No Computer Required

KY6LA_Howard

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KY6LA_Howard

The Maestro is a DEDICATED WINDOWS COMPUTER running SSDR under embedded Windows In the first instance it is intended to replace the client computer running SSDR under windows and add knobs In a future instance it is planned to run in parallel as a second client on SSDR The QST diagram is not totally accurate as the remote audio is not DAX

Bob - W7KWS -

Howard,

Your input is appreciated.  Can you direct me to a correct block diagram I could study?  I'd like to get beyond the "he said, she said" information I currently have as some of it, although from seemingly credible sources, is in conflict.

The reason that I'm trying to pin this down follows: 

I run SSDR under Windows on three different tablets with varying degrees of success. Two are very sluggish & one is OK but runs at the margin.  All three use different Bay Trail processors. The two poor performers use a Z3735 & a Z3740 CPU.  The one that runs OK but at the margin is a Z3775.  Of course, I have ended as many unneeded Windows services as I've been able to identify.

At Dayton, a Flex engineer told me that Maestro will run a Bay Trail CPU. When I expressed my experience running SSDR under Windows with Bay Trail, he suggested that I not worry since Maestro would run Linux.

Of course I agree that Maestro is a computer just as I believe the microprocessor  coupled with memory & I/O in an Icom control panel is a computer, just not a PC.

Thanks for any additional documentation you might suggest I look at.

73

Bob - W7KWS -

Walt,

Thanks for last,  It is a good basis for discussion of interesting Flex items.

By the way, I run an IC-706 control head in my pickup which operates its companion radio at home remotely over TCP/IP.  Both the radio and control panel are hooked to translation processors which convert the 56-kb/Sec. duplex control data and encode/decode the analog audio for transmission over TCP/IP.  At home the data is received/transmitted via Ethernet to/from the system where the asynchronous 56-kbp/Sec. control data is restored/encoded and the audio is decoded/encoded for the radio.

I could use a more modern radio than the 706 but the control panel fits my dashboard better than any of the others.

I have my Arduino Ethernet LC-068 board with plans to interface these control functions to the Flex via Ethernet but I just haven't been able to bring myself to go back to work.  I retired from cellular & Telephony engineering in 1998.

73

Walt - KZ1F

Bob, NP. Just so you'll know. I try very hard not to say **** sh?t. I have been working with all types of computers and software for about a half century. The Webster definition is hideously incomplete. You could look at Oxford's def with is much more complete or, ironically, wikipedia which is quite good. At any rate, I decided to look up the Icom 7100 as,in my mind's eye I envisioned the decade's old remote head found on many 2 mtr mobile rigs. I thought, rather than talk about something I wasn't familiar with I'd do some research. To be sure, the 7100 is internet accessible or it appears to be. Icom does not do the software running the radio, that would be rfsystemsinc.com. The cable from the head to the radio is not a standard internet cat-x cable. This sort of implies to me that there is not a client / server internet connection between the two. For instance, the FRS 1500 has what looks to be an  RJ-45 cable to the mic but that doesn't make the mic a computer. On the back of the 7100 there is an RJ-45 to connect the radio to the outside internet world and another similarly looking female connector (RJ45-like) to connect the control head to. So one can conclude from that the control head is not a stand-in for an internet connection and if the radio can be controlled from the internet, but that isn't how the head connects, then the head isn't where the software is running.

Definition of computer: Just because something is software controlled, that doesn't make it a computer. The Alpha 9500 is software controlled, 5 separate microprocessors to govern 5 separate functional areas of the linear. In the 6000 there are two software pieces running, one is Linux to control the SDR itself, the other is Windows to control input and output to the software running the SDR, like freq, band, volume, mode, meters, output, swr, compression et al. Here is what wiki says,
"A computer is a general-purpose device that can be programmed to carry out a set of arithmetic or logical operations automatically. Since a sequence of operations can be readily changed, the computer can solve more than one kind of problem."

Clearly, by virtue of the fact this thread has gone on as long as it has, we are talking about a fine distinction lost on most people. While I am sure there are some people on here who had or are spending a career in Information Technology or Software development (the two are not identical) the vast majority haven't. So when you said 'this is (or isn't) a computer', um, no, which at best is differentiating something software controlled and a computer, at worst, comparing apples with oranges.

