a general rule, if you have under 4 GB of RAM in your computer, you don’t need a 64-bit CPU, but if you have 4 GB or more, you do. While many users may find that a 32-bit processor provides them with enough performance and memory access, applications that tend to use large amounts of memory may show vast improvements with the upgraded processor. Image and video editing software, 3D rendering utilities, and video games will make better use of a 64-bit architecture and operating system, especially if the machine has 8 or even 16 GB of RAM that can be divided among the applications that need it.

Now as the digital trends continue and more and more programs running on my PC the more processing power demands raise... it's not uncommon for me to run SmartSDR (4 slices) a logging program, 2 digital programs listening on different slices, etc..... with all this, the more efficient a program can be the better.

Thanks

dlwarnberg

Tim, thank you

K6OZY

Huh?  Is this a copy / paste from some website?  It has nothing to do with your issue with SmartSDR remaining 32-bit.   

I'm not saying to use a 32-bit CPU, neither were you initially.  I'm not saying to use a 32-bit OS at all.  This should all stay 64-bit obviously.   I'm simply saying that requiring SmartSDR to be 64-bit is unnecessary.   32-bit binaries and 64-bit binaries will be handled just fine by the 64-bit OS.  The ONLY limitation will be that the 32-bit binary will only see 2GB of memory even if the OS contains much more.

Windows 64-bit uses a WOW64 compatibility layer to run 32-bit programs and natively execute them.  There is no emulation.  There is no performance penalty.

K6OZY

Yep, it was:  https://www.coursehero.com/file/12274631/Exam-1-ReviewStudy-Guide/

dlwarnberg

Not sure why this is an argument or why you insist it is or where there is an issue... my original post was merely asking if there where plans for a 64 bit version.. to remind you.

"Is there is talk or plans for a 64 bit version of SmartSDR?"

Nothing more, nothing less..

Have a nice day

K6OZY

I'm not arguing.  I'm preventing false information from remaining unchallenged.  There are too many ignorant computer users on the internet who will read your post and take it as fact.  You stated "Most windows systems are now 64 bit.. 64 bit programs take advantage of multi core processors better then 32 bit ones do under a 64 bit operating system and that's just for starters... " inferring that if Flex compiled SmartSDR in 64-bit there would be a noticeable improvement "just because it's 64-bit."  

But when challenged why you think that is necessary, you proceeded to google and paste information that had nothing to do with your statement.    This means that you also do not understand the inner workings of these operating systems and are simply restating things read or said from other ignorant users.  I am trying to educate you and others who may read this of the reasons that Flex is not rushing to compile it to 64-bit, not argue.

Also, remember that the word "ignorant" is not derogatory.   I'm very ignorant on many things, but computers I am not.

DrTeeth

 @ K6OZY
Too true. There seems to be the mistaken idea that 64 bit programs are inherently better/faster than 32 bit programs when that is definitely not the case. In fact, some 32 bit programs work better than their 64 bit versions.

Walt - KZ1F

But doesn't everybody want "the bigger GeeBees"? That was sarcasm btw. A play on the YouTube video iPhone 4 vs EVO.

Walt - KZ1F

But doesn't everybody want "the bigger GeeBees"? That was sarcasm btw. A play on the YouTube video iPhone 4 vs EVO.

dlwarnberg

Your post "Windows 64-bit uses a WOW64 compatibility layer to run 32-bit programs and natively execute them.  There is no emulation.  There is no performance penalty."

"According to Microsoft, 32-bit software running under WOW64 has similar performance to executing under 32-bit Windows, but with fewer threads possible and other overheads.
A 32-bit application can be given a full 4 gigabytes of virtual memory of a 64-bit system, whereas on a 32-bit system, some of this addressable memory is lost because it is used by the kernel and memory-mapped peripherals such as the display adapter."  Similar does not equal Same

I too work in the IT field.. over 20 years experience working in the field.. now in Corporate IT Security not to compare resume's.. I just do not have the time to sit down and write out a dissertation, because I'm working...

K6OZY

0.1% difference is the same. Like Guy said, there are some apps that run faster as 32-bit. But with today's modern CPUs, there is no difference. Back when 64-bit conversion started, maybe so.

K6OZY

Workload context should be taken into consideration. SmartSDR is not a CPU-heavy app, so the main benefits of 64-bit optimization is unneeded. Oh, and I don't work in IT. I work in Operations. Big difference. I don't have to deal with ignorant users all day.

DrTeeth

My 32 bit zip utility (PowerArchiver) is faster than their 64 bit version. They will only produce the latter for public relations reasons if the pressure builds. I understand that MSoft Office 32 bit has very similar performance to the 64 bit version too. Also, 32 bit programs run better under x64 than they do on x86 - something due to the way that virtual memory is handled IIRC.

dlwarnberg

I respectfully disagree... prime example and I can provide performance documentation to prove my point... maybe, it may be a violation of confidential information.. however current project I am working on. I have performance data for both the older 32 bit version of the software and the 64 bit version..  Basically this is a credit card tokenization product (wont go into details here).

Bottom line, 32 bit version can handle approximately 40,000 transactions per second per device.. new 64 bit version can handle over 4 million transactions per second with less then a 3% cpu load increase over same volume.

I do not see the performance data on their site but the product I'm referring to is: https://www.voltage.com/ 

K6OZY

"Workload context should be taken into consideration. SmartSDR is not a CPU-heavy app, so the main benefits of 64-bit optimization is unneeded."

dlwarnberg

lets just go back to windows 3.0 and 16 bit

K6OZY

Remember this?  I remember how uncomfortable that was to watch live.  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAkuJXGldrM

KY6LA_Howard

Proving again that Nerds Can't Dance

Joe - KC2TN

I was at the 3.1 launch when Gates was at the Trenton Computerfest as the Keynote speaker. I know he was uncomfortable when it kept crashing. Early training for future releases I guess!