One step forward, two steps back..................

K2CB Eric Dobrowansky

Am I the only one who feels like we have taken one step forward, only to take two steps back?

Well, maybe two steps forward and one step back.

By that, I mean:

1. Audio recorder tx playback now has new issues.

2. Waterfall settings now not properly balanced between tx and rx. If set for usable rx display, tx display is unusable, or vice-versa. It worked fine prior to this release.

3. Noise burst from tx audio buffer filling in rx mode STILL not fixed!

4. When SSDR is in full screen mode, the lower side of the 5th sidebar box is truncated. And scaling still non-existent.

5. There are a few other bugs I noticed that are not worth mentioning at this point.

And the numerous others being reported, which are of a lesser concern to my particular operating habits.

I seriously have to ask, what the heck were the beta testers focusing on for the last 6 months? Some of these items were picked up on by users within minutes of the release.

We were led to believe all this time was to ensure that the release would be stable and glitch free.  It seems far from it at this point. 

I don't mean to diminish all the hard work the developers have put into this release, but I do question the procedures and reporting mechanisms of the testing process.

Oh, wait a minute, I seem to recall that they are referred to as "alpha testers", so does that mean WE are the beta testers? 

I am not one to **** and moan, nor do I plan to dump my 6500 and move on, but come on, let's be real, and call it what it is.

I can't be the only one questioning it all.....................

Eric

K2CB

SteveM

"5. There are a few other bugs I noticed that are not worth mentioning at this point."

I gotta say, Eric, I think your whole list can be summed up by #5. These are all obscure ticky-tack bugs IMHO.

K1FR

Eric:

Understand your concerns, but to me it is one leap forward. For my operations the improvements are superb. Have not noticed the issues mentioned except for #4 which I believe was on v1.3x as well.

73, Tom
K1FR

DrTeeth

Eric, I was wondering the same myself, but did not have the cajones to break ranks and post.
Maybe the beta testers are too advanced and they are missing the basic stuff? I'm being serious. 
Maybe betas are being released too frequently? I once beta tested for a US company called 'MicroHelp' for an uninstaller product. No sooner had one loaded a beta, another was seemingly available. I just seemed to install betas and not have time test them properly, if at all.

It is like a manual being written by somebody really familiar with the software - the tome produced is often not that helpful to a basic user; often posing more questions in the reader's mind than it answers.

George KF2T

Have not observed any but #4, which should be (if I am interpreting correctly) worked on for 1.5's GUI refresh. There is a lengthy list of changes in the release notes that represent only a part of what was being focused on. I'd say the team did a great job!

As a wiser man than me said, "you can't please everyone."

Bill -VA3WTB

Sounds about right I think I counted about 6 items that Tim marked for bug tracker. Considering the deep deep surgery done on the software I think this number of bugs is simply remarkable. And as releases will be coming faster I'm sure they are right on top of them.

James Kennedy-WU5E

Oh mercy don't know where to start.1. if you have the processor on , turn it off. yesterday on 40m I guy with another flex 6500 and he told guy would other flex 6500 people said the recorder was broken, I use in contesting so I know it's not broke. My radio worked like a charm and he told me once I turned the processor off and drop the mic gain to 35 percent , no more bad tone  he said that turn off the processor clean up the audio of the voice recorder, Does Not you Mic support my setting. well I guess you need to look at you microphone setting.

Jim

WU5E

David Decoons, wo2x

Jim, it is impractical to turn off the processor and internal EQ (if you use it) to play a recording back then turn them back on for your TX audio. It is a regression from previous releases and it indeed is a bug.

I can concur with Eric on

#1 (need to have playback bypass compression & EQ automatically)

#2 RX waterfall has way too much gain vs TX waterfall.

#4 Need to scale so the 5 panels can be displayed properly on right side

Dave, wo2x

Lee - N2LEE

One area I agree with Eric on is the question of how wide of a beta group tested 1.4.  I can see some small things slipping through the cracks but the hardware ALC, which worked perfectly is now broke. This is one of those things that makes you go HUH ?   How could this slip through beta testing ?

I get annoyances like GUI issues and things like that basic features like ALC should not have missed the beta cycle.

I am hopeful that because 1.4 included major framework changes that the new updates will be a little more frequently.

James Kennedy-WU5E

Ok try and listen to the audio report. I was taking this a Flex 6500 owner and heard two guys talk about how bad the audio from the Flex 6000. I said let me try it. I turned off the processor and back the microphone gain to 35% and recorded his voice for 30 second and played it back for him , he said WOW! what a different from what , Now have to take his condition with a gain of salt , due to the solar conditions. but I went back to my setting I used 50% processor and 50% microphone gain and he said the Audio went bad.

This is live on the air testing , not reading out a manual.

