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Panadapter Magnifier to aid Tuning

W8SJV
W8SJV Member
edited June 2020 in New Ideas
Accurate tuning with a mouse is sometimes difficult when a wide spectrum is displayed. A panadapter magnifier that tracks a slice might help. The area immediately surrounding the slice would be expanded to show the signal more clearly as in the attached image. The magnified area is indicated by the colored window surrounding the magnified signal. Its sort of a slice in a magnifier slice... The magnifier could be turned on/off by right clicking on the slice, or by hovering over the slice like the 5000's tracking filters work. Yet another way to implement this tuning aid might be to create a second tracking slice in a second panadapter. The display could then be adjusted or fine tuned at will.
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  • Dave - WB5NHL
    Dave - WB5NHL Member ✭✭
    edited June 2020
    I like the magnifier idea. This would also be a help when operating slit and trying to find a gap in the pileup. I like the right click since right clicking on the slice currently doesn't do anything.
  • K2CM
    K2CM Member ✭✭
    edited September 2019
    Drag the frequency scale at the bottom, to the right. It will expand the panadapter scale.
  • Dave - WB5NHL
    Dave - WB5NHL Member ✭✭
    edited December 2014
    Yes, but the idea of the magnifier is not to expand the entire scale but rather just the small section around the slice on a temporary basis while still keeping the intended view for the entire screen
  • Ken - NM9P
    Ken - NM9P Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    Interesting idea... Right click opens up a sub-window with the panadapter width dependent upon mode, (parameters adjustable, too) perhaps 5 khz for ssb, and 1 or 2 khz for CW/Digi, click tune or drag within the sub-window and right click to close the sub window again. It could pretty slick!
  • James Nelson
    James Nelson Member ✭✭
    edited June 2017
    The magnifier is critical for precise tuning to support us tablet operator's that use finger and or stylus which are our "virtual knobs" to speak rather than dealing with clunky 90's era mouse age technology. Win8 pro is built for touch pad style operations so I assumed all along this design criteria would be part of the parcel. NOTE I HAVE SUGGESTED A VIRTUAL VFO So far on the touch tablet all controls have been great except 1hz tune so then I have to plug in mouse thats a nuisance. Thats OK maybe for desktop but not so for all touch operation.
  • Greg
    Greg Member ✭✭
    edited June 2020
    This is a slick idea!
  • WA6FXT Mike
    WA6FXT Mike Member ✭✭
    edited September 2016
    Adjustable would be best, IMHO and mode independent.
  • Bob G   W1GLV
    Bob G W1GLV Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    i agree
  • John Molenda
    John Molenda Member
    edited March 2014
    Really a Great Idea I am all for it ! John molenda kb2huk
  • Ernest - W4EG
    Ernest - W4EG Member ✭✭
    edited January 2015
    You can do that now, without the magnifier idea.
  • WA6FXT Mike
    WA6FXT Mike Member ✭✭
    edited September 2016
    Ernest, there isn't enough zoom to properly see a 50 Hz bandwidth. The magnifier would allow much finer adjustment. It will be needed when TNF is released. That's what I'm hoping to see.
  • philip.theis
    philip.theis Member
    edited December 2014
    I believe we'll see much greater zoom in the future. It is widely desired by the cw contesting community.
  • Steve-N5AC
    Steve-N5AC Community Manager admin
    edited July 2018
    We're planning another couple of levels of zoom in the panadapter -- will this achieve the desired result?
  • Ned K1NJ
    Ned K1NJ Member ✭✭
    edited February 2017
         It very well might.  The resulting feedback will help determine further action.
    People will probably want an adjustable zoom level.

    Ned,  K1NJ
  • ai6re
    ai6re Member ✭✭
    edited December 2014

    I believe this would help a lot as I spend a lot of time Zooming in and out. This is an excellent idea. I also agree with the right click to enable or disable the feature.
  • W8SJV
    W8SJV Member
    edited May 2014

    Steve,

    I think that would work as long as the expanded zoom area tracks the slice frequency.  That is, no other keystrokes, other than dragging the slice, would be necessary to view the zoomed slice.

    I suspect, for Phone, a 10 KHz wide zoom would work well.  On CW it would be much narrower, say about 1KHz.

    Thanks for all the GREAT new software!

    John - W8SJV

  • Brian Morgan VK7RR
    Brian Morgan VK7RR Member ✭✭
    edited December 2018
    Steve, I don't think extended zoom would help as much as the magnifier option. We have just had a weekend of massive openings across the Pacific on 6 metres where many CW stations were operating less than 100hz apart (they could not hear each other). Tuning them was very difficult at times. I listen to CW and decode it in my head, rather than relying on software so quick and precise tuning is important in those circumstances. A vote for a magnifier function.
  • Charles - K5UA
    Charles - K5UA Member ✭✭
    edited March 2015
    Steve, In PSDR we could get the panadapter zoom down to about 4 khz (+- 2 khz from center). That was pretty nice, although I'd like to see +- 1 khz for the precise tuning necessary in contest operations with 50 hz filters. I just don't think the magnifier concept is a good concept. If a magnifier is implemented, please make it possible to toggle it OFF. I do like the idea of a second panadapter in a higher zoom mode that tracks the wider view panadapter above it. This would give the big picture and the small picture together.
  • James Nelson
    James Nelson Member ✭✭
    edited June 2017
    We still need a "Bobs Knob" answer for this fine tune issue. For us tablet / stylus guys its a must. Even a third party add on would be fine. I thought and hoped when the Woodbox S meter appeared a modified "Bobs Knob" would soon make a debut but still hanging in for one. Hardware knobs are history now with virtuals on the scene ! C'mon Flex, this is an important enhancement guys ! Get with the "in crowd" and go virtual dudes !
  • Ned K1NJ
    Ned K1NJ Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016

