Stranger in a strange land ...

SteveM

Bill,

You said: "Every state has a contest and there is usually one every weekend, that makes it hard for those that get on there radio mostly weekends."

Last year, there were only 24 out of 52 weekends used for state QSO parties. On one of the weekends South Dakota had its contest and the results are:

• In State Fixed High Power:
  1) KF0XO - 41,667
  2) K0LEW - 20,460
  3) W0PIR - 3,220
• In State Fixed Low Power:
  1) KD6CP/0 - 14,892
  2) KM0F - 247
  3) WB0TML - 109
  4) KC0MVF - 6
• In State Rover High Power:
  No Entries
• In State Rover Low Power:
  1) K7RE - 40,200
  2) W0SEB - 12,616
• Out of State - Not even worth mentioning

Hmm. Six points total took 4th place for 150W rigs. This is what makes it hard for you to get some bandwidth?

Bill -VA3WTB

No it can be done, if you keep moving around, it is still hard with so many operators splatering well outside the band pass or just talking over the conversation your having. It sure seemed like a lot more contest then that, my mistake. anyhow Steve, those are my thoughts and I'm sure you want to pick at what ever I say you may disagree with, but I have no ambition to debate this any further.

Burt Fisher

From the ARRL site, "Field Day is not a contest; no certificates are awarded. Find a Field Day site near you or input your site to share with others." Now I wonder if you will something few hams do, apologize?

I despise child molesters so if I have an opinion on them, my opinion is bogus?

I need nothing to despise. I like you and almost all the hams here. Most are much smarter than I.

DrTeeth

The trouble is with contesters (those who live and breath contests) and not contests themselves. These days with all the tech at our disposal, contesting groups have become 'willy waving' contests as we say in the UK. Each person showing off how big and better their station is.

I enjoy every QSO, the chattyer the better, even if it is with a ham down the road. The magic of speaking to somebody via radio still amazes me. As for my teenage children and their 'why not Skype?' attitude, sheesh.

Tim - W4TME

No slight  Some days we just want to be an "A" and relax a bit.

SteveM

Bill,

I do not want to pick at your words nor debate. For some strange reason it struck me, on this single isolated thread, to call people out for their BS. Therefore, I'm taking issue with those who make sweeping generalizations that are simply untrue and an excuse for disparaging their brethren.

You ought to know that most of us here are Flex users. We all see the same bands and we all see them in their entirety, give or take a few dB of propagation and/or antenna gain. From my limited experience, I rarely see congested bands except for the few occasions when one of the big events is scheduled. On the contrary, on most nights the bands are pretty bleak - so bleak, in fact, one might wonder whether amateurs really need all of the bandwidth that was given to them.

So there sits my son, in the basement, every night calling out CQ, making contacts, exchanging cards, never once complaining about contesters or congestion. What's wrong with him, Bill? Is he ****?

W7NGA

Steve, it isn't the same experience for everyone or an equal playing field. My thing is 15-meter AM on 21.420, 21.430, 21.440. By convention, it is a very narrow and limited spectrum to enjoy my hobby as I desire. The contests annihilate that window. It seems to me, that an allocated slice of the band that disallows (or greatly discourages) contesting, would let everyone enjoy the hobby on weekends. I don't believe QSY'ing is an issue for anyone. However, there should be a slice of the band to go to as haven from the insanity. That just doesn't seem unreasonable to me.
73's .. dan

SteveM

It is unreasonable if that section of the band goes largely unused. As I said above, the bands mostly go unused the way it is. Your own words are "My thing is 15-meter AM on 21.420, 21.430, 21.440". Since it is "your thing" to occupy those frequencies then they must be open a large percentage of the time when you want them. I wonder if you might just be greedy and unwilling to share the bandwidth.

Instead of sitting here on a message board complaining about it, why don't one of you document your issue and present it to the AARL. You can simply take screen shots with a timestamp of your pet band (you know, the one you think you own) on a daily basis. If you can show that say 67%, or 50%, or even 25% of the time the band is "annihilated", you might gain some support.

