5000 owners and Power SDR forgotten

Steve (N9SKM)

And you still have available updates from KE9NS. It is fairly uncommon for a company to announce they are discontinuing a product before it happens. 

What features is the radio lacking that you would like to have added that the updates are needed?

Bill -VA3WTB

Steve, I don't make use of most the features KE9NS has added, but I Like a few, such as auto black control on the panafall. And when clicking on CPU it brings up all kinds of info about the temp, time Volts. And a few others,,he does a great job.

Steve K9ZW

In the last 12 months I count something like 5 (FIVE) SmartsSDR update releases:

1. version 1.4.16 - June 2015

2. version 1.5.1 - October 2015

3. version 1.6.17 January 2016

4. version 1.6.21 February 2016

5. version 1.7.30 May 2016

As version 1.4.xx had only been release before Dayton 2015 by a month, I would include the version 1.4.xx upgrade to the versions 1.5.xx, 1.6.xx, and 1.7.xx major upgrades.

And all while building out the SmartSDR Ecosystem with the birthing of the Maestro!

Not too shabby of a series of upgrades!

73

Steve K9ZW

Bill -VA3WTB

Burt your comments are completely unfounded, but your opinions.

DrTeeth

With all fairness to Burt, "completely unfounded" and personal opinions are the most common type of post here. Burts are *no* less valid than any others posted.

Steve K9ZW

Opinion never should replace factual information. It is an opinion whether something might or might not happen in the future. It is a falsehood when the facts of history are denied. They extreme examples to help one understand this area: An acceptable opinion could be a statement that in your opinion one's kids are unlikely to marry before they are thirty. An falsehood would be to say it was your opinion that you were never born and didn't exist. Assertive statements lacking the "in my opinion " warning to readers invite factual challenges. Seems to be a hobby in our hobby to do this (in my opinion!). 73 Steve K9ZW

Pierre Martel

Bill as much other company did use a free software, flex also took  what the community did for free , so they also got some stuff from it.. Dont make me cry on that. they also took the decison to use that software to promote there hardware with a working setup. Then they decided to part from it.. first by using a propriatary firewire /usb simulation interface. thenby swithching to ssdr. they are also where they are cause of the free software.. 

Walt - KZ1F

Steve, in software development, it is very common for a company to pre-announce when they will drop support for something. They have a responsibility to their customers to let them transition to the next version of what have you.

Bill -VA3WTB

Pierre. It was Flex, Gerald, who wrote PSDR. Long hours in his basement, he had another person working with him, can't remember who it was. They worked day and night on it. That is were it started. And they made it open source. PSDR was at one time only a Flex thing, later other people began using it for free.

Pierre Martel

Yes and some other did wrote part of the code and found bugs.. Flex did gain from that.

Bill -VA3WTB

So, as to the point, I can't see where Flex has done anyone wrong by moving to SSDR. Considering the 1500, 3000, and the 5000 are still fully supported.

Pierre Martel

supported.. not upgraded.. that is not what you expect when you buy an sdr radio that is supposed to be the cutting edge technology.. You expect to have a fonctional hardware platform out of bug when you buy a standard radio. when you buy an SDR and pay the extra  for it, you expect more then what a regular hardware radio will give you.. I am even ready to pay for new stuff.. it is not a mather of cash. it is a mather of being drop from the upgrading path. The best selling point of SDR radio is the fact that if new subroutine become available to help in some way they can be implemented in the radio.. Now this is not true anymore with PSDR. I know the limitation of the hardware I dont ask to have 25 receiver on 7 band while txing on 3 other. That the hardware platform cant do it.. But a better dsp system to pull out of the noise the week signal I want to catch.. that could be done.. But not by flex.. 

DrTeeth

@ Pierre
"If Flex was looking at dropping developement on the f3k they should have said it. "

Companies have gone bankrupt doing this. They say that an enhanced product will be released next year and so, everybody stops buying from them. Their cashflow dries up and you do not see the next version.

I do feel your pain though. I do not have a solution for it either unfortunately. It is a risk we all take in one form or another when buying something.

If Flex folded tomorrow, I would have an expensive box that I could not sell, BUT it would still be a fine radio that would work.

I bought my Flex 6300 about a year and a half ago. Flex gave the SDR world a fine piece of software by making PSDR open source. Somebody has taken up the challenge of continuing development with, and this is the important bit, Flex's full co-operation.