Jim

WU5E

David Decoons, wo2x

Hi Jim

I use balanced input here. The mic gain makes no difference on recording playback. Having processor on or internal TX EQ on does affect the playback.

Dave

Sergey R5AU

Hi James, i passed with step even on previous versions, pls use EQ !!!!, You know output sugnal some body sence like sytntetic and ofcourse that gie them discomfort, but i recommend be sure firstly personally ex.: via external control reciever what you ave you original voice. Many hams like to hear i wanna to say Contest Signals with +10-20db on 2-3Khz, that really normal for them. I am using Heal781, where Default profile correcting haracteristic to provide a flat response in output signal, i have made correction due to the my voice aspects so afterwards get reports like "You Signal fantastic , like broadcast radio but for the contest purpose" - EQ, is my recommendation since July 2013 expirience with my Flex6700.

Peter

I too have noticed some issues that I am tracking, and to Eric's point, it would seem to suggest that Regression Testing was not detailed enough. Regression testing should be a BIG part of any software beta release as you want to be sure that old stuff didn't broken by the new stuff added.

I would think that these (or some of them) tests were completed:

1. Regression Testing
2. Stress Testing
3. Fallback testing
4. Fall Forward.
5. Negative Testing.

etc..





Just my two cents!

Peter/ve3pcd

KY6LA_Howard

@Eric "I am not one to **** and moan," Really? Is that glass half empty? Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of changes, bug fixes and improvements. We should be rejoicing that only a few tiny minor bugs slip thru the Alpha testing process... Ever had a new release of windows with thousands of Alpha and beta testers no bugs slip thru? Even Apple had bugs slip thru on iOS 8.0. None of these MINOR bugs are show stoppers. Tim has listed them in the bug tracker. So they will be addressed. Suggest you have a tall cold adult beverage and start playing with all the great new toys Flex just gave us. Life will be much more fun if you look at the positives.

Sergey R5AU

i am agree, 1.4 extremely stable in compare to previous and has a lot of advantages, bugs......... i never seen in my life  SW without the bugs with such functionalities.  Windows is a very good example -  plenty patches and corrections but in sometimes with negative final for the some functionalities of the system.

IW7DMH, Enzo

I agree with you.
Version 1.4 leads user and listening experience to a higher level. It is definitely a big step forward.
We could start to assume that the software, especially the one just released, has already new bugs. Nothing strange about that, but please stop with the complaints and recriminations (expecially vs Beta or Alfa testers - I am not one of both).
The biggest innovation that I'd like to see, in the next future, is the new way to release updates as Steve said in the last Flex Insider.
This is the the real and tangible improvement and this is my wish for the whole Flex team.

Tom--W4FAS

Good Morning Eric,

Sorry you are so frustrated. I really think FRS is doing an outstanding job. I suspect you are frustrated by the process. The SSDR Program will never be perfect. The issue  of when do you stop testing and release a version is a tough one. The opinion of this group seems to be FRS got it about right with the release of 1.4. The general feeling of the group seems to be let's start enjoying 1.4 and start dreaming about 1.5 and 2.0 and.....

After some previous releases it was suggested FRS is going too fast. They need to stop all software development until all shortcomings in the current version are corrected. While it may sound tempting at times, it is usually not a viable option for a company to take.

In my opinion Gerald and his FRS team have been doing an outstanding job with the development of the Flex 6000 series. They deserve congratulations not ridicule.

Tom(W4FAS)

k3Tim

To #2 - I've tried waterfall on transmit but turned off this feature.  I don't see the point of it especially when running CW - QSK.  Being open minded (at least trying my best) can someone kindly enlighten me if I am missing something.
The current (1.4) version of auto-scale of Water Fall is really good.  On receive the display is excellent.

To #4 - I only use / need 4 sub-panels at time displayed, no-issue. 

WIth the upgrade an underpowered PC is now totally usable.

_..--
k3Tim

Bill -VA3WTB

Guys they worked on over 2000 things in this release and only 7 or 8 bugs? I bet most company's would love these sort of results.
As Gerald said, now that the heavy lifting and ground work is finished, fix updates should come faster. So relax and enjoy. And the fact that the performance is about 70% higher then it was Is amazing...

Tim - W4TME

Thanks Bill.  BTW, the bugs listed were the customer facing ones.  If we had listed everything the release notes would have become a novel.

Steve K9ZW

Methinks having such a short list of errata after a complete under-the-hood overhaul/rewrite is an exceptional achievement!  Well done FRS.

And as reaffirmed by this performance these nits will be dealt with professionally, just like the thousands FRS has dealt with since the first pre-release software my 6700 came with.

Pointing out needed repairs is what FRS expects us to do - this is the feedback cycle that has been huge in improving the radio all along. 