        Lots of good ideas here.  I also remember the zoom when the PSDR notch
    filter was applied.  You could bring it up, tune, and make it go away.  A second
    tracking panadapter with a settable zoom would be neat, if doing it in the same
    slice/display became awkward.



  • Bill N5TU
    Bill N5TU Member ✭✭
    edited April 2016
    Yes, more levels of zoom in would be great.  It is especially helpful when trying to break through one of the insane pileups.  Sometimes, one can sneak into a tiny hole and get through.  This is not possible with the present resolution.
  • Steve-N5AC
    Steve-N5AC Community Manager admin
    edited June 2017
    OK we've implemented the extra zoom -- I'd like to know if this satisfies this request.  This "to do" item is not terribly easy and we'd rather do other things if the extra zoom satisfies the request.
  • WA6FXT Mike
    WA6FXT Mike Member ✭✭
    edited September 2016
    Steve, I haven't had chance to try and **** a grungy signal, like the one Greg demo'd; but, in the short term, the zoom looks pretty good, on the signals I've tried. BTW - THANKS!! For bringing the TNF out, so soon? You people are AWESOME. Mike
  • W8SJV
    W8SJV Member
    edited May 2014

    First, let me say that the latest software release is really awesome!  I love the waterfall and the extra zoom! Your hard work shows.  Thanks!!!

    About this magnifier idea:  The new zoom  helps, but is not quite the issue I was trying to address in the original idea..

    The display problem shows up when you zoom out to several MHz (or a whole band) and the receive bandpass window gets really narrow. If you zoom out far enough the receive window turns into a single line.   That's when you'd like to be able to see and fine tune that signal.  

    If that's really difficult to code due to a mixed frequency resolution display, then an alternative of just starting a tracking slice in a second panadapter might be easier and more flexible. The second tracking panadapter would be locked to its host and only be allowed one slice.   As either slice is tuned, the other would track.

    Hope that make sense, it's really hard to describe and easy to demonstrate.


  • James Nelson
    James Nelson Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    Its certainly a help in the zoomed in position, some may have hoped for a magnifying glass GUI that shows a particular area when hovering at a similar full zoom level so you dont expand the whole band. My work around is have the slice on top set the whole band the the working slice on the new full zoom. Regardless well done guys ! I just hoping for a virtual knob / flex control to get rid of these vermin mice.... LOL
  • Al_NN4ZZ
    Al_NN4ZZ Loganville GAMember ✭✭✭
    edited March 2017
    John,
    I was thinking the same thing -- locking two slices in two panadapters might be easier and work just as well.   I made a mockup but wanted to wait until seeing more feedback on the original idea before posting it.  

    See if the picture below describes what you were thinking.   In the example the panadapter on the bottom displays most of the 40M CW band.  The upper panadapter shows a magnified section.  The upper slice A would stay centered in the panadapter.  The slice in the lower panadapter would move normally.  The slices are locked and tuning either one would move the the other.  


    Regards, Al / NN4ZZ  
    al (at) nn4zz (dot) com



    CLICK to enlarge.....



  • Steve-N5AC
    Steve-N5AC Community Manager admin
    edited June 2017
    Early on we considered doing something we called a ghost slice. The concept was this: you would have two panadapters that showed the same spectrum area, but one was zoomed out and one in. For example you might be showing all of the 40m CW band in one panadapter and a small area where you are searching and pouncing in the other. As you tuned in the zoomed area, a replica of your slice that looks different, the ghost slice, would be shown in the zoomed out panadapter to let you know where in the band you are and where other signals are. We abandoned this because we had lots of moving pieces at the time and we were concerned that it was going to be information overload. This idea still feels like a good one to me, but these kinds of things are very operator specific.
  • Al_NN4ZZ
    Al_NN4ZZ Loganville GAMember ✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    Steve,
    Sounds good and close to what I mocked up.   It will be interesting to see what others think.

    BTW - Looking forward to the next road map update to see what other new things you have planned.  

    Regards, Al / NN4ZZ  
    al (at) nn4zz (dot) com
        
  • W8SJV
    W8SJV Member
    edited May 2014
    Al, that's exactly what I was trying to describe. Good visual.

    Regards,
    John
  • W8SJV
    W8SJV Member
    edited May 2014
    Steve,

    I think that would be very useful in several ways:

       1 - From the perspective of seeing what part of the band you're in.
       2 - Searching within a band to see the detail ( e.g. determine digital modes etc.)

    I am also wondering if "two panadapter tracking" could be implemented externally using CAT or some other means?

    Regards,
    John
       

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