I have a flexlib equivalent that will run on Linux, Windows, Mac, Raspberry Pi, etc. I am well into a SSDR equivalent that, IMHO, will provide better functionality and also run on Linux, Windows, Mac, Raspberry Pi etc. SSDR can not talk to my XPFlexLib as SSDR is married to the Windows OS version of FlexLib. So for Maestro to be anything other than Windows running SSDR, or a variant,for a variety of reasons, that doesn't make sense, when a Windows, SSDR solution is the fastest and least expensive path to providing the Maestro functionality as that technology not only already exists, it has been in the field of over a year now.  So, as I said in the post, I think I deleted, yes, there could be a hardware/firmware control head that was simply a dedicated control head, what Maestro appears to be reusing all the previously developed FRS technology and adds knobs and dials. 

Having said all that I am pretty much talked out. Again, for the vast majority of readers, the distinction we are discussing would be lost on them. Computer controlled implies software controlled, software controlled does NOT imply computer controlled. The two are not transitive.

Bob - W7KWS -

Walt,

The 7100 & 706 have the same control panel to radio interface. Only the cable is different & of course it is not Ethernet.  See my above post & I'll be more detailed later.  My kids just showed up for the day.

KY6LA_Howard

I am currently on a post Friedrichshafen Dxpedtion to OK1 Contest stations helping set up 6700. I have limited access to docs until I get back to the USA in July. I have already stated the known facts about Maestro above. There is no conflicting information. It is not a dumb box with dedicated hardware/firmware such as the various favors of Icom control head but a dedicated computer running embedded windows and SSDR. Frankly Flex is still designing and debugging the product so some things will change. it would be premature for you to be asking your questions until everything is finalized by Flex and they publish Official Documentation If you need more information I suggest that you study FlexLib so you can get a better idea as to what SSDR does.

Bob - W7KWS -

Howard,

The only information conflict is what you &  Walt have stated in no uncertain terms, without backup,  versus what I was told by a Flex Maestro designer.  Who has is right? Either you are or the Flex guy has it right.  As you suggest, it could change.  It appears that there is no way for me to know right now.

Maybe I won't know anything until I get my Maestro. I'm kind of sorry I asked the question as I'm used to getting information with some references or sources, not just statements presented as fact.  I'm sorry I can't be more definitive as to my source.  I can't remember his name.  Maybe that will  come back to me.  If it does I will let you know.

When you get back & have your docs at hand, I would appreciate hearing what you have.  Until then, best regards.

Walt - KZ1F

I suspect what happened, as I wasn't in the conversation, the flex guy was talking about SDR (in the radio) and you were talking about SSDR (in the control surface). Or the flex guy thought you were talking about the radio itself.

Bob - W7KWS -

Walt,

That's certainly a possibility.

KY6LA_Howard

Walt is correct. The 6000 is a Linux box. The Flex client SSDR is windows. Maestro runs the Flex client I'munfderembedded windows. There is no point in wasting anymore time on this discussion until,Flex finishes Maestro and releases Docuemnaion. My source is Steve Hicks

Bob - W7KWS -

Walt,

The only thing that I have to add is that my project for controlling a Flex with another brand control head envisions a CAT interface over Ethernet. Audio will be handled separately via SIP using the audio interfaces on the Flex. I have no interest in reinventing the wheel as you have done.  All I want it to do is work reliably and fit in my truck while it controls my 6300 at home instead of an IC- 706.

N4PY does a similar thing with Pegasus using a TMate2 to control the Flex 6000 radios. The real difference between his project and what I want is that his translations to Flex cat are done on a Windows PC and I'm looking to do it more simply on a single board computer. I'm prepared to also run the Maestro in parallel at home to keep radio alive unless I can figure a way around it.

The photo is of my current remote mobile. It works very well over Verizon 3G or 4G.  The dual bander below is using a local radio in the truck.

Tim - W4TME

I confirm this answer is correct.

Dennis Terry W4SG

I see all of the discussion about running a Flex 6x00 without a computer and using the Elecraft KAT500 & KPA500 cabled properly will work just fine without DDUtil and another computer.  My question is what does Flex Radio have in mind for powering up the Flex 6300 in my case?  I saw all of the discussion about the WOL (Wake-On-Lan) protocol in another thread and came away thinking that it was not implemented in the 6000 series. I guess a separate computer, however small (Beaglebone, Arduino, Raspberry PI) might be required "to light the fires".  Also, any ideas about rotor control in the remote environment?

73, W4SG Dennis