No activity on spectrum or waterfall upon restart V2

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  • Updated 8 months ago
I have noticed a glitch.  On a local LAN Flex 6500 running V2.  Sometimes when shutting down the software and restarting it there is no activity on the spectrum or waterfall but the S meter is showing signal and the audio is coming out of the speakers.  I have seen this a few times so far today and will continue to see if it has a common cause to report.
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John - K3MA

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Posted 1 year ago

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KENT HUFFORD

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I have the same issue with my Maestro. No spectrum or waterfall display. But I can hear and transmit, change freqs, ATU.
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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John - Maestro or SmartSDR for WIndows?
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KENT HUFFORD

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The Smartlink Network Test shows GREEN. I just went to McDonald's and my laptop found my 6500 easy, connected easy. BUT, no spectrum or waterfall. Audio good, freq display ok, changes bands, ATU works. Came home. Connected my home PC to the 6500, full display and waterfall. Something not quite right. 
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Chris Hillier

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Eventually I'm sure they will. But for a new potential customer like me it's not a good first impression.
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Peter K1PGV, Elmer

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@Chris Hillier: That's understandable. Just please keep in mind that real-time streaming across the WAN becomes a *very* difficult problem, once "it works almost all the time for about 90% of the people."  There are countless practical issues that need to be dealt with, and those can only be discovered and dealt with in actual use.  This is the very first release of this product, and such things are bound to crop up.

Note that streaming with NetFlix (for one example) is a *far* simpler problem than implementing SmartLink. It's unfortunate that you happen to be one of the folks who are experiencing one of the issues.

That there are some issues showing up here and there speaks to the difficulty of the problem, not to any deficiency in the engineering team.

Peter
K1PGV
(a network protocol architect in a former life, and implementer of some non-Flex related pseduo-real-time streaming code)
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Ken - NM9P, Elmer

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Peter, that sounds like tech-speak for "streaming video game designer" or "video conferencing system specialist."
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Ken - NM9P, Elmer

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I understand your frustration, Chris. Even more frustrating is that by all initial measures you are WAY above minimum specs for system needs. So your situation is not typical by any means. It *should* be working with plenty of room to spare.

There is a wrench in the works somewhere in your network, obviously. Purely guessing here, to kill time while the experts look into it......perhaps some obscure networking parameter configured on one end or the other of your network connection (router or firewall settings.). Or perhaps even CAT5/6 patch cable problems. Or something the internet provider on either end of the connection is doing. Or some strange deal in the handoff between one provider and the other as it crosses the border?
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Peter K1PGV, Elmer

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>that sounds like tech-speak for

Yeah... no.  Nothing nearly so elegant or interesting, I'm afraid.

Several years back, I wrote a program called ScannerCast that streams "live" scanner audio over the Internet from user PCs to the Radio Reference web site. I learned a lot about Internet streaming on that project.. which was definitely only pseudo-real-time as it buffered several seconds of audio before transmission.

Peter
K1PGV
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John - K3MA

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Tim - SmartSDR for Windows.
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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Try cold booting the radio (power down, remove power for several seconds, replace power and boot it up)
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John - K3MA

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Tim, cold boot does not seem to fix the issue from occuring again.  It seems to happen if I use SmartLink to log into a friends account from my LAN and access one of his Flex radios over the internet and then come back to access my local Flex while still logged in to his SmartLink account.  Or if I have logged into the friends SmartLink account, Log out of his SmartLink account and then Log into my SmartLink account and try to access my local Flex.

IF I reboot the local PC or my Flex 6500 and then restart SmartLink it seems to work again.
(Edited)
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John - K3MA

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Kent, your picture of the screen looks exactly like mine except I am using SmartSDR on a windows computer.  I even have the exact same black box in a portion of the waterfall.  Dave, in my case I am connected to the Flex 6500 over the local LAN and it does the same as in Kent's pictures.
(Edited)
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KENT HUFFORD

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uPNP is working
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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Kent - this is a SmartLink connected Maestro that is showing the problem.  it isn't on the local LAN with the radio.  The problem is with the Internet provider that is providing the Internet access.  I suspect they are blocking large packets as they are interpreting them as streaming data.  The panadapter display is contained in these large packets.
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Eric - KE5DTO, Official Rep

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If I read the description correctly, a SmartLink connection is not going to work properly when the public IP of both the radio and the client are the same (and I think that is what is being described here).
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Russ GUIDRY SR

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I have Time Warner now Spectrum and do not see waterfall on local PC with my 6600 at Remote site on Charter network. MTU is set to 1500 and not blocking fragmented packets. I can see same on IPhone if on WiFi off the Canle router but looks fine if go to Verizon over the air data and turn off WI-FI.
Call in tomorrow to see if blocking by waterfall traffic. Display is same as others here.
73, Russ K5OA
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KENT HUFFORD

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Reboot does not help me either. So, there are at least 2 of us with the same issue...
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John - K3MA

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Tim, no the local Flex 6500 is not showing SmartLink as the connection.  However other Flex radios that are Smartlink connections are available and show on the SmartSDR screen.  The same problem happen regardless if I am logged into another stations SmartLink account or my own SmartLink account.  Because I am working on the computer that is on my local LAN along with my Flex 6500 the local (non-SmartLink) Flex 6500 shows as available.  It is when I launch this local Flex 6500 that I get the issue.

