SmartSDR upgrade fees

Greg

I have a question regarding the upgrade subscription process outlined in Gerald's update today. Since it is no longer time based, there is no clock to start. Does this mean whatever the version is once all the advertised features and functionality is in place and working correctly then that is when things start? Limited Edition purchasers got one year with the radio and an extra year, does that translate into two major version releases AFTER all the features are in place and working? Thanks Greg AB7R

K6OZY

I would like clarification if that means the Limited Edition purchasers will get v2 and v3 with all applicable minor version updates.

Sergey R5AU

Hi Greg, could you send to me( ra3ajk@gmail.com ) Gerald's update, i never recieved from FRS even as a Limited Edition purchaser, may be i 'm in black list ?

Tim - W4TME

LE customers who did *not* purchase an additional year will get SmartSDR v2.0 by default. If you purchased 1 additional year of software maintenance, you will get SmartSDR v3.0

Greg

Will the software remain Ver. 1.x.x throughout the implementation of all the advertised features? I am not sure this is very ethical to change this policy after a purchase has been made. I was under the understanding that the counter for the radio's included 1 year starts after all features from the product release brochure are in place. Assuming that would start ~Jul2014...the radio's update year would carry to Jul2015. Limited Edition adopters additional year would carry to Jul2016. Now you are saying, if I understand correctly, LE adopters would get Ver. 2.0 at the most, regardless of when that comes out? 73 Greg

Ernest - W4EG

That's what I understood also. Some how it appears that we missed something between the original offer and the one that Tim is talking about. I think this needs to be clarify. I'll dig in my folder and see what I find or if you have it handy, please post it. Thanks

Greg

I will look this evening. I am at work and don't have access right now.

Ernest - W4EG

I found a letter that Gerald wrote on 5/22/12 and the subject was "Which one do I want" "Let me also make clear that every FLEX-6000 series radio comes with the first year of software upgrades included AND those who pre-order the Limited Edition version get 1 additional year free. Beyond that time, each person can make their own decision if they want purchase the latest upgrades available thereafter. If what you have at that time is all you need or want, you won't have to pay a dime. If you see value in the new upgrades or any add on applications, you can make a purchase decision at that time. Note that there will be application specific software that may apply to only a smaller subset of the amateur and/or commercial community that will have its own separate pricing model." The letter goes on to further details but I think this is very clear. at least for me.

ehaskell

Greg, it doesn't seem ethical to me for you to questions Gerald's ethics before he has even responded to the questions asked here and on other Forums. I've dealt with Gerald for nearly a decade and he has proven again and again to be what Texans call a straight shooter. I have no doubt that his analysis that lead to this change yields a better deal for LE customers than the original one did. Lighten up. 73 Ed, W1PN

Greg

Right. But there was follow-on clarification that the first year would not start until all the advertised features were implemented....sometime around Jul-Oct 2014.

Greg

You are probably right Ed. I just don't like having things changed out of the blue like that. However I did also read from the website Smart SDR section that the purchaser always has the option to get support based on what was in place at the time of purchase. If that is true I guess there really is no issue.

Dave - WB5NHL

Greg -- " I just don't like having things changed out of the blue like that. " Don't forget this wasn't a unilateral Flex decision but rather driven by International laws/policies. If Flex wants to supply radios internationally they needed to change their approach or have separate policies (not realistic). I actually think in the long term a non-time based approach is better for us. Once complete (certainly in the 2.0 era), a SmartSDR user can make a choice whether and when to upgrade. BTW, I'm using Windows 7

Ernest - W4EG

This was not questioning Gerald's ethic or integrity. I believe that Greg was making a point regarding how the upgrades process fee policy applied: As it was out line on this month "The Flex Insider" newsletter. Plus, Tim's comment confused the issue by telling the LE customers that we needed to purchase an additional year to receive SmartSDR beyond v2.0. We are clarifying a point that was made during the early days of the release of the product. I put my full trust in the Company and their dedicated employees. Otherwise, I would not have placed my deposit for a radio that I had not seen. As a loyal customer that has owned all the Flex radios since the F1K through the F6.7K. Thank you Flex's for such a great product.

K6OZY

Well, I didn't purchase an additional year, because the LE users were to receive an additional one for free for a total of two. Using the old model and projected activation date, our timer was going to kick in at the end of the delivery list for v1. This was understood to be around late 2014. That would have given us coverage to the end of 2016. It would be impossible to predict if we would see v2 and v3 by the end of 2016, so comparing this to the new setup would be nearly impossible. But if we are converting "years" into "versions", then I would think the LE owners would get v2 and v3. Does this make sense?

Greg

That is exactly how I understood things and why I posted the questions/comments. Greg

Gerald-K5SDR

The release based model is actually more beneficial to you. In a time based model, there is no assurance that a new major release (e.g. v2.0, v3.0 etc.) will come out within any given time period. The number of v1.x point releases before we release a v2.0 is as yet undetermined. Under a time based model, there is no assurance that a Limited Edition customer will receive a v2.0 release within a two year period. In the release based model, a Limited Edition customer is guaranteed to receive v2.0, whenever it comes out even if that is more than two years from the release of v1.4; SmartSDR v1.4, per our published roadmap is what we consider to be PowerSDR equivalency milestone. Standard edition customers will get all point releases for version v1.0 for as many as are released, even beyond a year. Our best estimation is that the time between major releases will be on the order of 12-18 months. Between major releases, there will be a number of point releases that include new features and performance enhancements. On a final note, we are the only company I know of in amateur radio that has an internal team of software engineers dedicated to providing regular feature and performance enhancements to existing radios. That means that the radio you own today will keep getting better and better and better (and better).

