release of source for flex 3000 driver?

Pierre Martel

Since Flex no longeur sell the flex 3000 would it be possible to release the driver source? It would be nice since it could be possible to upgrade the software to the open powersdr platform.

I dont mind that Flex dont sell it anymore but please dont leave us in the dark. this hardware is marvelous and I want to keep it. 

If I have to change sdr, I am not sure I would choose Flex radio if they dont release such information soon. I hate to be stuck in such position after just 18 month of owning my radio. 

Bill -VA3WTB

Are you not happy with PSDR? I still don't get how we are stuck. As long as we have an OS that runs PSDR it should be good for many more years.

Walt - KZ1F

Ya know. Windows XP continues to work every bit as well as it did the day Microsoft ceased supporting it. That didn't mean they were giving the source code for it away. The 3000 and 5000 don't work any worse than they did the day before FRS made that announcement. I believe FRS said they would support it as far as any Microsoft induced failures were responsible.  My TS-530SP works the same as it did in the eighties. I don't happen to use it any more, but I could if I wanted to.

A day will come when FRS no longer supports the 6000 series, for any number of reasons. That doesn't mean they should surrender their intellectual property for it. Nor does it mean it will degrade over time, well, beyond being hardware and hardware fails. If you sold it, because it was out of production, and bought a 6000 I suspect FRS would be thrilled.

Pierre Martel

and the old computer that cant run windows 7 are still being updated by something called linux, and people still use them with all the security update available right now..

but the situation is not like an OS, SDR are able to use new software that are designed every day. But PowerSDR wont be updated to those new fonction or filters or what ever. 

BUT open powerSDR is still worked on.. They wont give the key to there bank doing so, they will let user of there product be able to have new option/fonction designed by other.. 

they loose nothing. and that type of info is not used on any of there new lines.. And giving back to the open community is not so bad, since the did used it for a long time.. 

I hope someone from FRS will answer something to this question.. 

Pierre Martel

If I would not be happy, I would not ask the question.. BUT I would like to have the possibility to have update if I could use open powersdr.. And that is the question..

Pierre Martel

And by the way my flex 3000 run right now on windows 10.. It is not a problem of OS it is just a problem of lack of new stuff in the futur.

Walt - KZ1F

Linux and a for profit company are not the same thing. But, so long as you mentioned Linux, your statement is not completely true. RedHat, Canonical, others only support versions of their Linux to a point, be it 1 year, 4 years or 7 years. For the 7 years, that is RH and you pay for the subscription. Beyond that point, they are no longer supported either. You have to upgrade to a supported release to get continued support.

I would be shocked if FRS said yes.

Pierre Martel

why shocked? would you loose something in that process? they would not loose anything eigher, but they would also gain the possibility of new code to use on there product as the open power sdr are providing all the source of there software.. BTW linux paid support is for the software, not the hardware. And you can install community based distro like centos ( RH) with all the same fonction then the one that pay for it.. you wont have direct support, but you still have it, no mather the hardware you have. And FRS would not have to support anything.. really there is no lost for them as they wont even use that code anymore on new product.

Pierre Martel

and one other thing, new buyer of SDR radio would see that FRS dont leave there client with no update , on older equipment. So this would make them more confident that if something domhappen they would still have some worth buying. other company do provide source to the community..

KY6LA_Howard

Correct me if I am wrong But as far as I know, Icom, Yaesu, Kenwood, Elecraft Expert Amps, ACom, Alpha Amps, hilberling do not provide source. So which Major companies are you referencing that provide source?

Walt - KZ1F

Pierre, it is FRS intellectual property (IP). One doesn't give away their IP.

Jay Nation

The closed source driver you want the source code for, might not actually be source code owned by Flexradio. Flexradio has to abide by the licensing terms of that closed source driver. It might be better to ask who owns copyright on that driver sourcecode, so that you can ask them about open sourcing their property. The last time I checked the copyright on the firewire driver was held by TC Applied Technologies. Who manufacture the DICE chipset used for the 3000s and 5000s.

73, Jay - NO5J  

Tim - W4TME

The source code for the drivers was licensed to FlexRadio Systems.  We do not own it therefore releasing it is not an option.

Pierre Martel

Thanks Tim, now I know where to turn to, but can I ask a question, what would the Open Power Sdr need to be able to connect with a Flex 3000? If not the driver?

Pierre Martel

tell that to tesla, they did released a large chuck of there IP lately... So yes some one can give away what they own. It does not seem to be the case right now, but if it was IP of FRS, yest they could give it.

Pierre Martel

did I named any of those corporation? but apache labs do release code for the community to work on... and there stuff is not bad, not that I say that flex is bad, but one might see this kind of action as a good thing, I do see it that way.

Bill -VA3WTB

Interesting, I notice all the Anan guys saying, ( It's a good thing )
This has been answered. Flex can't help you out on this one. Apache Labs has no software for their radio, they use PSDR and HDSDR, both are being writen by members of the community as open source.