SteveM

From the ARRL site, "Field Day is not a contest; no certificates are awarded. Find a Field Day site near you or input your site to share with others." Now I wonder if you will something few hams do, apologize?

Ok, Burt. You are correct, I was wrong. You must have really swelled up when you found that little gem. Please tell me, though, since they list the event on their contest calendar, post FD results with the rest of the contest results, and define the objective of the event as "To work as many stations as possible on any and all amateur bands...", how is it that this event is, in your mind, a good event, whereas, any other event with similar objective is a bad event? Is it simply because there is no certificate awarded for FD? Are the signal reports somehow more honest for FD? Are the contacts longer than 10s for FD?

I despise child molesters so if I have an opinion on them, my opinion is bogus?

This is a dishonest tactic, Burt. Child molestation is immoral by all sane standards and all forms of it are against the law. It is not a matter of opinion. Opinions can be bogus, though.

I need nothing to despise. I like you and almost all the hams here.

I like you too, Burt. I just think your opinion of contesters is entirely too harsh and rigid. Without contesters, this hobby might wither and die.

W7NGA

I have never said it is 'my band'. It is 'our band' so let us share equally.
The rest of your reply makes little sense to me.
Let's talk Flex Radios ...

SteveM

Sorry if I was unclear.

What I meant to say was that I don't believe there is a huge problem with contests disrupting other HAM activity. I simply do not see it. It is my contention that those who complain about it, greatly exaggerate the inconvenience that contests cause them. I asked for substance to your argument and suggested taking screenshots of the SSDR panadapter on a daily basis that show "annihilation" of the band. The number of screenshots documented over a year, divided by 365, provides a metric that can either support or oppose your contention.

W7NGA

The crux of the issue is operation during a contest. Yes, the AM window on 15-meters is generally dead on weekdays .. from lack of interest or poor band conditions. On weekends, when most hams operate methinks, when a SSB contest exists the window is annihilated without any chance of an AM QSO. I suspect the same issue exists for those on SSB and SSTV wanting to casually operate. 

It's a simple scenario. I fly for an airline. I am gone except on weekends. I settle into the shack on Saturday and turn on the Flex .. and it is one of many contest weekends. Hopeless. I turn the Flex off and go fly aerobatics. I return late in the day and the contest is over. The band is now dead. Propagation has evaporated. 
 
True, there are alternative bands where I could join other escapees. Not unreasonable, but philosophically jejune. A no-contesting allocation of a reasonable slice of the pie would be an equitable solution. I'd be pleased and most of my argument would vanish. I wouldn't have to take up golf .. and I would be grateful.

I am off to southeast Asia for seven weeks .. contest away.

SteveM

Good grief. You're saying the bands ought to be tailored according to exactly what you prefer? Can't you foresee that even if a chunk of spectrum was carved out just as you wish, you would still be out in the dark. It's about the number of operators occupying the bands, not what they are doing or the mode of operation. If you were to have your way with your pie-in-the-sky little chunk of spectrum heaven, where do you think all of the SSTV, the SSB rag-chewers, the LIDs from 80m-way, the RTTY'ers, the CW'ers, and the AM'ers will converge?

It seems more reasonable to me the way it is now. The thousands and thousands of operators all contend with equal opportunity, and equal patience, and equal tolerance of non-ideal conditions, for the same bandwidth. Why is it an AM rag-chewer should have an easier go of it, than an SSB contester?

BTW, I am not a contester.

W7NGA

A reasonable compromise -
If it is a SSB contest the SSB, SSTV, and AM'ers would still have a small slice to operate in during the contest hours. If CW and RTTY, there would be a slice. 
The big question is ... why use the entire spectrum for the contest? 
I don't know how long you've been a ham Steve, but there is no chance of a casual QSO on 15-meters during a contest. Not without serious retribution!

Co-existence is a lovely idea ... lovely, but unworkable.
I am simply asking for a slice. The contesters didn't ask at all. They just took it. And took it all. 
cheers ...

SteveM

The big question is simple to answer. It is because even the entire spectrum is not enough to support all of the operators. You being only one out of many thousands of operators.

