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PTT Audio fail once in a while Still a Problem, and Praise 1.4

Jim  KJ7SJim KJ7S Member ✭✭
edited June 2020 in SmartSDR for Windows
Bret, WX7Y, reported this problem a few months ago with 1.3.8 and it was thought that perhaps it had been fixed in 1.4. Over the last several days I have noticed that the occasional failure of audio to come up when PTT is engaged, is still there.  Few and usually far between but still there. It seems to be more likely if you happen to "quick key" once or twice fairly close together for whatever reason, it does still fail to bring up the audio, so when it happens a quick un-key and re-key usually takes care of it. 1.4/6300 quad core intel based machine. 6300 "E- cable" to wireless router. No outside software like DDUtil or HRD or any of that. More of an observation than a complaint. Love the way 1.4 is running for the most part now that we've had a chance to re-learn a few of the nuances specific to the new software it works extremely well with very few  hiccups. Great Job by all who made this version look almost completely seamless with all the work "under the hood". Cut the  load on the machine at least in half compared to other versions.

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  • Tim - W4TMETim - W4TME Administrator, FlexRadio Employee admin
    edited June 2020
    You left out some important info.  How are you keying the radio?  Specifically which hardware port and what device are you using as the switch?
  • Michael - N5TGLMichael - N5TGL Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    I was playing around in the CQ WPX contest yesterday and experienced the same thing.  I key down, red TX light illuminates on the radio but no power out.  I'm using a footswitch plugged into the RCA plug on the back.
  • Jon_KF2EJon_KF2E Member ✭✭
    edited July 2018
    For what it's worth, I noticed the same thing although it might be less frequent than it was with 1.38. I was keying with a foot switch plugged into the PTT port.

    Jon...kf2e
  • WX7YWX7Y Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 2020
         Here are my help ticket numbers on this problem, this all started with my Radio after I received it back from the Hardware update #7315 .


    You can look at my trouble tickets and correspondence with Dudley over the last 6 full months now on this problem.

     #9042#7876 

    The problem with loosing MIC audio was NOT fixed in version 1.14 SmartSDR!

    I just can't figure out how to make it happen over and over so you could see it happen, It just happens randomly.

    I have tried keying the Radio from the back PTT jack and the front 8 pin MIC jack and has nothing to do with keying the radio, it keys fine there is just no output or PanAdapter signal showing and acts just like it does if you have the wrong "AF input source" until you un-key and re-key the radio.

    73's
    Bret
    WX7Y

  • K2CMK2CM Member ✭✭
    edited June 2020
    I have tried to reproduce your problem here in NY by frequently double keying the mike.  I am unable to make it happen.  I can, however, reproduce the problem on my 2 meter radio.  I traced that to bad contacts in the mike, so replaced the mike.

    You might with to check the contacts in your foot switch.  I had a similar problem with my foot-switch and another radio some time ago that I traced to a bad contact in the foot-switch.
  • John n0snxJohn n0snx Member
    edited September 2015
    I too have the same issue 6300 & 6500.. It does it under any PTT circumstances.. Keying from the front with a heil cable and a PTT hand button keyer or Directly thru the rear PTT...I have even seen it using the MOX to switch the TX on and off with a mouse...I have various hand keyers and it does it with all of them...This has been a known issue since I got my first 6300 back in May.. It has been discussed here before as I remember...
  • Jon_KF2EJon_KF2E Member ✭✭
    edited March 2015
    It seems unlikely it is the foot switch if the radio keys but doesn't put out audio.

    Jon...kf2e
  • John n0snxJohn n0snx Member
    edited April 2015
    I agree Jon... The PTT only keys the radio... Has nothing to do with audio out...
  • WX7YWX7Y Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 2015
    Yes the radio Keys fine just no TX audio out, oh yea the Amplifier also keys through the radio so it CAN'T be a PTT switch issue.
    Bret
    WX7Y
  • Dale KB5VEDale KB5VE Member ✭✭
    edited March 2015
    I had the same issue with 1.38 using vox and rear pry. I have had it happen once with v 1.4 using vox
  • Jon_KF2EJon_KF2E Member ✭✭
    edited July 2018
    Not sure if it's important, but it seems most likely to occur when I'm sure I'm going to get a rare DX station.

    Jon...kf2e
  • WX7YWX7Y Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 2020
    To bad people don't turn in a trouble ticket on there issues, mine with this "NO TX Audio" is 6 months old, all I kept being told was         "no one else has reported this". 

    Looking at all the replies thus far shows there are quite a few that have this problem as there was the first time I put this issue on the Flex Email Community and the Flex Yahoo reflector back last November.

    This Email Community service is NOT a trouble ticket or Official way to let FLEX know of these kind of hard to recreate problems and if you don't do a Official trouble ticket then these hard to find issues may never get found. 

