Going to buy a Flex 6500

Steve Cook

After test driving a friends Flex 6700 for the past month. I am going to buy a Flex 6500.  This has been a fantastic radio to play with and I want my own.

I do not want to go back to my Icom 756 when when friend comes back from vacation.  

The only thing that would help a new person getting evolved with the flex radio would be the correct configuration for some of the digital software out there.  I have managed to find the information by reading through many posting about software configuration and pulling the correct configuration information out.  This works but can be very and time consuming to find all of the correct information. 

Looking forward to having fun with the flex radio system

KD7IQL
Steve

WA2SQQ

You wont regret it. Good luck.

Dave -- W7IWW

Best wishes.  Went from IC 756 Pro 2 > Flex 5000A > Flex 6700.  Just keeps getting better.

Jim Best

Steve, what was the deciding factor to cause you to settle on the 6500?  I have been undecided between the  6500 and the 6700.  Presently I have a 5000A.
73 and Thanks
Jim WU7G

Norm - W7CK

Deciding between the 6500 and the 6700 was really hard for me.  I eventually ended up getting the 6700 and really haven't looked back.  No buyers remorse here, although I'm sure if I would have gotten the 6500, I would have always wondered what the faster processors, 2 meter functionality and diversity would have been like and I'm sure I would have wished I would have sprung for the top of the line.   Its been more than a year since I bought my 6700 and I'm real happy with my decision.  I knew at the time that it was a really expensive rig, but once I bought it, I really never thought about it much after that.  Good luck in what ever you decide on.  Either way, you'll have a lot of fun - shoot, either rig is great!

Randy

Steve, I have been running a 5000a for 3 years and plan to move up. Wonder if you would share your reasoning after using the 6700, why you are purchasing a $6500? If it is purely economics, I get it. But I am going thru a decision factor in my mind based on my use, where is the money best spent. Looking for others thoughts and what they have found. Thanks, Randy N4FNB

Norm - W7CK

I am 61 years old and figured I worked hard all my life and I wanted to treat myself to the best.  I also realized that I have some money tucked away and if I kicked the bucket in a few years, I won't be taking any of it with me!  

Simon Lewis

I've gone for a 6500 .. middle ground ... preselectors for DX and contest work, GPSDO capable for hi stab for moonbounce and locking my Kuhne electronics TR series transverters to - one SCU is ok for me ... didn't need the 144 capability with the Kuhne (can't beat their performance) - so best of all worlds 73 Simon ZL4PLM

Steve Cook

I come down to the price point.  The 6500 fits with my budget.  This has been a tough decision but I think Smart SDR 1.4 pushed the point for me.

Steve
KD7IQL

Ken - NM9P

Congratulations, and welcome to the Flex family" You will love the new 6500. They are a wonderful rig, and continue to improve with greater flexibility. For even more fun, be sure to check out the postings that several of us, thanks to William, have been using DJ MIDI controllers to interface via the API. Very slick, versatile, and flexible. Ken-NM9P

Walt - KZ1F

There have been a lot of people responding to your comment/question. I am not sure there was a question in there. But there is another side of the coin. I think we, as a group, would be remiss if nobody pointed this out.

There are many different motivating factors some in common, some not so much, that drove the decision of those on this board to buy a Flex 6000. One, oddly enough, is it isn't done cooking yet. In other words, all that the 6000 will be hasn't occurred yet. Will that be telepathic modulation? No.  The flex 6000, likely shared with the 5000, is it takes a lot of real estate on Windows. 1) You will require Microsoft Windows, this may or may not be an issue. 2) For best results you will require Microsoft WIndows with multiple monitors. For myself, I am a software developer, I've had multiple monitors at home and work for, at least, a decade. If you are crapped for desk room, that might be an issue. My primary system (2 monitors) is Linux so SmartSDR and HRD and CW Skimmer and SDR Bridge are relegated to a 15" laptop. This is a huge issue for me, lack of SmartSDR real estate. It is not a direct reflection on FRS at all. I think the question you have to really answer, after that initial blush of playing with one at a friend's house, is can you live without a front panel. I've heard from many that that singular issue is the deal breaker. If it really is a non issue for you than, absolutely, the 6000 series is an excellent choice. If you aren't sure about no front panel...seriously consider it before you drop a dime. If you only begrudgingly use a PC for logging and DXCluster, give this point serious thought. No one makes really excellent under $2000 radios any more.

Full disclosure: I am resolving the Windows-centric issue. I can not, however, resolve the no front panel. Spoiler alert, the non-windows version of the control surface I am writing will allow a receiver on each monitor. That is nothing that FRS can't do so maybe put it on the idea list or add your voice to that idea others have put on the idea list.

Walt Corey - kz1f (6500)

Ken - NM9P

The "no control panel" issue is quickly fading as many users are beginning to write utilities for IOS & Windows using the API to control various functions.

We have K6TU's excellent IOS Control, K9DUR's several excellent utilities, others have written Memory Stacks, S-Meters, and most recently William - W4WHL and I (and others) have been working on various forms of DJ MIDI controllers with great success.  