Does a casual QSO on 15m include setting a big-**** AM signal on top of some other smaller signal? If so, then I can understand why there would be retaliation, even if I would not condone it. However, retaliation would also happen in non-contest scenarios.

Are you, or have you ever been married? If not, then you do not know the meaning of co-existence. Contrary to what you claim, co-existence is possible as it has been accomplished millions of times. When it fails, perhaps, one or the other has decided to refuse the notion.

W7NGA

I hope being married for 34 years qualifies and might convince others I am the 'master of compromise'! I feel our conversations here on this forum are somewhat representative of what the ham community might be feeling at large. It's polarizing and ultimately divisive. I have always been respectful during my ham tenure and as I have said, I understand that we all come to the hobby with different motivations. I am asking that we not forget this .. and craft workable solutions for the accommodation of all.

How dare you call my AM signal '****'

SteveM

I agree. I am exhausted. 73's Dan.

DrTeeth

I would say that many contesters (not the majority by any means, but enough to matter) are selfish who run more than their legal power limit and transmit such poor quality signals. Look at the behaviour over a DX pileup.

The sort of people that one would wish to play by some rules are the type who do not care about their fellow man. Schmuck on the air and on the road too - you know the type.

KY6LA_Howard

As an Avid Contester and DXer..  who owns equipment that could easily break the rules .... It is absolutely NO FUN to break the rules to win at all costs as that is not a challenge... Personally I cannot understand how anyone could get pleasure by cheating...

The challenge is to win contests and break through DX pileups within the rules...

Now that is REAL FUN!!

DrTeeth

I agree with you 110% Howard.

Best wishes.

Jay -- N0FB

I am a very occasional contester using my 6300.  Contesting plays a very small part of my HF Amateur radio life.  Good ergonomics, extreme portability, and capability are the  trifecta in my wheelhouse.  The promise of Maestro addresses all of these.  

Maximum workflow and excellent ergonomics on a HF Rig is the proverbial flood which lifts all boats....Contester and Non-Contester alike.

Jay -- N0FB

A rose by any other names smells as sweet.

Jay -- N0FB

Dan said:  "The joke is, that most Flex 6000's have an echo on their signal due to RF intrusion. It may be subtle but it is insidious and noticeable to the critical ear. Additionally, perfect 100% AM modulation is not attainable through the ACC port and RF ingress is very problematic. This too, is well-documented and the topic of many ESSB and AM aficionado discussions."  

My response would be, open a ticket with Flex Tech support and supply as much documentation possible so that if this problem really exists it can be handled.  

If this problem exists and a workaround or best practice exists to either null the problem or drastically reduce it, provide those solutions here.

Burt Fisher

@SteveM
Calling some **** because their viewpoint is different, really?

AM signals ****? Another insult to those who appreciate quality over quanity.

Burt Fisher

SteveM. My God a ham that admits he was wrong! Amazing. However in the same vein you were also right because on your link under the ARRL contest calendar, there it was, Field Day. Thus you had good reason to say Field Day was a contest as the ARRL talked out of both sides of its mouth. 

SteveM

Burt, I didn't call anyone **** and I didn't insult anyone by saying AM signals are ****.

Burt Fisher

" What's wrong with him, Bill? Is he ****?" Did I misinterpret this?
"Does a casual QSO on 15m include setting a big-**** AM" Didn't you say that?

I invite a correction.

SteveM

Burt!!!!

Please read the context of my post. I used the word "****", but I did not call anyone ****. I asked Bill if my son is **** for having a good time making QSOs yet never complaining about contesters.

I used the word "****", but I did not describe any person as ****. That an AM signal is "fatter" than a CW signal is a generally accepted truism.

I now refuse to post in this thread anymore.

KY6LA_Howard

@Burt - another 10 points towards your 2015 Curmudgeon of the Year Award.. that makes 30 points in 2 days...You are slowly catching up to N6KI who still leads you by at least 1,000 points as he gets an automatic 100 points for annoying me every time he yells at me for being too slow to catch a Q in a contest...

Burt Fisher

Steve I never said you called a person ****. You insulted AMers by deriding their mode.

Howard you can't copy the letter Q?