Pierre Martel

PowerSdr is opensource, at least a good part of it. and you know what? that is what my radio need to work! if there would be a way to have communication to my flex with the "other" version of psdr, all would be nice.. too bad it aint so..

Bill -VA3WTB

I have used PSDR for 7 years. It is stable and does everything needed. There would be very little advantage going to HDSDR.

Peter K1PGV

If you're really that concerned about it, and you know how to write device drivers (which you must know, because you're asking for the source to one, and if you didn't already know how to write Windows drivers the source would be no good to you)...  you could always write your OWN 1394 driver for the Flex-3000.

Assuming the open source version of PSDR has the calls to ReadFile and/or DeviceIoControl in it that it uses to configure and get data from the radio, you basically have the functional specification for the interface.  And you can verify what you're reading with a 1394 bus analyzer.

Set a few registers, field a few interrupts, call WdfRequestComplete... how hard can it be? ;-o

Peter
K1PGV

Pierre Martel

I am not a programer, my coding dyas are over.. With fortran cobol basic and pascal as the language I used to work with, forget about doing such thing...

BUT there are people that can do it.. 

One thing I see here is that lots of flex user are very over protective of the company. 

I am not bashing agaisnt FRS, I just want to have option in the future.. By dropping the manufacturing and stopping work on psdr, I fell like I am dumped.. Not very fun feeling..

I want to use that Radio with as much possibility for the longest time possible.. 

Like I am still using my FT-101ZD.

Pierre Martel

For now... 

think a bit further ahead.. 

You dont know what a computer could do in the next 5 years.

what if we could run open psdr on a device similar to a raspberry PI and have the display sent to a tablet or just a plain tablet with firewire adaptor could run a software for the 3000.  This could be fun. this would put the 3000 as a good radio for a RV. 

Think ahead. there could be a software that could take a very noisy signal and turn it into smooth audio.. But psdr could not have it..  that would be bad, no?

Bill -VA3WTB

I think they have been hitting the wall on that. PSDR takes a fare amount of horse power to run the Flex 3000. Even with all the work that has been done on HDSDR that the Anan users are using. I heard a bunch of them this week talking about how they have upgraded their computers to much faster machines to run the software.

I think only a new software for the flex 3000 would have to be invented. And the fact that the 1500, 3000, and 5000 does little if any processing in the radio and it is all in the software, it would never be thin client.

Pierre Martel

For now, 2 year ago when they released the RPIa every one said: we cont do much with that.

Now the RPI2 can run windows 10 for arm processor..  You cant tell me what will run on computer in 5 year.. And my flex will still be a good radio.. 

That is why i would like to have a way of still upgrading my flex, I could be nothing more then a new fancy meter display..  but still it would be something.. (I know we can do it right now) that was just an exemple.  

Bill -VA3WTB

You are hard to follow. Tell us what you would like to do with the radio in the future and what the software needs to be able to do. The Flex 3000 will always need a good computer to run it.

Walt - KZ1F

You are trying to relitigate a decision previously made, let it go.

Peter K1PGV

"To every thing there is a season..."

You're right.  Nobody can tell you what the NEXT generation of hardware will bring.  However, we can tell you that the cost in terms of time and effort for making a piece of hardware that is two generations older work with it will be excessive.

Start with the interface method: My views about 1394 are pretty well known, but looking impartially at the problem, it is extremely unlikely that you'll be able to interface a 1394 audio device with any small computer in the future. Today, there are no 1394 control boards for the Raspberry Pi to the best of my knowledge.

Then there's the matter of the software technology:  Windows Forms (which is what SSDR uses) is fun and easy... but it's already TWO generations old now.  You can't run Windows forms on a Windows 10 system on Raspberry Pi today... and if it's not supported today, there's less than zero percent chance that Microsoft will support it in the future (because it's an old technology, not a new one, and there are fewer and fewer apps written using it).

In the end, you see: Running a 3000 or 5000 isn't like firing-up your old Drake for the sake of nostalgia.  There's infrastructure required.  And we're still evolving computer oriented infrastructure at a rapid rate.

So, enjoy the 3000 today with the capabilities it has today... keep whatever Windows system you have today for running the 3000... and enjoy the capabilities. Buy a 6500 today.  Wait another generation and buy a 7700 tomorrow.  They'll all be obsolete someday.

But Time Marches On!

Peter

K1PGV

Pierre Martel

Nope, I am just trying to keep my beloved 3000 for a long time ;-)

Bill -VA3WTB

I see nothing to worry about Pierre, I believe Flex has stated, that they will make changes to PSDR as needed to work with up coming Windows versions. so If it stops working on Win 10 or up they will fix it.
They will not leave customers stranded.

Kuby, N6JSX

So the bottom line is PwrSDR is truly a dead program as FLEX will not give any date or intentions as to when they MAY release an improved PwrSDR being solely focused on Smart/6K's (and likely the secret 7K's).               

The PwrSDR SSB DSP/ANF 'failure' will be forever (I'm still using my IC-746Pro as the DPS/ANF works).

Bill -VA3WTB

My ANF on my Flex 3000 works very well, took some time to fine tune the settings, but it works almost perfect.