Option to Automate the AGC-T setting

Al_NN4ZZ

Hi Howard,
Agree, I was also disappointed it was not listed on the survey since it was ( and still is) the idea here on the community with the highest number of votes ( 92 currently) and at #1 position on the idea list.  

It doesn't appear that the idea list and user votes are considered a priority any more (if they ever were).    Like a lot of ideas it has been on the list for years.  At least if it was on the survey, the newer members could consider it in their survey response. 

But maybe we'll be surprised and see it one day.....

Regards, Al / NN4ZZ  
al (at) nn4zz (dot) com
6700 Win10 SSDR V2.4.9

 

Sergey KN7K

Al,
I am not disputing that my idea is better or not, i just like it

https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/agc-t-proposal-to-flex

See the image on my post.
It would be nice if AGC-T can perform quick auto adjustment any time you switch the bands. The visual representation of such adjustment would be great.

At this point I would call AGC-T as a Manual Gain Control.
As I stated before, in some cases you assume you are in the range or forget to adjust it. I found many times during CW contest that loud station would jump to my frequency and would "****" my ears.

Will this Auto AGC-T ever happen? Who knows...

Sergey, KN7K

KC2QMA_John

My guess is now that the USA is unfortunately about to start World War 3 with Iran and Flexradio now works for Raytheon I doubt we will be seeing anything happening with Flex amateur radio for a while.

Just try to like the radio as it is today and hope we live long enough to enjoy it!

Al_NN4ZZ

Hi Sergey,
Yes, there are options to consider and I also voted for your display option / idea.  I think the automation would be something many users could benefit from.  From the new users to those that like to switch bands and modes frequently to the DXers that are interested in weak signals. 

I'm still on V2.4.9 but if they fixed the profile autosave (make it an option) and added auto AGC-T that would be more than enough for me to upgrade.  

Regards, Al / NN4ZZ  
al (at) nn4zz (dot) com
6700 Win10 SSDR V2.4.9

Sergey KN7K

Al,
I do not think Profile Autosave is a big deal - I use Stack3 and recall any mode/band/settings with 1 button. So, it is not bother me at all.

But the huge benefit (for me) in ver3 is a SmartControl Mode. It is not perfect, but it works on my Maestro and 6600. It is like traditional radio with knobs and also mouse over your monitor screen.

I guess we cannot get everything we want, hopefully Flex will rethink their priorities. May be they will make a justification for AGC-T to upgrade to ver4   ?

Sergey, KN7K

Bill -VA3WTB

John, Flex does not work for Raytheon, they are partners in this project. Both are experts in different things.
Paste your comment somewhere and keep it safe about seeing nothing from Flex for a while what ever a while means. See if your right.

KC2QMA_John

Bill, you are welcome to swap the words "For" to "With" Raytheon.
The up and coming war will keep all military contractors very busy.

I'll paste mine if you paste yours;).

John KB4DU

Since I work for the Army, I'm very familiar with the bureaucracy. Months pass between any real world event and any effect on development, and years pass before that development is employed in the field.


Lionel

I see this "idea" is on the top of the "In Review" list yet is quite old. Might Flex be more customer responsive by marking either declined or in progress?

It seems like a good enhancement, and I'd like to see it implemented in some form. My vote.

Perhaps Flex could review the "in review" list and dispose of all that will be declined, to shorten the list to facilitate user review and to realistically set customer expectations. Flex cannot possibly be "in review" of such numerous "ideas."

The idea list needs to be scrubbed.

Jim K4JAF

Flex seems to have given up the software development for the HAM market.

Jim K4JAF

WX7Y

Kenwood, Yaesu/Vertex, and ICOM would starve out of existence with out there commercial sales and products so it not just FLEX that has ties to the commercial market.

Seems like we loose track and appreciation of the cool things that are added to SmartSDR in leu of some peoples little personal issues.

People gripped at the way that saving Profiles worked so they automated it and now look what we got that I personally think is a mess, I think we would have the same thing with the AGC-T where automated.

It only takes a few seconds to click on the Speaker Icon and slide the AGC-T control over, I for one move mine back and forth all the time so MY ear can hear a certain station better and NO automatic algorithm can match the Human mind for understand something, I vote LEAVE it ALONE!

I'm sure some will have negative things to say about this but these are my opinions and sorry if you don't like it.

Neil D Friedman N3DF

Even easier to change the AGC-T setting on the “M” models—just turn the knob.