And let's never forget that there are real people doing their professional best at FRS receiving those reports.  If our tone and demands would feel bad to us, if we were in their shoes, then we have missed a chance to communicate better.  Basically we need to have the same sort of bedside manners we expect from FRS. 

The whole 6x000 experience is so positive I can't help keep thinking of a movie that had a line that went roughly like:

 "Good day, gentlemen. This is a pre-recorded briefing made prior to your departure and which, for security reasons of the highest importance, has been known on board during the mission only by your FlexRadio System Signature Series Flex-6x000 radio server....." or something like that, right?

73 and all the best to you,

Steve

K9ZW

Ken - NM9P

So far, with a few days' testing, I find this an amazing update that added features and corrected many, many frustrations, but which has a few bugs and a couple of added frustrations. Considering the unexpectedly large punch list, the errors are few. On balance, I think it was a Great Leap Forward which should be improved with a point update (I hope). I will be posting a more thorough review later, today hopefully.

DrTeeth

@ Tom W4FAS
"They deserve congratulations not ridicule".
There was no ridicule, just constructive criticism. There *is* a difference.

DrTeeth

Bill , I agree.

However, WizzyMotors builds a top class sports car. Great roadholding and performance, but the dashboard buzzes annoyingly. You take it back to the dealership and they say, "What are you complaining about? You have a great car! It is probably a loose ****." You will not say "okay" and wait a year until the next service (bug fix release) to get it fixed. The reputation of the car manufacturer/dealership would be dented to some degree in your eyes. You would have some choice words for those who would say you were being over fussy, I'm sure.

Rich McCabe

Loving 1.4.

My only complaints are ergonomic tweaks.  Radio works fantastic for my operating needs.

And in reality "One step forward, two steps back" really was 2000 steps forward and 5 steps back based on what has been mentioned here.

Bill -VA3WTB

I'm sorry Guy you are disappointed with Flex because 1.4 has a few flaws. I don't believe their reputation is dented at all, and I noticed the na sayers have vanished for now.

DrTeeth

I am not disappointed with Flex, like most people, myself included, they are not perfect. I chose the words in my analogy very carefully. I do find it mildly worrying that regular users find even minor and not esoteric issues so soon after release.

As far as I am concerned, their big faux-pas was the way they handled the delay in 1.4, not the delay itself. So their rep was not dented even by 0.0001%? They dropped the ball and will have learnt how to keep it in play the next time, precisely by the constructive criticism here by their supporters; of which I count myself as one.

They have a saying about the people from the North of England (from where I hail), they call a "spade a spade"; meaning we are blunt.

Wave a great weekend Bill.

73

John n0snx

  it's comical to read some of these postings....some of the same people who complained "We want it NOW" are the same ones complaining of a few bugs that we normal users were expecting... There are always bugs when dealing with software... Even the best software has a few bugs. Its like I said in an earlier post...to some people Flex is **** if they do and **** if they don't.,..,, You can't please everybody....8 or 10 bugs out of a total overhaul is outstanding... KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK FRS!!!

Tom--W4FAS

Guy,

"I seriously have to ask, what the heck were the beta testers focusing on for the last 6 months? Some of these items were picked up on by users within minutes of the release."

"We were led to believe all this time was to ensure that the release would be stable and glitch free. It seems far from it at this point."

"Oh, wait a minute, I seem to recall that they are referred to as "alpha testers" so does that mean we are the beta testers?"

I agree there is a difference between constructive criticism and ridicule; however, the above statements sound a lot more like ridicule than constructive criticism to me.

Tom  

Lee - N2LEE

I think everyone is over reacting to Eric's comments.

1. He is NOT saying that 1.4 should be perfect.

But he did point out a very valid issue and that is why were these obvious bugs not identified by the beta testers ?  Many of the issues brought up would not have been hard to find. It is not unusual to release software with a list of "known issues". I doubt anyone expected "perfect" software, but the purpose of beta testing is to help find potential issues.

The root of Eric's post was Flex should consider expanding their beta group. It was not that the improvements were not appreciated. This is a valid issue to bring up and jumping all over him or worse, drowning out his main point with nonsense cheerleading does not help Flex.

Ninety nine percent of people on the forum love their radios and want to HELP the 6000 series become the best possible radio it can be. Bringing up issues or giving blunt feedback (for the most part) is their way to help make that happen.

Most of us have faith in Flex and the platform they have released. But, repeating over and over and over what a great job they have done is not the way to make a better product. They appreciate it and know how much hard work was involved more than you do. What makes a better product is helping them find issues they are not aware of yet.

Bill -VA3WTB

The one thing that I have been wondering is how the record feature got so messed up, did no one ever check that? Oh well as Ken mentioned in his post there are a lot of great stuff that makes this radio even more wonderful.