The floodgates have just opened, and the 6000 series will become increasingly more versatile and more "flex-able" at an ever-increasing rate as more and more people discover how easy it is, even for those who have not spent a lifetime doing complex computer programming.

Ken - NM9P

Steve - KD8QWT

It's only a matter of time before someone creates a true panel, like a fully functional remote head.  I'm getting ready to order my 6300 soon.  One of the projects on my list is a standalone panel with 2 LCD displays.  Looks like a fun and doable project.


Steve - KD8QWT

Walt - KZ1F

Ken, I said NO FRONT PANEL, not people have written stuff for it.
The no front panel won't 'quickly fade' until no radio manufacturer makes a radio with a front panel. The measure of the 'no front panel' adoption is measured by just how quickly other vendors drop theirs. Yes, I understand everybody wants other to provide tacit support for their own decision. I get that, what I suspect the loyalists want are other true believers not someone who may in a month or two regret their decision. If recollect serves, those on here that have expressed reservations or buyers remorse have gotten verbally tarred and feathered.

Walt - KZ1F

Steve, that would be a money maker! I suspect it would be immensely fun and doable. I just don't possess that mechanical/electrical engineering skill set to even plan out in my head. I constructed a lot of Heathkit products. I never designed a one.

Jay Nation

NO FRONT PANEL, to clean either. always fresh (Brand New) and dust free. Software upgradeable too. 

73, Jay - NO5J

Ken - NM9P

Walt. no big argument from me here,
I am aware that there are some who cannot seem to make the adjustment in operating style the Flex requires.  I have no negative thoughts toward them.  Change is difficult, and some change is more difficult for different people than for others.  (I remember wondering if I would ever get used to the dimmer switch on my car moving from the floor to the steering wheel!)

When one is used to a particular operating style or particular control panel layout, it is often very frustrating.  Some adapt more easily than others.  

I remember 20 years ago taking about 18 months of regular visits to R&L Electronics in Indy carefully making my decision between the Kenwood TS-850SAT, Yaesu FT-990, and Icom IC-751A.  They were all similarly priced, and had similar performance specs (though in most cases the 850 was the better rig) .  The final choice was swayed by ergonomics.  I liked the way the 850 control panel and interface was arranged.  It matched my operating style and anticipated future uses.

My main point was that for those willing or able to give it a try, there are options that can help ease the transition to "no knobs"  SDR radios.  

I never really bought the argument that moving to a Flex or any other SDR required "no knobs" thinking.  I always thought that it could mean "knobs exactly the way I want them, either real or virtual."  

Adapting to the Flex was made much easier with the addition of the FlexControl Knob.  (There are some controls that are much easier with a knob or slider than clicking and dragging a mouse.)  

Though I do have sympathy and a little sadness for those who cannot make the change to the SDR style of operating, because I know the performance advantages they may be missing, I certainly wish them no ill will.  that would be just plain dumb -- why should anyone have animus towards someone else because of a matter of style or adaptation?   I do hope that they might try some of the other control options, such as MIDI Controls, before they give up completely, so they do not make their decision based upon incomplete information or inadequate experience.

But if they find that the Flex/SDR scene is not for them, I wish them well.... There are a lot of other great rigs out there that will allow them to have a lot of fun.  If I were not enthralled with my 6500, I would be looking at Kenwood TS-590 or the TS-990 (Which I couldn't afford.)  There are several Yaesu, ICOM and Ten-Tec that are quality rigs as well.  The bottom line is that this is a hobby and should be enjoyable, not a source of stress and frustration.  

Ken - NM9P

Walt - KZ1F

Randy, if you'd like (of course once I hit submit you're vote won't count) I will recount why I bought the 6500 vs the 6700. I don't know what the price list is now but when I ordered the 6500, they were just taking orders then, I, too, 'agonized' over which. So, why I bought the 6500, it was WAY better than the TS-530SP it was replacing. Actually the Flex 1500 sort of replaced the 530 but 5 watts vs 100 wasn't really a replacement. The 6000 Series is made in the US, by American workers, we, as unquenchable consumers, import way too many things. I don't mind buying stuff, I'd just prefer my neighbors get some benefit from it (multiplier effect). Why I didn't buy the 6700. I still don't know what one would do with 8 receivers. I can understand 2, I can even understand 3, but even 4, not without software. Eight was, to me, a bridge too far. The 6700 was almost twice the price of the 6500. Diversity Reception. It's not really clear to me it buys anything beyond bragging rights, plus you need two active antennas. Some people will pay any price to get what they perceive to be the very best money can afford. I am not one of those. For all intents and purposes the 6500 is technically the same as the 6700 (minus 4 receivers) and about 1/2 the cost. Now, the AI contest program I spoke of earlier, yes, it could utilize 8 active receivers. But 1st in show is not a money award so being high scorer in single op is, to me, not worth the upgrade costs. But that's me, you're mileage may vary.  No question, it is a very good radio, one of the current market best. All things change. I doubt Kenwood, Yaesu, Icom, and Elecraft are willing to cede the high ground so, yes, the race is on. I hope FRS does stay in the lead, or at least place (win, place, show). There is a reason my 530 is not in the top 5 on Sherwood's or ARRL's list. And despite the zealot-speak over the Flex, we actually want that race, it makes all the survivors better which means we, the consumers, are constantly presented with the best available choices. Once it was the 5000, now it's the 6000, maybe in 3 years it will be the 7000. When you think about it, we want that race. 

