Interesting Intruder on 15 Meters

Ken - NM9P

I have an interesting intruder on the low end of the 15 meter phone band.
Here are two screen shots.  One is with Weighted averaging ON the other is with weighted averaging OFF.  Certainly this is a very rapidly pulsing source!
My guess is that it is Over the Horizon Radar of some sort, but it is wiping out a full 20 KHz of 15 meter phone.

Steve N4LQ

We get to see all these weird signals which the "knobers" miss. 

Walt - KZ1F

I am sure a P3 would pick it up. I think you can add a panadapter to Kenwoods, not sure but I did see hits on ts-590 panadapter.

Interesting thing: Sociologically or, perhaps, Anthropologically, people formed tribes for mutual defense, social bonding, shared tasks hunting, gathering. This is the basis of why we see issues in the middle east, in our own race issues, tribes are extremely sceptical of other tribes and other tribe members. Again, Middle East and our own racial issues.

What I find intellectually fascinating is the tribal mentality exhibited in this hobby.  Except there is no mutual defense, group hunting parties and agricultural parties.

I refer you all to Gerry Hull's most excellent post in https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/dayton-2015-report-unofficial, particularly the last paragraph.

The issue, as I see it, isn't whether it happens here, it clearly does. The issue, as I see it, is are people sufficiently insecure in their purchasing decision they have to resort to bashing their other  choices they could have made in order to bolster the decision they did make. I don't pretend to know the answer. I do, heartily agree with Gerry's contention,

"It presumes the rest of the Amateur Community, including vendors, are all "idiots" because they don't use a pure SDR strategy".

On another note: Have other people noticed the human  intruders on the low end of the 10m CW band, truckers and people likely in SA?

John n0snx

HUH ???? Who??? when??? where????  And what ???? does all this have to do with with Kens post...   GEEEZ

Greg Leber

I bet you're sorry you asked after all that BS!

Bill -VA3WTB

While it is true many other radios can add panadapters most don't use them, The Flex just has one by default is all Steve was saying, Good point Steve.

KY6LA_Howard

@walt

R U trying to get into the Curmudgeon of the Year contest.? Hi hi.

Ken - NM9P

I assume Walt was reminding us not to become too irrationally exuberant to the point of arrogance about our rigs.  (;0)  Yes, while other rigs have useful panadapters, I haven't seen anything that compares with the clarity, bandwidth, and utility of the 6000 series.  Couple that with the way the Panafall stores data and pans with the screen, and I find it truly to be superior to the others I have seen.  And indeed it keeps getting better with updates.  Everyone chill...I have no beef with Walt.  or anyone else on the board.  I don't mind the playful banter and always hope that it never gets personal.  We're all big boys and girls.  Let's talk radio.

My OP was twofold..
1) to note the presence of the intruder.
2) to note the vast difference in appearance on the pan with the Weighted Averaging turned ON & OFF.  the signal must contain extremely sharp rising peaks in order to have such a difference.  I have never seen it this drastic before, perhaps I just haven't played that much with the settings that much on this type of signal.  I usually keep the Weighted Average turned ON.

Thoughts?

Walt - KZ1F

@Bill, that was not what Steve said. Actually I prefer Howard's use of legacy then a sneering, 'down the nose' denigrating characterization  But that is what this board is or has turned into. I disagree with Howard's assessment but at least it isn't obviously chest thumping. I would consider legacy to be first generation solid state, as opposed to the TS-530s / TS-830s although they are legacy as well. The thing about K3 series is as far as independent judges go, it is in the same league. Serious contesters use them, DXPeditions use them. I wouldn't refer to them as legacy. Again, referring to Gerry's stmt in his last paragraph, calling the users of non Flex radios 'knobbers" isn't knocking the product, it's insulting the owners. So when I read that the first thing that came to mind was sociological / anthropological tribal mentality. 

I think Gerry nailed it in that quoted sentence. Personally I am getting really tired of the tenor of this board. This is likely why Elecraft and KYI don't have "IHeart<fill in the blank> community boards. They leave that to the Yahoo and eHam sites.

There are people here who have legit issues, people here who are trying to accomplish something and, it seems, the rest are just engaged in mental twiddling of their respective prostates.

@Howard, if that makes me a contestant..bring it.   GEEZE!!!!

Thank you Ken, I have no beef with you, or your comment either. We were clearly typing at the same time. I, still, do not recall, people 2,000 miles away doing AM on the low end of 10 CW.

Steve N4LQ

Walt. I had proton radiation treatment. There is not much left of my prostate. 

Other than that, I have no idea what you're talking about.

Walt - KZ1F

I suspect Howard's annotation of the term 'legacy' is purely technical, the pre-100% SDR technology ala Flex and Anan. However, the connotation of 'legacy' is more derogatory in the sense of 'not as good', and that would be an unfair and untrue comparison.

Ken - NM9P

Walt,
RE: Intruders on the low end of 10 Meters...
Yes, I hear them all the time - taxicabs, 11 1/2 meter ops spilling over to 10 meters, unlicensed wannabe's, and others.  both AM and SSB.  In fact, there are so many that I can usually discover that ten is open by looking for the intruders more than looking for actual hams.  it is ridiculous.

