Paying extra for updates to multiple Flex radios.

Burt Fisher

Someone needs to explain to me how Flex can ever turn a profit selling to hams plus all the customer service.

Bill -VA3WTB

They have it worked out, I don't know how either. Software is very expensive to produce. I think they walk a fine line Burt.

Walt - KZ1F

Tim has actually answered that question, you can not start two instances of SSDR at the same time on the same computer.

Walt - KZ1F

This is one reason I've been talking about the 7000 series. If you do the math, even if every current owner antied up another $200....
I don't think it is appropriate for customers of a company to be publicly prognosticating over that company's business model, nor is it appropriate for the customers to expect that discussion,  but this board is, for the most part (I hope) populated by reasonably intelligent people. Certain undeniable conclusions can be drawn with very little effort.

$200 on a $5000 or $8000 product is chicken feed, it's a very small percentage. I am awed we're having this discussion at all.

Oxford English

Sorry Walt, but I think you are completely wrong when you say it is not right for customers to be 'publicly prognosticating' over FSR's business model. 

It seems to me that one of the things that FRS has very deliberately set out to do is encourage it's customers to feel part of the 'Flex Family'. To that end, we are discussing this in the Flexradio Community.

How can Flex or indeed any company or association ever know what it's customers feel about their products if the said customers don't tell them?

I find it somewhat ironic that you are telling us that we are wrong to discuss something when we are talking about a product that is designed specifically to allow us to discuss things!

Tim

VE6KWA

I have absolurely no problem with the $200 software fee. I expected this would eventually be the case back during PSDR development. On what may be an even more trivial issue, I don't understand the warranty transfer fee when purchasing a used radio. Yes... I know it's not a bunch of money. I just fail to see the reasoning behind the charge. We charged similar fees when I was in the car industry. We called them "gravy" (flame shield deployed)

DrTeeth

I shall not express my opinion of the warranty transfer fee as I do not wish to be banned from this friendly community.

I also have no problem what so ever with the $200 fee. I am not interested at all in remote working at the moment, so they had better have something else to tempt me :-). Don't tell them, but I like running the latest versions of software generally so will purchase to support FRS anyway.

Tim - W4TME

Ken - the warranty transfer fee is less than 1hr of service bench time, so if you have to send it in for service once, it saves you a little money on the bench time and the return shipping.  Use it twice, and you save even more.

KY6LA_Howard

Having run businesses that offered warranties, the last time I looked it cost me money to have someone record and keep track of warranties.  

Warranty Transfers may seem simple but unfortunately someone on my staff has to look up the existing warranty, confirm that it is still in good standing and then confirm that the new owner is actually a legitimate owner and is eligible to own the new warranty. 

You would be quite amazed to find the number of stolen items returned for warranty or misrepresented by third party sellers as being eligible for warranty transfer or having had third party sellers collect and pocket warranty transfer fees..

$75 Warranty Transfer Fee likely does not cover its true costs to the company that is generous enough to offer warranty transfers. 

DrTeeth

Why cannot the warranty simply go with the radio using the serial number and the original receipt? The warranty just has to be deemed transferable and FRS does not have to do anything. I have several items, where if sold, the warranty passes onto the new owner without the manufacturer getting involved at all. Simples!

KY6LA_Howard

Guy

I wish life were so simple... In real life things get

1. stolen.. just ask Apple about the number of stolen iPhones showing up for service
2.  Misrepresented by third party vendors...just look at the number of "New" or "Under warranty" items sold on E-Bay that are not...

Walt - KZ1F

@Tim "How can Flex or indeed any company or association ever know what it's customers feel about their products if the said customers don't tell them?"

Most companies don't require that level of affirmation. A company knows how it's product is doing in the market place by 1) click throughs, 2) net new sales, 3) surveys, not how many 'likes' on Facebook they've gotten this month.

A company's business model is not the same thing as 'like me on Facebook", it is whether they are solvent in 10 yrs. Those venture capitalists want to know how likely that is before millions of dollars change hands. They actually do get a vote and a seat on the board.

As someone earlier said, this whole topic sounds like a veiled "upgrades should be free for life".

Burt Fisher

@Tim Flex is unique in that it relishes feedback, thus a family atmosphere is promoted. Where else does a President of a company talk to the end user DIRECTLY?

Burt Fisher

I was on the side of dumping the transfer fee until I read why.

K6OZY

So very true.

KY6LA_Howard

You would not believe the number of illegitimate fraudulent and expired warranty transfers we had to eat in the name of customer relations..

Ultimately we got smart and killed any form of warranty transfer...even then people showed up with doctored and re-dated invoices demanding warranty service.

