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Audio Scope

WW1SS - SteveWW1SS - Steve Member
edited April 10 in New Ideas
Is there any future plans to enhance the Smart SDR with an audio scope like there is on the Icom 7300 and TS 990? Can it even be done??
3 votes

Open for Comments · Last Updated

Comments

  • WW1SS - SteveWW1SS - Steve Member
    edited April 10
    Any idea when it might be implemented . . . Joke
  • Tim - W4TMETim - W4TME Administrator, FlexRadio Employee admin
    edited December 2016
    Yes, next week! (another joke :-D )
  • Joe BeldenJoe Belden Member
    edited July 2016
    I believe this could be done as a side app via the API couldn't it?  when I peaked at the wiki it looked like the right calls were there for the C# libraries, but I didn't dive deep either.


  • WW1SS - SteveWW1SS - Steve Member
    edited April 10
    I'm sure it could but I would like to see it in Smart SDR and not "another" side app to run.
    Could use one of the scope apps out there already and set up a DAX channel for that.
  • Joe BeldenJoe Belden Member
    edited July 2016
    Ah... the newbie I am, I didn't realize there were already scope apps out there that would work with it.

  • EA4GLIEA4GLI Salvador Member ✭✭
    edited November 2016
    It's already implemented... Didn't you get the "special" smartsdr version? ;)
  • WW1SS - SteveWW1SS - Steve Member
    edited December 2016
    Isn't the new version called SmarterSDR
  • Clay N9IOClay N9IO Clay N9IO Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    Tim you poor soul, I feel for you man, ha...
  • EA4GLIEA4GLI Salvador Member ✭✭
    edited November 2016
    Lol, yes, the next one, will be SmartestSDR
  • km9r.mikekm9r.mike Member
    edited June 2016
    why wait ? get a 7300 or a 990. I will keep my Flex
  • WW1SS - SteveWW1SS - Steve Member
    edited December 2016
    I have a 7300 and I like it a lot. Also have a 6500 and Maestro will be here Monday or Tuesday. Shipping today.
  • km9r.mikekm9r.mike Member
    edited June 2016
    Then all your scope problems are solved unless the 990 has a better scope then you should probably get that rig as well.
  • WW1SS - SteveWW1SS - Steve Member
    edited December 2016
    Had a 990 and it was an excellent rig. All I did was ask if it could and would it possibly be implemented in smart SDR. For such an " advanced" radio some of this stuff should be right in smart SDR program like RTTY and PSK decode and encode. Why does everything have to be a seperate program.
  • km9r.mikekm9r.mike Member
    edited June 2016
    I prefer separate programs. Why re invent the wheel or why have it taking up space w/in SSDR ? As a matter of fact, I prefer that SSDR did not include a scope which would take up software space w/in the rig that could be better used imho for more important items. A scope is of zero value to me. 

    Perhaps it would be better for FRS to completely change it's business model. Change it to selling a basic SSDR suite (v2.0) and then individual customers could buy additional software suites to work in conjunction with the basic v2.0. These customized suites of software would need to be linked to a radio's model number to prevent software piracy. IE  a professional ssb suite w/ scope and improved eq, a professional digi mode suite w/ rtty decode etc.

    Stuff costs money, even writing software and if there were enough customers who valued say a scope then they could pay for that customized feature w/o other users having it incorporated into their SSDR.

    Just a thought.
  • Bill -VA3WTBBill -VA3WTB Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    When we buy Windows, I notice that Microsoft office is not part of the windows install. You have to buy it extra. Many other software companies do that.

    And the greatest thing about Flex is the API were all sorts of add ons are being made for it. sort of plug ins if you would. This leaves the SSDR light and not bogged down with extra software.
  • EA4GLIEA4GLI Salvador Member ✭✭
    edited November 2016
    I would be very disappointed if FRS goes that route, pay per feature. I think there is room for improvement in smartsdr, and added functionality is definitely one of the reasons I personally bought the product. A higher level of customization of the GUI would be great, understanding that a completely modifiable gui carries a heavier burden on tech support FRS could enable things like a button that takes you back to the default GUI settings (like sdr console). Audio scope, rtty decoding, etc... Could be elements of smartsdr that I can decide to display or not display.
  • Bill -VA3WTBBill -VA3WTB Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    No, I don't mean we would need to buy these features, just my point that windows have lots of programs out side of the main install as features.