Bill -VA3WTB

Ok I see what your saying, but not but not all fair comments.
Because the sales were not there, made little sense to keep updating the PSDR and not for other companies to use.. A very expensive project. But good news is KE9NS has picked it up and is doing really nice stuff with PSDR, and this is fully supported by flex.
I hope you are taking advantage of this.

I think if you talk to KE9NS about what you would like to see done, he will let you know if he can, noise mitigation as you said could improve.
There are others talking to him now ,helping him.

Pierre Martel

yes, every company can fold..  but that is not the case right now.. And yes company did fold cause they did not manage to tell there customer that they need to change platform or other thing.. but other did it with even more support from there customer cause they were still supporting there base.. Flex did a bitter sweet half of that, they still "support' the soft in case of new OS or other stuff like that. but they dont support implementing new stuff that could be done. cause implementing a dsp routine or other such stuff can be done multi platform. but it was there choice of not doing this.

Bill -VA3WTB

Yes they do support new stuff, that is what your missing, they work with him and helping with his upgrades to PSDR, He is doing the hard work and Flex is helping in any way he needs. This allows flex to roll along on SSDR with out putting man hours on PSDR,,but the outcome is the same,,it is being updated all the time right now.

And if you had looked into things better you would have noticed all the info on the plans Flex released on the slowdown and stopping releases to PSDR, I knew it was coming,,why didn't you?

You have nothing to complain about here, do you really think they should keep paying a tone of money upgrading something that other companies will enjoy?

Gerald-K5SDR

@Joe with no call Facts: 1. I personally started development of PowerSDR (then called SDRConsole) in 1999 and FlexRadio launched in 2003). 2. FlexRadio as a company performed 11 years of continuous open source development at its expense. With the exception of the DSP module ddtdsp, there is only a tiny amount of source code contributed by volunteer open source developers. Ddtdsp development was funded in part by the US government. 3. We announced End of Manufacturing of the FLEX-5000 in May of 2013 and the FLEX-3000 in September of 2014. We have not shipped new units since those dates. This information has been on our website since that time. 4. We have been completely transparent about the support of our products both in updating their status on our website and many communications here and in other venues as Steve referenced just above this post for example. This is VERY old news. 5. We continue to service and support all of our radios. In fact I saw a SDR-1000 in the repair shop this week being repaired. We ceased manufacturing of the SDR-1000 nine years ago. The oldest units are now 13 years old. We won't be able to repair them forever but we still do so far. I frequently meet customers who tell me they are still using and enjoying their SDR-1000 that still runs on PowerSDR. 6. Quality software development is VERY expensive. 7. No amateur radio manufacturer promises to provide continuous free software updates to their radios forever. I am not aware of any competitor that has ever provided significant improvements after they ceased manufacturing. FlexRadio never promised to do that either. However we did that at our expense for about 11 years on PowerSDR. 8. Other companies use the free open source PowerSDR software we developed to compete against us without their company having any internal software engineering expense. 9. As stated multiple times on the community, we are providing direct engineering support to Darrin in his work on PowerSDR. 10. SmartSDR is a long term architecture with an open API and over 100 developers signed up doing cool things. It is completely based on the Internet protocol, which is likely to outlive everyone reading this post. When we start charging for software at an appropriate time in the future, we will be incentivized to develop things customers are willing to pay for. The fact that SmartSDR is not open source incentivizes us to continue development since we don't give it to our competitors for free. The bottom line: Free open source ham radio software development in perpetuity is a "Going out of Business model." Those are the facts reiterated here once again for the public record. 73, Gerald

Bill -VA3WTB

Thanks Gerald,,everything I have tried to say, I just didn't have it at my fingertips. you cleared everything up as you always do....

Dan -- KC4GO

@Gerald
Thanks, I don't own a pre 6000 radio but I knew all that you stated above.
@All
This has nothing to do with new software for pre 6000 flex radios and all to do with Flex bashing. When given an honest option the negative side goes to   "Don't confuse me with facts my mind is made up" I vote Tim close this subject as old news for the 5000 that started it 3 years old.

Bill -VA3WTB

I agree Dan, I was just hoping I was wrong. His argument is just non issue.