    It's easy to do a Help ticket, in SmartSDR click on "HELP" then click on "HelpDesk" then follow the instructions on the page that come up.

    With all do respect for the wonderful FLEX crew, if the Flex folks monitoring this reflector can't readily recreate the problem on there radios they won't make a trouble ticket for you!

    73's
    Bret
    WX7Y


  • Jason WhiteakerJason Whiteaker Member ✭✭
    edited June 2020
    Yes, this problem seems to still exist with 1.4. I saw it with 1.3.x as well. What I do is hit the TUNE button once, then when I hit "Tune" in WSJT-X, the transmitter will key. I don't know why it does this, and I've spoken to the helpdesk about it. It's reproducible in that it happens when the radio first boots up. Once I do the little pre-click PTT, it's fine for the rest of the time I'm using the radio.

    If this were a data network situation, I'd liken it to an ARP cache timeout, and the network node is re-ARP'ing the network. Since it's DAX, I'm sure it's something else, but again, it smacks of some sort of "caching" thing. It's not annoying enough for me to hassle with it. I just click once and go on my way. :-)

    -Jason

  • Andrew O'BrienAndrew O'Brien Member ✭✭
    edited July 2018
    I wonder if this has has any Windows etiology ?  It sound similar to very occasional loss of  PTT digital audio when using a Flex with digital modes.  I eventually solved it by eliminating power saving options within Windows . I Just a wild idea that maybe this issue is similar. 

  • Jon_KF2EJon_KF2E Member ✭✭
    edited March 2015
    Andrew,

    I don't think it is Windows related. The issue is occurring with a PTT switch and mic plugged directly into the radio. Windows doesn't touch either of these.

    Jon...kf2e
  • WX7YWX7Y Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 2015
    Jason, Do you mean start SmartSDR or you turn Power ON to the Radio when you say "radio first boots up"?

    Just trying to recreate this here to find a pattern so it can be recreated. 

    73's
    Bret
    WX7Y
  • Jon_KF2EJon_KF2E Member ✭✭
    edited March 2015
    Bret,

    If you check this thread...

    https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/occasionally-no-tx-audio-with-footswitch-ptt

    You can see that Flex has acknowledged the issue previously and has it in their system. To be honest I don't view it as a very big problem but would like to see it eventually resolved.

    Jon...kf2e 

  • Jason WhiteakerJason Whiteaker Member ✭✭
    edited March 2015
    Hey Andrew...not sure power saving type functions are in effect, at least for me. I went through those exercises when I was having the severe audio stuttering problem, due to Windows DPC issues. I tried everything - turn off all power saving features, update video drivers, modify 3D graphics settings, crank the display rate down in the panadapter, shut down Bluetooth and WiFi adapters, update BIOS and chipset drivers, and even modified various NIC parameters like buffering, power saving, TCP/UDP checksum offloading, etc., etc., etc. Nothing worked. However, when I went to 1.4, the audio stuttering has absolutely disappeared. Before, opening a web page could kick of the problem. Now, I *can't* get it to fail! Don't know what Flex did, but that little feature of DAX was mightily resolved.

    I suspect this PTT thing still has something to do with DAX and the network media streams it uses. The thing I notice, and doesn't seem to be quite right, is that as soon as the radio boots, it starts streaming IP packets to the last unicast address of the computer. I've not bothered to watch the radio boot on Wireshark to see if there's some sort of connection negotiation happening that I can't see. To be honest, I've never bothered to look because there's nothing I could do about it if something looked weird anyway. Perhaps there's a negotiation happening that I just didn't catch in the analyzer. At any rate, I think the problem resides in the network/packet subsystem with DAX. Who knows, though, since Windows is Windows. Back in the day, Windows NT allows Ring0 access to the video drivers to get around performance issues. I wouldn't want to be a developer who's trying to work around the embrace-and-extend mentality of Microsoft!

  • Jason WhiteakerJason Whiteaker Member ✭✭
    edited March 2015
    The problem is after the radio boots, and, I go to transmit with, say, WSJT-X. I can hit "Tune" within the WSJT-X program, but the radio will not go into transmit. DAX shows transmit audio and the VU meter indicates output. One I hit "Tune" on the Flex interface, the radio will go into transmit. Any subsequent hits of "Tune" within WSJT-X or general transmission will work fine from that point forward...until the next time I want to play radio.

    I shut my rig down gracefully by hitting the power button, then letting the radio shut off. I then power off my power supply. Reverse the process when I want to play - power on supply, boot workstation to desktop, power on radio, then start SmartSDR. I start the radio last just in case a conflict happens with the number of DHCP devices on my home network. I have 4 mobile devices that once in a great while will not respond to the ping check by my DHCP server, and I'll end up with an address conflict. It's happened maybe twice in the last several years.