If you wish me to demo to you via Teamviewer I can do so.  Give me your direct line # and I will call you.
(Edited)
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David Decoons wo2x, Elmer

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I wonder if one of your routers have Jumbo Frames enabled. One of the other people in this thread checked his router at radio end and found it enabled. He disabled it and will be testing today to see if it helps.

Just trying to think outside the. Oz.

Dave wo2x
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Peter K1PGV, Elmer

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>I wonder if one of your routers have Jumbo Frames enabled

IF the radio generates JumboGrams (we don't know if it does, I actually doubt it) then having a router on the LAN that handles these without fragmentation would only be a good thing, wouldn't it?

Peter
K1PGV
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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Jumbo frames are turned off.
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Ken - NM9P, Elmer

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I have had "permit jumbo frames? Both on and off on my router and it didn't seem to make a difference at my location. But I have kept it turned off mostly for the past six months.

I tested again a few hours ago and it still doesn't make any difference here that I have noticed. Perhaps the router and modem have different settings?

Anyway, it is back off again for good.
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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The radio does not use jumbo frames.
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Bob W4PG

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I am having the same issue.  Loaded V2 on my work computer and connect to my 6700 at home, no problem. All was working well.  I closed out SmartSDR to do some other work, came back and reloaded and NO spectrum display or waterfall.  Audio was fine.  I could transmit no problem. 

I notice that DAX is NOT streaming the audio. I have channel 2 selected on the Slice for DAX but nothing streaming.  I've logged out of Smart CAT and logged back in and it seems connected, but DAX still shows nothing streaming.  Going to to play with it some more and see.  Will try resetting the hardware at home when I get back and maybe try it again. 

..............Bob W4PG
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Bob W4PG

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What does this mean (from my router log):

Jul 28 15:28:59 Whole System ACK Flood Attack from WAN Rule:Default deny<br>

D-Link router 3 or 4 years old.
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David Decoons wo2x, Elmer

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Ken. I was grasping at straws since some people are having issues with the UDP packets and potentially due to the size of the packets.

Dave wo2x
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Sam Leach

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Problem resolved on our circuit ... our fix may help others

In an early post to this thread, Tim mentioned fragmentation  ... that was the answer for me and VO1IDX.  My cable modem firewall had an option to block fragmented packets.  I unchecked it and the panafall works fine in Newfoundland.  We re-enabled the blocking feature and the panafall goes away.  So, you need to be allowing fragmented packets through any firewall involved.

73

Sam K3KLC
and
Chris VO1IDX
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Ken - NM9P, Elmer

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WOW...Nice catch!  

The fun starts now!

Enjoy...

Ken - NM9P
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Peter K1PGV, Elmer

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Excellent find. Good thinking!  BRAVO!  Yay!  Congratulations!!

This WILL help MANY people.

>My cable modem firewall had an option to block fragmented packets

There are third-party firewall/AV products that also block fragmented packets... so knowing that you must DISable this blocking will be very helpful to folks going forward.

I very pleased to hear you found the solution.

(Having SAID that, it would be nice if the MTU was discovered by SmartLink and this was not necessary... but, maybe that will happen in some future release).

Peter
K1PGV
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Jim KJ7S

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Maybe Tim could comment on the firewall thing as well. I wondering if by chance it's the size of the packets formed, in that the size is 1518  vs the max packet size is at 1500? therefore the packet is fragmanted and the firewall is stopping it...until it is changed.
(Edited)
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Bob W4PG

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I just looked at my router and the maximum MTU I can set is 1500.  Me-thinks I need to upgrade as this router is several years old!! :-)
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Peter K1PGV, Elmer

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1500 is perfectly fine. No need to upgrade because of that.

Peter
K1PGV
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Bob W4PG

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Thanks, Peter.  I don't know much about packet size but figured that might be an issue.  The D-Link router I have at work does not have an option for accepting fragmented packets.  My home router (Arris) does.  So I'm guessing there is some setting in the D-Link that does something similar but not sure what that would be. As I mentioned, the D-Link router I'm using is several years old. 
  
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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I suspect the "malformed" VITA-49 packet was one of the smaller fragments that got through.
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David Decoons wo2x, Elmer

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Tim, if jumbo frames were enabled in the router but the radio and PC were not set to use jumbo frames, would this cause issues? Also if the router and PC support jumbo frames but the radio doesn't would that be an issue?

I never have jumbo frames enabled on any of my networking equipment but figures I'd ask so I understand if it would affect other users who may have it enabled in the router..

73
Dave wo2x
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Hank Wolfla

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My system was working great.  When I tried to log in I had no audio or display on the spectrum.  The rig changes freq, but no audio or spectrum.  Any suggestions.  Have tried rebooting the computer, and reinstalling the software on the client computer, still no luck.  Nothing has changed on my network and I have not done anything to the client computer.  Thanks for any input  Hank K9LZJ
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Russ GUIDRY SR

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I worked the issue yesterday and found three units running Smartlink did not display the waterfall but all else worked fine. Expected the ISP blocking some packets, At first light today, all three units are ok and displaying the waterfall without a change in router setting or ISP! SmartLink issue?

Thanks, Russ K5OA
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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Count yourself lucky and be thankful.  I suspect your ISP did something overnight or something rebooted and all is well in Beantown again.