Gerald-K5SDR

Guy, SmartSDR has an open API with more developers actively working with it than all combined in the history of PowerSDR. Two 6700R model radios will launch on a SpaceX rocket in July to be loaded onto the International Space Station using software developed by a system integration using only our API interfaces including the Waveform API. Another SI built an ionospheric sounder that operates on just millawatts using a FLEX-6500. They did everything with little support from us. There are already multiple ham GUI clients and utility apps on the market and more coming. There are also multiple loggers that support the API and more coming. None of this was even possible on the open source PowerSDR platform. PowerSDR is a "**** client" that evolved like spaghetti code over many years without an overarching design. SmartSDR was designed from the start with a long term architectural vision. With SmartSDR the radio IS a server with a 100% open control and waveform API in human readable format. This is unique in all of ham radio. You see only the tip of the iceberg. In practical terms SmartSDR is more open than PowerSDR ever was because the programming interface is well defined within the hierarchy of the architecture.

Joe WD5Y

That is awesome information!!! Sometimes we miss the forest because of the trees. Truly the flex 6000 series is in it's infancy with a lot of room to grow! Thanks, Joe WD5Y

Ken - NM9P

Thanks, Gerald. 
As I have seen Darrin's excellent work continuing on PSDR and the support FRS has given to him, it ALMOST makes me wish I hadn't sold my 1500! 
But I am really enjoying my 6500 instead!  And I am looking forward to the many new things to come!

Keep up the good work! 

Ken - NM9P

VE6KWA

<<< I am even ready to pay for new stuff.. it is not a mather of cash. >>>

So...belly up to the bar and pay for it then. Flex has new and refurbed 6k radios ready to ship, as we speak.   And... you will be very impressed with the predicted  update life cycle.  that's pretty much the crux of it all....

Tim - W4TME

I'd like to augment Gerald's comments with one very important bullet point that was inadvertently omitted.  I'll add it below for clarity and emphasis.

FlexRadio Systems has NOT stopped the development of PowerSDR. 

Granted it has been a while since the last release, as I type this we have in development PowerSDR v2.8.0 that is slated for released later this year.  Even though we stated publically 2 years ago that new feature development in PowerSDR would be curtailed, we did not stop adding to existing functionality and addressing certain defects.  Specifically for PowerSDR v1.8, we have continued to make code modifications to support the changing landscape of EU band allocations and some other bug fixes.  Since the last PowerSDR release have not felt that there were any defect corrections that warranted an earlier release schedule.

In addition, we fully intend to work with Darrin to integrate the PowerSDR v2.8 changes into his code branch.

When we do decide to stop all software development on PowerSDR, a formal software end of life (EOL) announcement from FlexRadio Systems will be made.  However, please do not confuse or incorrectly associate software EOL with termination of hardware and technical support for the radio hardware and using the last FlexRadio release of PowerDSR.  That will continue for the foreseeable future.  Regarding hardware and service support, the current FLEX Trade-IN! program has allowed us to collect and harvest many FLEX-5000s, FLEX-3000s and SDR-1000s that is increasing our parts and board inventory, significantly extending the serviceable life of FLEX SDRs.

DrTeeth

Gerald,

Thanks for that post which puts in one place for what the future holds for the SSDR system. Maybe Flex should consider hosting these client and utility apps? Having them in one place would let people see what was available as users and stimulates sales. Development would also be stimulated.
In the flight sim world, it was not possible for MSoft to host the third party aircraft and scenery as there was so much of it. One person would produce many aircraft and similarly scenery developers were also proliferative.


Pierre Martel

yup and trow the money I already given.. Think you are missing the point Ken.

Burt Fisher

n9skm and Bill instead of saying my "comments are completely unfounded, This is a complete assumption by you", tell me the facts instead of general roundhouse insults. In other words do what you say I am not doing, source your comments.

VE6KWA

I completely hear your point Pierre, I just don't understand what you would like Flex to do to make you happy... while still maintaining a viable business model ? I think the writing relevant to this is, and has been, on the wall for awhile. Further...I'm not sure where you are located, but if the price is reasonable, I would consider buying your legacy radio from you, if indeed you would like to sell it & move up.  Like Ken (NM9P)  and others, I'm kinda sorry I sold my F3K now that Darren is updating PSDR regularly. I really like PSDR !  IMO having both Legacy & 6K radios would be the ultimate. Or maybe I should finish building the SDR 1000 that is in the drawer... 

John

Should that not be V 2.8  and not 1.8 Tim ?