ZS-1 new SDR with pre distortion

Ed baker

Please read : This is not a comparison Zeus S-1 Has Pre distortion Programmed with this process along with a complete functional radio I am showing that it Has Pre distortion not using this description to explain or compare As I have said more and More SDR radios will provide this Pre distortion . "SSB-Electronic GmbH description Predistortion Setup The Settings window for the predistortion of the transmission signal opens on pressing "Predistortion Setup" in the External Control window.Note: Since the main purpose of these algorithms is distortion compensation arising in external power amplifiers, while the compensation of the internal amplifier of the ZS-1 "

Richard McClelland, AA5S

Just a wild guess on my part but I think that Flex will address the pre-distortion issue when they release their new amplifier.

Barry N1EU

Not sure what the amplifier would have to do with it?

Richard McClelland, AA5S

I've read elsewhere that this new amplifier will have a hardware port for pre-distortion feedback.  I'm inferring from this that it would be logical to concurrently release the amplifier and the pre-distortion functionality.  I'm just speculating this morning, it may have nothing to do with the amplifier.

Barry N1EU

Good to hear that the amplifier will have an attenuated output available.  I think we'll see more and more amplifier manufacturers designing that in.

Ed baker

I'm for anything that Flex does which enables pure signal . or adaptive pre distortion . THIS POST is nothing more than letting us all know that as the time goes on more and more SDR products have implemented pure signal . I look at it like a SSB mode enhancement USB LSB with or without . If you desire to have less IMD, Cleaner ETC . than anyone presently has turn it on if not leave it off . at least exercise that option until something better comes along .

KY6LA_Howard

https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/official-position-on-adaptive-predistortion

Official Position on Adaptive Predistortion

Periodically the topic of Adaptive Predistortion comes up for discussion on this community.  Our team has been consistent in our position on this subject but sometimes it is useful to restate what has been said many times before in the interest of clarity.  Here is a restatement of the facts:

1. The FLEX-6000 Series hardware has the necessary connections and internal RF port to port isolation to support adaptive predistortion software.  We have verified that transmitter output to receiver input isolation (e.g. ANT1 to RXA) is >80 dB on all bands including 6m, which is more than ample to accommodate adaptive predistortion using an external amplifier in the loop.

2. FlexRadio remains interested in adaptive predistortion technology but we have not in the past nor will we now make a time frame commitment.  Our internal engineering resources are 100% allocated to complete our published road map for v1.x releases through v2.0.  We believe that the features committed in those releases are currently of higher priority to the vast majority of our customers than is adaptive predistortion.  

3. We periodically review and rank our software backlog and feature requests.  We look at the ranked priorities and compare the development magnitude for each feature to the available engineering resources within a release cycle.  Based on those factors, we make decisions on what features make the cut in the release planning process.  So far adaptive predistortion has not made the cut.  That doesn't mean it won’t make the cut in a future release.

73 and thanks for your support,
Gerald

Jay -- N0FB

Adaptive Pre-Distortion technology is great, however until the Amateur Radio industry as a whole embraces this technology AND legacy radios are taken off the air, should Flex to add it to their list of features, it won't matter a hill of beans. No meaningful change to the quantity of extrodinarilly wide signals on the Amatuer bands. In my opinion, Flex Radio has bigger fish to fry.... Smart SDR 1.5, 2.0. There is time to add this technology to the lineup in the next 3-5 years.

KY6LA_Howard

I agree 100% ... Nice to have feature but total waste of development time and energy UNTIL ALL LEGACY RADIO's are off the Air..

Richard McClelland, AA5S

Maybe I should raise the banner for ADP on my Flex 1500?  <grin>

Ed baker

Actually Flex has been at this for about 8 years It's very possible that they already have it and are waiting to sell it to us as that 200 dollar option Bigger fish ,Waste of time , All viable excuses For those of us who don't have all that spare time thank you for your thoughts.

Richard McClelland, AA5S

It sounds to me as though the state of the art is moving along, maybe not as quickly as you might wish for.  I haven't heard any ADP announcements from Yaesu, Kenwood, Icom, Ten-Tec or Elecraft either.  I don't see a need to call out Flex on this particular point when they've made it clear that they are moving in that direction.