    But SSDR is still young, I'm sure down the road things will come around as they make there way through the list they have. One nice thing about Flex is knowing it is always evolving and not standing still even though at times it seems slow.
  • Walt - KZ1FWalt - KZ1F Member
    edited November 2016
    Bill, Microsoft has a systems group and an application group. They both have products. Mike, Flex could create a separate window, detached from the main application window. Not to speak for you but I suspect why people prefer separate apps has more to do with forcing separate windows. For myself, I prefer compatibility, esp given the frequency of changes to the SSDR (the radio).
  • km9r.mikekm9r.mike Member
    edited June 2016
    Walt ....yes compatibility is key. I was just simply trying to say if a third party does it well then there imo there is no need for FRS to duplicate their work. For me n1mm is perfect and I do not want to see FRS devote time and energy into developing their version of a contest logger, however I understand that their are some users that would feel slighted if FRS did not produce a logger for them if another rig had a logger incorporated.

    Bill and Salvador.... I understand my pay to play proposal is probably a very unpopular suggestion but in the long run I think there is merit to the proposal.

    One ... Every user's definition of the ideal SDR (or transceiver ) and it's associated features is different. Hence there appears to be a lot of potentially rewarding bad behavior via the squeaky wheel gets the grease when squeaky's idea might not be that good after all at least for others.

    Two... As more and more features are added in an attempt to create the perfect rig for thousands of different users, then I see the potential for the rig's overall performance to decrease due to multiple processes running simultaneously and the future ability to add features common to all become more limited because there is simply no more memory left w/in the rig or the processing becomes too slow.

    Three... The basic version of SSDR would be the jack of all trades program and semi feature rich.Still a leader in the industry. However, a user could opt to purchase say the 6000 series SSB professional suite of software. You upload that suite of software into your flex and that is the only mode that the flex will be capable of however all processing power would be optimized for SSB. Perhaps noise mitigation for SSB is different than say noise mitigation for cw and as a result the SSB professional suite would be customized for such. Expanded eq, compression, etc.

    Four...finally not happy with the features provided in the basic version of SSDR well simply purchase the software suite that provides those features. For me that is a win win. Those who want a specific feature get that feature and those who do not want it will not receive it.

    To me this has the potential to lengthen the life span of the 6k series which adds value and perhaps a new direction for the 7k series with it's leading edge scu and adc.
  • VE2MBTVE2MBT Member
    edited December 2016
    you are so right...
  • Philip KA4KOEPhilip KA4KOE Member
    edited January 2018
    Never really figured out what the audio scope was good for except as "eye candy".
  • Paul BradbeerPaul Bradbeer Member
    edited June 2016
    Yes, I agree Philip. Perhaps someone will explain what the real benefit is?
  • KC9NRNKC9NRN Member
    edited October 2016
    I'll admit my first reaction to the Maestro was eye candy and then features, I have issues. 
  • Joe BeldenJoe Belden Member
    edited July 2016
    Well I would image you should be able to see it flattening the waveform at the top and bottom, which would indicate you're over driving your audio...  I'm sure there are others.   I'd like to find one to play with and see what it shows, but I'm not sure where to start.
  • Paul BradbeerPaul Bradbeer Member
    edited June 2016
    Sorry Joe, but I'm not convinced.  Modern radios have very effective ALC and compression circuitry, and setting mic gain and compression is easy enough already on virtually any rig. What would an 'audio scope' add?  Paul M0CVX
  • W7NGAW7NGA Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    Us old dinosaur hams think it is important to evaluate the signal you are radiating. On AM, you can check for distortion, percentage of modulation, hum. Same with RTTY and SSTV modulation/demodulation. I believe a cheap (and they are very cheap these days) oscilloscope a very important part of the ham shack. Of course, I actually enjoy spending time in the ham shack .. 

    An audio scope app has value ... but a hardware oscilloscope can be used for so much more.
  • Paul BradbeerPaul Bradbeer Member
    edited June 2016

    @W7NGA...well, I'm not exactly a spring chicken, and I am also an advocate of clean signals, but I'm still not sure what value an audio scope has in a rig like the 6000 series (I have a 6500). 

    Besides, many signals are already clean enough...until they get pushed in to a 'linear' amplifier which is either driven beyond its linear region or has poor IMD performance; a built-in audio scope won't help there...it's the final transmitted signal that is important.

     Given the choice I'd rather the software development effort went in to adaptive pre-distortion (to make my signal cleaner using modern SDR techniques) rather than an audio scope...

    Paul M0CVX (and AC5NO)

  • W7NGAW7NGA Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    Oscilloscopes are great fun ...
    As I said ... the hardware oscilloscope allows you to see the signal and artifacts at the antenna (post-amplifier). I agree with you that the time-domain audio app has reduced value with such a wonderful frequency-domain instrument available in SSDR. 
    My previous comments were related to using a hardware oscilloscope, not a windowed software app. Those apps are generally less than satisfying when looking at dynamic signals. The one in Fldigi isn't particularly useful, though the grandsons enjoy watching it
     
    W7NGA station -

    !image
  • W7NGAW7NGA Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    image

    Doing dishes in the kitchen ... Microsoft Surface Pro 4

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