Al_NN4ZZ

Bret Wrote " People gripped at the way that saving Profiles worked so they automated it and now look what we got that I personally think is a mess, I think we would have the same thing with the AGC-T where automated."

Hi Bret,

Agree the automated profiles is not good for many of us and that is why I'm waiting for the ability to turn it off before upgrading from 2.4.10.

The Automated AGC-T request mockup keeps the manual option for just that reason. Here is the mockup below:

Regards, Al / NN4ZZ

al (at) nn4zz (dot) com

6700 Win10 SSDR V2.4.10

Al_NN4ZZ

Bret,

There is also an option in the same AGC-T automation request to display the AGC-T setting visually if desired. It can be displayed or faded. This could be very helpful whether you select to manually or automatically adjust the AGC-T. Here is the mockup:

Regards, Al / NN4ZZ

al (at) nn4zz (dot) com

6700 Win10 SSDR V2.4.10

WX7Y

Yea that would be the best way to do it BUT the "Profiles" Auto/Manual switch had a similar mockup and that has NEVER materialized.

Al_NN4ZZ

Bret wrote: "Yea that would be the best way to do it BUT the "Profiles" Auto/Manual switch had a similar mockup and that has NEVER materialized."

Hi Bret,

I agree again....although I don't remember ever seeing a mockup for the AutoProfiles feature before it was released. I think it was a surprise to many of us. But I'm still hopeful that FRS will eventually get back to making improvements on the SSDR GUI. So fingers crossed that these popular changes will eventually make it.

Regards, Al / NN4ZZ

al (at) nn4zz (dot) com

6700 Win10 SSDR V2.4.10

Ted S

Meanwhile over on the competition's forum, users suggest a new feature and the owners reply they will add it to the next beta release in a few weeks, bugs and all.

Competition will likely decide which is the best software development/support model for the Amateur market. Rigid change control with heavy regression testing and handholding tech support, Rapid development bugs and all, or "hey users we don't write software you have to write your own".

They are all options from the market leading SDR vendors and all this new technology is fabulous, maybe there is a place for all of them, time will tell... That is what makes competition so great and monopolies, well not so much...

Ted, WR4T

Patrick

I am requesting that this optimization of AGC-T be seriously considered. Please do it.

Stefan DL1IAO

Being playing with my Flex6400 for a while as a new user and having previously read this thread I decided to let some time go before commenting.

I like AGC-T for casual QSOs. However, while contesting it seems hard to find enough time to do the adjustment. The bands are packed and you need to find a clear spot to get AGC-T right.

Instead of losing precious contest time I would love to have an AUTO AGC-T function at hand even if the resulting setting will be a tradeoff.

So, if there is a ticket for this please put me on it!

73 - Stefan DL1IAO

KD0RC

Hi Stefan, I am not a big contester, but I do participate in some, especially Field Day here in the US.

I find that I don't change the AGC-T very often during a contest. I tend to set the RG gain and AGC-T just before the contest starts, then again at band changes. If the new band is too crowded, I tune to a quiet place just past the band edge, quickly set the controls, then move back into the band.

If I am operating search and pounce, I generally set the AGC-T lower at first, work the really strong stations, then adjust it normally to try to find weaker ones. I don't know how sound this procedure is, but it works for me.

My hope for this feature is not an automatic setting, but an indicator line across the spectrum display that shows the AGC-T level relative to the noise.

Al_NN4ZZ

Len Wrote " My hope for this feature is not an automatic setting, but an indicator line across the spectrum display that shows the AGC-T level relative to the noise."

Hi Len,

The request is for both the option of an automatic AGC-T setting or to select manual control. And also to provide the indicator line for either option. It also includes the the option for the indicator to fade or not be displayed. It covers all the bases.

Even in a contest when on the same band, you may see the need to adjust the AGC-T if you have a gain antenna. When your rotate the antenna the noise/signal levels can change quite a bit depending on the antenna direction. So you might like the automated option in that case.

This is a very popular idea based on the votes, and it has been on the list for several years now. Hopefully when FRS gets some time to add SSDR enhancements it will be high on the list.

Regards, Al / NN4ZZ

al (at) nn4zz (dot) com

6700 Win10 SSDR V2.4.10

KD0RC

HI Al,

Yep, I agree. Well, hopefully this is on the near horizon.

Stefan DL1IAO

Len,

Thanks for your comments. I agree that sometimes there is no need to change AGC-T very often. But as Al says, if you have a rotary antenna or several antennas at choice it may be necessary to readjust AGC-T constantly.