Steve-N5AC

It's been a long time since we instituted the warranty transfer fee, but my recollection is that as radios were sold, the new owner would promptly call up support and spend a couple of hours trying to understand the radio, how to hook it up, etc.  The transfer fee was largely defensive to help defray the cost of this phone support.  

Burt Fisher

I got out of the transfer fee, I bought my radio from the ARRL and then read the manual.

N7AIG

Don't volume discounts normally kick in at 10+ units?

VE6KWA

Interesting input from everyone on the warranty transfer fee ! I might have guessed it had come up before. Im no stranger to commerce so I understand where a lot of you that have been in business are coming from. I'll try not to belabor it but I have a few thoughts on comments made. Steve: your comment makes sense. I can see the potential extra work servicing the second Newbie purchaser. Tim: This is my 3rd Flex radio and your service has been sevond to none. As Burt stated... I don't know how you guys supply the kind of service you do and still stay afloat. I'm not questioning the warranty service or the value. I just question charging a fee to transfer the warranty on a radio that is 3 months old and has literally under 10 hours on it. Will it affect my 6000 ownership ? Absolutely not. This is the most fun I have ever had in amateur radio ! So a final question. I'm currently on the road and won't be home for awhile... is there a time frame in which I must register the warranty ? I don't want to have any issues later. Ken ve7kwa

G4YDO

how come icom, kenwood, yaesu are all free updates.

Jon_KF2E

There is really no comparison between updates for a legacy radio and an SDR. With an SDR software is the radio and as a result you can achieve completely new functionality with a software update. FreeDV is an example as is WAN remote.

Jon...kf2e

Burt Fisher

G4YDO go buy an icom, kenwood, yaesu

W9OY

I think partially at issue is the time frame on the update.  It is often quoted as $200 PER YEAR by people worrying about this.  I've owned my Flex well over a year and haven't spent a cent.  IT IS NOT PER YEAR

RE: Icom Kenwood Yaesu those radios are hardware legacy radios.  If you want better filters you have to spend $1000 to upgrade.  Same with Elecraft those jokers charge $30 for a friggin handbook on their radios, or $20 for a friggin cable with a stereo 2.5 to 3.5mm plugs on it.  You can go through 5 complete upgrade cycles for $1000.  For the legacy radio by the time 5 upgrade cycles occur the thing is residing in the dump

73  W9OY

Bill -VA3WTB

Because they are not SDR radios, they have a very simple software and firmware compared to SSDR. That was easy!! And what update have you had to pay for so far?

Tim - W4TME

Think of the Warranty Transfer as nothing more than a insurance policy to defer the cost of repair if needed.  It is nothing more than a risk / reward decision.  And there is no time frame on when you have to register.

Oxford English

G4YDO - You are missing the point.

Please get it into your mind that Flex Radios are actually RF computers and like all other computers they need an operating system.

Flex updates can, and often do, change the way the radio works and performs. For instance the early versions of SmartSDR did not have memories for the Auto ATU, now it does. Effectively Flex are able to change the way the hardware works with the software. It is very similar to a computer in that SmartSDR is an operating system just like Windows or Linux.

What Flex are doing is just like Microsoft, they are giving their users the enhancements to the current version of the software.

What Flex are saying is that when they offer a NEW version of the software, you will have the opportunity to buy it if you would like the features it offers. 

If you choose not to buy the new software, your radio will still work EXACTLY as it did.

What Kenwood, Icom and Yaesu are doing is giving you enhancements to the software embedded in the radio. For example Icom have just released new software for the IC7600, one of the enhancements is that you can now use a mouse to navigate the on screen menus. 

The Icom updated sofware is FREE.....and so is Flex's updated software!

Please get it into your mind that Flex Radios are actually RF computers and like all other computers they need an operating system.

DrTeeth

That infers a radio that transfers ownership is more likely to break. I would imagine that any breakage during carriage would not be covered anyway.

The cost of the warranty covering the risk of repair for the full warranty period has been paid in full by the first owner so charging a second owner to transfer the warranty for the reasons you have given are not valid; you are being paid twice for the same thing.

DrTeeth

@ Steve N5AC

Do new owners spend a couple of hours on the phone to support too. To me support does not cover a two hour tutorial on how the kit works instead of RTFM.

DrTeeth

@ G4YDO

The other companies updates are very infrequent, they do not enhance the radio too much at all, they are mainly bug fixes. Bug fixes for the 6x00 1.x line will still be free. The paucity of software updates whas one of the reasons why I chose Flex.

Flex has a team continually working on the software. I wonder how much priority the others give to software development?

I am happy to pay, if I see fit, for the v2 upgrade. Nobody is forcing me