Ed baker

Richard SDR Radios please !!!

These are basically your computer with a rf deck . AND as our computers have changed so will these amazing SDR radios .

Even those who you mentioned will,for sure , be in the fray . IF not for techno advancement but for cost of manufacturing driven by PROFIT MARGINS

Did you ever look inside a SDR and any legacy radio . Pretty cool stuff. And they had this idea for the past 8 years . Cutting edge then now as more and more adapt the norm. Flex Seems to use the vote for it method of determining whats happening out there So in just that light if you don't keep asking WELL . But This was just a post of another SDR out there using Pure signal Not a complaint just FYI

Ed baker

Thank You for the reprint Maybe its already there and flex is waiting to sell it to us????? You know 2.0 Wouldn't that be great .

Richard McClelland, AA5S

I've seen references that the Elecraft gear is SDR (and I've seen Howard refuting this.)

Jay -- N0FB

Well, I vote not to waste their time on this feature at this point.  Full WAN capability before anything else.
Having Adaptive Pre-Distortion at this time will not, on its own, sell one single new unit.   Full WAN capability will sell thousands.  

Steve K9ZW

Ed

Understand your preoccupation with APD, but the weekly rehash of the latest APD news isn't really a FRS Community topic. 

Sorry, but until such time that FRS announced impending or actual APD is announced for the Flex-6x00 and SmartSDR we certainly can consider APD adequately explained and publicized.

What Zeus or Anan or whoever is doing is easy enough to catch from the other reflectors and ham websites, and doesn't need to be a distraction here, repeatedly.

To imply that FRS has APD ready but is withholding it purposely for revenue production is without foundation and not quite up to the standards hopefully the community continues to hold itself to.  From face-to-face and customer dealing I have had over many years now with FRS it feel that you do they a grave disservice in implying they would do this - even though if they did it would be 100% within their rights to do so, as APD has never been on the roadmap - ever.

Now if you were doing the development of an APD add-in hardware/software package for SmartSDR & the Flex-6x00 series we all sure would appreciate being kept up to date.

73

Steve

K9ZW

KY6LA_Howard

The KX3 is a first Generation SDR The K3 is Legacy Technology being misrepresented as a SDR in order to confuse the uniformed in thinking they are buying a Modern Radio

Ed baker

Actually ADP sold more than a few because Flex didn't have it already Numbers unknown But i think that thousands on WAN could also be a stretch . AND if we all used CW or DIGI PSK or the like there would also be no need for a cleaner band. I seem to remember when PSK hit the streets there were about 5 of us playing with it . NOW Lets see I have worked DXCC about 4 times just using that mode . So I really don't say no way WAN Or no way digi I treat this like a clean mode SSB .

Richard McClelland, AA5S

Thank you for the clarification, Howard.  If any SDR that isn't presently implementing ADP is deficient, then isn't the KX3 deficient by this standard as well?  Flex isn't the only SDR vendor that hasn't implemented ADP.  Should we even apply this standard to SDR vendors because, as I understand it, the vendors most need of cleaning up their signals haven't marketed any SDR products at all.

Ed baker

Well since you also have no idea (ONLY FLEX ) we are allowed conjecture . And if I am correct that 200 dollar upgrade is going to be loaded with just that . Things we all want . AND There is nothing wrong with developement with your money . AND if they already have it then there is "NO taking away developement time " Just smart business .

Martin AA6E

FRS doesn't have a strong commercial incentive to offer this feature, unless they are losing significant sales to vendors that have it.  On the other hand, there is a "moral" component.  Any vendor that offers APD gets leadership points from the community, regardless of the sales impact. 

I think the rationale offered by FRS is very plausible -- they have plenty of work to do to provide the features that are already announced in the pipeline.  And I suppose they're selling about as many radios as they can make.

George KF2T

Good grief, people. Do we really need this drama every week, now?

Tim - W4TME

I have had a request to close this thread since Howard has provided the official FlexRadio answer related to APD.