Greg

Thank you for the additional clarification Gerald. Explained that way in the Insider would have had a much different impact I think. The software distribution is a key part of the radio and having that seemingly changed on you without notice or options or how this benefits the end user was initially disconcerting. 73 Greg

Al_NN4ZZ

Greg, I opted into the preview program last November 2012 and got a "1 year" support extension on my invoice. I didnt get in in time for the LE. But using the same logic as noted above I was expecting to get 1.x and 2.x. I'm not so sure now. Regards, Al /NN4ZZ

Greg

I would email Matt and ask him to verify it for you. I was not aware of any additional support for preview participation, only for LE.

Al_NN4ZZ

Greg, From above....I replied here to include a snippet from my invoice. Greg, I opted into the preview program last November 2012 and got a "1 year" support extension on my invoice. I didn't get in in time for the LE. But using the same logic as noted above I was expecting to get 1.x and 2.x. I'm not so sure now. Regards, Al /NN4ZZ I'll email Matt to get clarification...

K6OZY

Thanks for the clarification. This helps me explain to others. As far as I'm concerned, the value of being able to make my radio grow for so many years and feel fresh is worth far more than what Flex charges. In my Astrophotography hobby, subscription based models are the norm for all hardware and software support. This allows the vendor to be more honest. They don't have to embed predicted future expenses in a bloated hardware cost. This also prevents a company from having "planned hardware obsolescence" because if they need more money, they need to release new hardware again. I think FRS's method is a bargain, and like Gerald said, there is NO other ham company that does this. Thank you, FRS, and have a Merry Christmas. You sure have made ours much better!

Mark - NU6X

Excellent....Thanks Gerald!! I think the new "Release based model" makes good sense and benefits all customers. As a Limited Edition customer(5/2012), I am very happy that it also includes V2.0, especially when you consider that it will include point releases that could extend well past the 2 year period. Mark, NU6X Sedona, AZ

Gerald-K5SDR

Al, your FlexAdvantage gets converted to a credit for v2.0.

DonS

So if you got in on the LE and also on the the preview program does that mean you would get credit through v3.0? Was the preview program open to a limited group or was it open to everyone? I certainly don't recall seeing anything about the preview program

Sergey R5AU

Gerald, i purchased LE 6700 via reseller but not recieved confirmation with credit for 2.0 (as was announced second year) , can FRS confirm it for me ? I guess some one have same question.

Al_NN4ZZ

Gerald, Thanks for the confirmation. I'm looking forward to the updates and appreciate the hard work by everyone. Regards, Al / NN4ZZ

Ken - NM9P

It has been so long, and I have been having so much fun, that I forget what I ordered. I probably ordered a year extra just to cut the hassle of ordering again so soon ... My invoice is like Al's except that it has 2 Flex Advantage's and one Credited back. I was part of the "second wave" preview group. ... Does that mean I am good for V 3.0? Or just V 2.0? I also think it makes good sense to move to the version-based fees rather than a time-based fee. As long as everyone understands how it works. (I would hate to miss out on a major update just because a few bugs delayed its release past the deadline!) I am confident that everyone will get a fair shake in the sorting-out.

Ken - NM9P

Another question, just to help clarify how this will work.... If a person hasn't paid the fee for V 2.0 and skips it, then sees a lot of desirable features when V 3.0 is released, do they have to pay only for V 3.0? Or would they have to pay for both updates? (I would assume it would be like upgrading from Win XP to Win 8.1, with a single update fee ... perhaps with an incentive for those who bought in to V 2.90 late in the game right before V 3.0 came out?)

Tim - W4TME

Al. Your invoice above shows that your FLEX-6700 purchase came with the current version of software (line item 2) and since each radio sold this cost is included in the price, it was discounted (line item 3). If you had purchased an LE (limited edition) radio that came with an extra major version of software (v2.x) line item 2 would have a quantity of 2 and line item 3 would have a quantity of 2. The line item 2 description should not have had the text "renewal" on it which is causing the confusion. This situation has been corrected.

Ed, K0KC

Note Greg's comment from the recent "Flex Insider": We've also disconnected the time-based SUPPORT portion from the software license. This is actually a change but is required because of certain International support laws and practices. The message to you our valued customer is that we will support your FLEX-6000 radios through all of our in-person, online, and distributor channels just like we do today with our other products. (Note the 2 year manufacturing warranty period remains unchanged.) If I understood the previous model, support for v 1.x would have ended when 2.x was released so this is a very important additional benefit to you. Ed, K0KC

Gerald-K5SDR

I am assuming that you did not get in on the Limited Edition. That means you get v1.0 and all point releases for version 1 regardless of the time period over which they are delivered. Each FlexAdvantage order gets converted into an equivalent number of upgrade credits that can be used on any major release. For example you could choose to skip v2.0 and apply a credit to 3.0. This also answers your next post below. Your example of upgrading from XP to Win 8.1 is a correct analogy.