A good example would be running a 160m Contest (or just DXing) with several RX antennas of unequal size and signal level (e.g. a mix of active and passive RX antennas). Unless you use dedicated preamps and/or step attenuators at every single RX antenna to achieve equal output levels you will be listening with suboptimal AGC-T.

73 - Stefan DL1IAO

snet0311

Spending a lot of time in adjusting the noise reduction isn‘t my kind of having fun with my radio.

It‘s annoying after a while, even when you realize that it could be all so easy, comparing the DNR to other

competitors.

73‘, Stefan

Alan

Al and the Group

I built your auto AGC using Node-Red. I know you want it made into SmartSDR, but I have a question on methodology.

I built a slider, as you asked for, to adjust the Db above the noise floor as you suggested.

Question.....you say "Auto AGC," but.....my version is not exactly auto.

First, I must find a frequency with no signal other than noise (no signal audio) and then have my app adjust the AGC as you describe. The first step is not "auto."

What am I missing? Do you want AGC to adjust automatically for each signal? If so, how do you discern the noise floor? I do this manually by adjusting AGC Level from high to low, listening for an increase in noise with the signal audio.....but the S level is different, to start with, for each signal, so I have not made this automatic.

What am I missing?

Alan. WA9WUD

VE7ATJ_Don

Hi Alan... as I understand it, adjustment of AGC-T is something that's 'band wide' and dependent upon the current conditions. So, it's not something you should be adjusting on a signal-by-signal basis. As Stephan pointed out, once set, there is rarely any need to change the AGC-T setting for a band (and SmartSDR remembers settings on a band/mode basis) EXCEPT if you are changing antennae.

I think what people are looking for is a bit more 'intelligence' in SmartSDR to look at the band you are in, distinguish the 'noise' from the signals and then use the noise floor to set the AGC-T value appropriately. It's basically automating what we do when we look for a blank spot in the band, set the AGC to Fast, then adjust the control to the 'knee' where the noise level changes.

Al_NN4ZZ

Hi Alan and Don,

Alan, the band noise level is generally the same across the band for a given antenna but there is one other variation. With a gain antenna it can change as you rotate the antenna. Automating the AGC-T would cover that as well as the antenna change you mentioned.

Don, The noise floor level is known internally to SSDR and there was a request by Bill / K7UOP to make it available in the Flexlib but I don't know if that ever happened. It was Bills original request that spurred my idea to automate the function right in the existing user interface.

Here is a link to Bill's original idea:

https://community.flexradio.com/discussion/6388175/flexlib-agc-t-values-in-dbm

Since the noise floor information is available in SSDR it makes sense to include the user interface feature right on the existing SSDR interface where it is today. And also include the feature to add the line to show where the AGC-T level is set on the panadapter. The would benefit users that prefer to set it manually as well.

Regards, Al / NN4ZZ

al (at) nn4zz (dot) com

6600 Win10 Pro V2004 -- SSDR V3.3.33

WX7Y

We need to be careful of what we wish for we mike get something **** up as BAD as the AutoProfile Save.

I really like having control of my OWN radio and not have some Automation try to do it the way I would like it.

The ANAN Thetis has Automatic ALC and I have used it BUT for me the settings at which it sets things to just is to high and to much noise.

MY VOTE: LEAVE IT A LONE

Sergey KN7K

AGC is a basic function of the radio and it should work as advertised - AUOTMATIC Gain Control.

In fact AGC-T does not work as it AGC at all. For me, it does not matter how much I adjust it and while working hard to pull weak signal, a strong station would send his signal on the same frequency, it would hurt my ears. Did not have such issue with any modern radio I had before, mostly Yaesu and Kenwood. In fact I never had to think about it at all, you just turn it on and forget on these radios. You do not have continuously tweak it.

Al_NN4ZZ

WX7Y wrote: need to be careful of what we wish for we mike get something **** up as BAD as the AutoProfile Save.

I really like having control of my OWN radio and not have some Automation try to do it the way I would like it.

The ANAN Thetis has Automatic ALC and I have used it BUT for me the settings at which it sets things to just is to high and to much noise.

MY VOTE: LEAVE IT A LONE.

GOT IT COVERED

————————

The idea request does allow you to keep the manual operation exactly as it works today. And you can also enable the panadapter AGC-T line or not. So there is no loss of the current functioning.

Al / NN4ZZ