A few months ago I traced a source of splatter interference all the way to 27.125 MHz.  The guy was twice as strong as anyone else on the band and was literally splattering all the way to about 28.300 MHz.  He was literally over 3 MHz wide!  I could watch him...ALL of him...on my 6500 panafall display.  Very few other rigs would be able to do that.  Without the visual displays I may never would have found him.  But alas, what to do with him after finding him?  He was probably 900 miles away.

re: suspected denigration via the term "knobbers" ... I can see how you may have taken it as denigration, but it could also have been simply a short hand way of referring to the limitations of non-SDR radios that lack pan and/or waterfall displays.  I chose to interpret it that way and not assume any negative connotation, merely a technical comparison.  Perhaps I am too generous, but I get into fewer fights that way.  <grin>


Ken - NM9P

Walt - KZ1F

It seems to me it is just worse now than 30 or so years ago.  How does one generate a 3 MHz wide signal? Was there intelligence there?

I wasn't singling anyone out. I was referring to the culture. It was just yesterday Gerry made that stmt....'nailed it'.  If I didn't get the 6500, I would have gotten a fully loaded K3...but I DID get the 6500. I chose the 6500 as I had no perceived use for the additional features of the 6700. As a quick aside, I would place money on the table that in the next 18 months there will be a 7000 series. Which means there will be a lot of used 6700's on the market. I still can't have multiple multi band antennas, and instant tune of a good LP trumps the others. So still no 6700 for me. That decision was not a constraint, it was a choice. Virtually the only thing I don't like about the 6000 is the UI. I am remedying that.

My perception is we all, in part, are responsible for the tenor of this board. I perceive there are a handful of, for lack of a better word right now, 'leaders' here, you (Ken), Howard, Stu, perhaps some others. In the spirit of what Gerry was saying, I think it would be really nice if the 'leaders' on this board would help better define the bounds. Not policing, per se, just leadership. And, frankly, I am not seeing that. Since I've been quoting Gerry, he did reference K3 owners engaged in the same "my dad can beat up your dad' rhetoric. I've never seen that though, haven't gone looking for it either.

I think the praise, aka, twiddling, section of this board was a huge mistake. I didn't set it up though.  The primary reason I started getting **** a day or two back is I had several problems I entered. Yes, I realized FRS was likely less staffed a day before to a day after Dayton but I also suspect they didn't close the office. But due to the complete BS rhetoric, my problems got pushed so far back page wise, even, I wouldn't expect anyone in support to see them which, apparently, they didn't. That triggered the resident troll to start haunting me for bringing them back to the front. 

I don't come here to pick fights. I also don't come here to be at a CJ or biker bar. FRS as made it clear this is the only vehicle available to seek assistance, be in installing, using, or programming. That is unfortunate, given the state of this board. So the meta-message is, can we please just clean this up.

km9r.mike

I have seen youtube videos from the hack rf folks where they submit either screen shots or files of  emitters and a web based database will define the transmission. Kinda slick but like most things on the interwebby there is no certification required for the trustworthiness of the database.

I too was recently playing with display settings and was wondering while doing so if settings that require more compute power can result in a loss of receive data no matter how small. Low data rate transmission probably not a concern but high data rate precise transmissions (ie psk 500, 1000 for lack of a better example) may be a concern. Just do not know enough about it yet but learning.

WRT the other stuff, I like the positives that all my radios offer. My flex 6300 however is w/ doubt hands down goto rig for all areas of operating. It is not chest thumping just reality.

Bill -VA3WTB

Walt may I make a suggestion? Just start filtering comments on the board. I think I am going to try doing that myself and see how it goes, Walt you question the mentality of some here and you don't like what is said at times, but instead of long talks about it, just pick and choose what you want to comment on. If it rubs you the wrong way, just let it slide, go on with what you were doing. If someone is being rude, causing trouble, not replying to them shuts them up, as soon as we reply then they have our attention, just what they want.

I know many times I have people calling me out on almost anything I say, they don't miss a beat, if what I say bothers some people they jump on me very fast. I find that more disturbing to be frank. There are a few just waiting to find fault with what ever I say. That's the time to filter.

I mentioned the other day how it has been for me operating during a contest and having a conversation and problems I have, boy did I ruffle some feathers there. I was just commenting how it is for me.

So we can make choices, when, were, and how we reply. I'm going to try this for myself,
Lets just go out and play!

Bill -VA3WTB

Ken, it is from outer space,oooooh

Dave Chavez

Yeah they have been on 40 meters as well.

Burt Fisher

The "tenor" of this board is hams helping hams. We are not all highly qualified, at least I am not, yet if one of my questions does not receive the response I desire I do not fell the need to be pushy about it. Flex has allowed the users many options for expression and they drop in from time to time. Flex does not show a strong desire to "control", thus they reveal themselves as self confident. Those that must "control" generally have feelings of inadequacy Generally I receive more help than I can handle.

Steve N4LQ

Amen