John n0snx

Well said Ken.... SDR isn't for everyone... Each of us have our own idea of whats best... But after having fun playing SDR for 6+ years, NO way could I ever be satisfied with a knobbed radio again. It would be SOOOOO boring staring at a knobbed radio with no action going on except the S meter...LOL  OH and WELCOME to the flex world Steve! Hope you like it as much as ME 

Ken - NM9P

The biggest gain for me, in addition to crunch-proof receiver, brickwall filtering, and superb TX audio, has been the panafall.  It if far superior to the 1500/3000/5000 and other SDR rigs.  As a visually oriented ham, I found that moving from the TS-850 to the 6500 was like moving from driving a Ford Pinto with a small peephole to a high performance sportscar with the convertible top down!

Now.... Why didn't I get the 6700?  I wish I could have afforded it!  but it was $3200 more than the 6500.  But I DO wish I had been able to swing it.  I would like to have:

1) 2 Meter coverage - just add a 432 transverter for a great U/V Satellite rig.
2) more pans/slices - for future expansion of DIGI modes
3) More juice in the processor - for future expansion of modes and capabilities
4) Dual Receive - not so much for what it can do NOW (though dual antenna diversity and/or listening on 6 while DXing on 160 would be nice!)  but more for what it will be able to do TOMORROW! (Such as phase-steered diversity and beam steered receive noise reduction, etc.)
5) Possible cross-band full duplex in the future - especially in the satellite bands.

But I couldn't justify the additional money from my limited budget for the 6700.  I am glad, though, to have the 6500 rather than the 6300.  The 6300 was not released when I bought my 6500, but if I had it to do again, I would still choose the 6500.
It added enough performance possibilities for the additional $1500 that It is worth it to me.  YMMV.

Ken - NM9P

Randy

Ken, I follow your reasoning, regardless of if you have the money, is it the best money spent for your needs. Well, probably if that is the qualifier, I would stay with the 5000A with dual receivers. The 6500 is 2015 technology vs 1928 technology, but my comparison was not to a non-SDR rig, but a 6500 vs a 6700. I can't see getting $3,200 of value for my use of the 6700 over what the 6500 will do. There is a good program on the generations of radio that I found from a k6 ham in the form of a PowerPoint presentation. It explains the best of anything I have seen in three years on the differences of SDR and the changes over the last 100 years. I put a link to it on my website for others to download from Dropbox. My website is my call, www.n4fnb.com. Thanks for sharing your decision process. I think it applies well to my needs. Randy N4FNB

Walt - KZ1F

Sorry Ken, gotta say this. I scanned to fast the first time:
"Though I do have sympathy and a little sadness for those who cannot make the change to the SDR style of operating, because I know the performance advantages they may be missing, I certainly wish them no ill will.  that would be just plain dumb -- why should anyone have animus towards someone else because of a matter of style or adaptation?  "

I need glasses, some times I have problems adjusting to a new prescription. But I need glasses. Some people have trouble 'adjusting' to Caviar, or headcheese, or calves tongue. They don't need (or want) fish eggs or brain. A completely illogical comparison. Technically, I encourage you to look at the Feb Sherwood rankings. Some people want the radio the center of the action, others want a surround sound 3-4 monitor multimedia experience as the center. Neither should illicit sympathy or sadness or animus.

Simon Lewis

actually as a DX'r and contester I like the concept and panadapter but a small scale VFO knob and key functions at my my fingers is a must .. its not a thing about not managing SDR's or need a knobbed radio .. actually I have used 4 SDR's already .. a K3, KX3, TS590 and FDM-Duo. Having that VFO for finding weak signals is a must for me ... something more upmarket than the flex control, not as geeky as a the DJ controller, but not a full knobbed front panel .... there... clear as mud huh!

N3HQB

Try the Contour Shuttle Xpress...

Randy

I agree with Simon as liking to use the knob for VFO tuning during contest so I use the Flex Knob. However I can set my mouse wheel and do the same.

Randy

Ken and Walt, the link on my webpage requires a log in to Dropbox. I am in San Antonio for a few days but will fix it when I get back . It is a very good explaination as to the importance of filtering and how the affect of applification at the different stages on the 1928 design radios such as the 756, or the 7600, or Other Icom, Yaesu and Kenwood rigs based on the engineering. If you Google KY6LA for a club presentation it might be found. It is well worth the time and effort.

KY6LA_Howard

Here is the link to my SDR-101 Presentation  V1.0

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10740053/Modern%20Radio%20SDR-101%20V1.pdf

V2.0 will be published shortly (if I ever finish corrections and updates)