  • WX7YWX7Y Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 2015
    No not a big deal but still needs to make it to a BUG list to be fixed which so far it hasn't.
    Bret
    WX7Y
  • WX7YWX7Y Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 2015
    Thanks
    WX7Y
  • Jason WhiteakerJason Whiteaker Member ✭✭
    edited March 2015
    OK, I did a quick packet capture of what the radio does when it boots...

    It appears to grab an IP address from DHCP. It then broadcasts a UDP discover message to port 4992, apparently to elicit response from any SmartSDR/DAX clients on the network. My DAX client hears this broadcast, ARPs the network to get the MAC of the Flex, receives the ARP reply, then proceeds to open a TCP connection with the radio. There's some media stream negotiation, then we see the VITA 49 (Virtual Radio Transport protocol) start streaming to the DAX client. Seemingly a pretty straightforward process.

    So no, watching the streams start up as soon as the radio boots appears to be kosher. There's negotiation of the streams and then they do their thing till I shut down the radio. Probably should have performed this packet capture before, as now I'm back to not having a suspect in terms of the PTT issue. I was ready to blame DAX, and perhaps it is the problem. I just don't see anything that suggests a network transport problem that would munge the media streams, and in turn, proper DAX interaction between the radio and the workstation(s).

    -Jason, NK9B

  • WX7YWX7Y Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 2020
    NO It's NOT just DAX, it happens on the 8 Pin MIC jack on the front panel and the Balanced jack on the back using the rear PTT switch and as was previously reported by a couple people with VOX.

    Thanks again
    Bret
    WX7Y

  • Bill RobertsBill Roberts Member ✭✭
    edited November 2015
    I've had the same keying from the MOX button on the SSDR screen.
  • NX6D DaveNX6D Dave Member ✭✭
    edited December 2019

    I've seen this too on my 6300, with both 1.3.8 and 1.4.  I key my radio with a footswitch.  I know the keying signal is reaching the radio as I see the light change from green to red just below the power switch.  Releasing the footswitch and immediately rekeying has always remedied the problem.  I don't recall any instance of the problem in which I had to rekey more than once.

    It's clear when the problem occurs as I immediately notice that all the transmit indicators have appeared on the SSDR display, but none of the level indicators move from the bottom stops as I speak, including the very obvious power indicators on my amp.

    Posting issues like this on this forum is an effective way to get the problem into the software problem database.  When the problem is entered, there is a lot of detailed information available in these threads to support it.

    This is a nasty problem to resolve as it doesn't correlate to any particular setting or usage pattern, at least not for me.  It appears now and again and disappears for relatively long stretches.

  • Norm - W7CKNorm - W7CK Member ✭✭
    edited February 2017
    I've had the same issue.  For me, it is very infrequent and I haven't been able to track it down to any particular sequence or events so I really haven't been able to duplicate it.  It has happened on VOX as well as the PTT of the back off of the rig while using a foot switch.  Most inconvenient when using VOX. 
  • Jim  KJ7SJim KJ7S Member ✭✭
    edited January 2020
    Here is what I have found so far... keep in mind that, although I have turned in a new help ticket on this problem, I have not received a number or response from flex nor do I expect one since it is the weekend. That said. When it happens, it is not local hardware as some have theorized, as I can get audio to the software level...meaning that the audio level indicator is showing audio, the recorder is also showing audio, since I can record audio then play it back...but it is not making it to the transmitter. I will amend that to the help ticket, as soon as I receive one.  Jim  KJ7S
  • Joe - KC2TNJoe - KC2TN Member ✭✭
    edited November 2016
    LOL Jon, it seems to happen to me when it's my turn on a Net! Seriously though I have seen this happen to me on my 6500 but have not been able to pin it to anything repeatable.. I noticed my DDutil was out of date today is updated it but now have problem with the new version. UGH! Joe- KC2TN
  • Tom WarrenTom Warren Member
    edited May 2019
       I send the following input only to add to the database on this subject, since my setup may be a bit different from others who have reported so far.

       I run (not exclusively) a weekly 2M ssb/cw net using a foot operated switch into the front of a F6300 driving an elecraft XVTR into a KW amp. The radio is cabled to the PC with no other accessories.
       
       I noticed the problem about midway through v 1.38 version and guessed it was the
    footswitch, but since it happened for only a brief period, maybe on-off through 1 week, I no longer
    gave it much thought. I installed v1.4 as soon as it was released and haven't noticed an issue with it along these lines. 

       On the HF bands I mostly operate cw, at times using an elecraft amp w/o footswitch, and don't ever recall the issue there.

    Tom W4TMW
     
  • WX7YWX7Y Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 2015
    Hi Joe, I can help you on the DDUTIL issue but NOT on the FLEX server,
    If you run HRD LOGBOOK then DON'T UPGRADE yet, it breaks logbook
    73's
    Bret
    WX7Y
    [email protected]

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