My 6300 seem off Freq.

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Though I have had my 6300 (new) for a few months I have not really been using it much but have just noticed that it seem off frequency on receive when comparing it side-by-side to my KX3, and just  today I was told that my transmit was off Freq. I hope it's just a setting that I have to correct rather that a problem with the radio.

Any ideas ?

Peter - ve3pcd
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Peter

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Posted 4 years ago

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Jay / NO5J

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Calibrate it from WWV, look in the manual and on the setup form. Section 27.10 page 104.

73, Jay - NO5J
(Edited)
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Peter

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Thanks Jay for the suggestion but I am wondering as brand new radio why would that be required!

Truth is I would rather not have to be playing around with making significant adjustments to a new radio but will see.

73
Peter
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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Peter - it isn't a "significant" adjustment.  There are several factors that will cause the XO to drift slightly and it will occasionally need a minor re-calibration "touch up".  This is why we added the automated feature to do so.
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Peter

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Hi Tim,

 I did did what Jay NO5J suggested RE:  Section 27.10 page 104 of the manual by going to WWV Freq. 15.000MHZ and pressing "start" on the Receiver tab form Radio setup. My suggestion would be to have a specific example in the manual to do things like this so there is not mis-understanding, some of us are more technical than others.

73 -Peter/ve3pcd
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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Understood.  I'll see about updating the hardware manual.
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Peter

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Thanks Tim, Btw did I do it correctly ? i.e. just select the wwv fREQ. and press start ?
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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Yes.  The stronger the source signal (WWV or CHU) the better the lock due to reduced signal fading.
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Peter

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btw Jay, what manual are you referring to, as I can't find a manual just a small setup document ?
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W7NGA

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sorry ... I have to laugh. I was told recently on 17-meters that I was 6hz off frequency. I was using my Flex 6300 but most of my AM work is with my venerable Collins 32V3 .. and this struck my funny-bone. Does anyone else remember those days on AM, so long ago, where if you were all within 1khz it was a good day? 73's ... dan W7NGA
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George Molnar, KF2T, Elmer

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6 Hz??!! Like anyone really can measure that in a casual environment. Haters gonna hate, I guess...
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George Molnar, KF2T, Elmer

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From SSDR: Settings > Radio Setup > Receive

What do you read when zero beat to WWV? Also, double check that XIT and RIT (yeah, it's bitten me). 
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Jay / NO5J

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There's a download for the manual, on the Main Flexradio site under Support/Downloads.
look for SmartSDR for Windows Software User's Guide in the SmartSDR Documentation Folder. The oscillator frequency shifts a bit due to temp changes. Might not have been spot on to start with. It will be the second you set the band and click the start button.
They save tree's by using an updateable PDF for the manual.
Sorry for the slow response RF keyboard i was using lost shift and o keys. 
73, Jay - NO5J
(Edited)
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Peter

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Thanks all for the feedback, now I don't want to sound like I just landed here but I've looked on the support/download site under 6000 series folders and I don't see what would be a full manual. Also, my  RIT/XIT are at zero.
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Jay / NO5J

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Click the link I edited in.

73 Jay
(Edited)
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Peter

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I have found the manual!!
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Jay / NO5J

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You never have to open the radio there aren't any knobs in there either.
Might even need a special screwdriver to get it open. I've never looked.
Hopefully the section and page number didn't change

73 Jay
(Edited)
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Ken - NM9P, Elmer

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My 6500 needed a small torx bit to open up when I needed to clean some gunk from a fan bearing to stop a "cricket" squeak.  (upon recommendation from Tim)  It sure is pretty in there, with a nicely engineered board and layout.  But I wouldn't recommend messing around in it!  

Ken - NM9P
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Jay / NO5J

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Ok I need a keyboard or at least some batteries for the wireless keyboard.
Why am I always out of AAA?
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Jay / NO5J

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Forget the Wireless I found the AT/PS2 adapter for my Model M IBM.
The finest Boatanchor in the shack.
(Edited)
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Peter

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Jay, I found the section in the manual and set the Freq. offset at the WWV Freq. just have to compare it with my KX3 to see if anything has changed.
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George Molnar, KF2T, Elmer

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Good luck! Don't forget the KX3 could be "Off." Lacking an up-to-date certified standard, it's tricky when you pick anything else as "right."
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Jay / NO5J

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My 5000a once calibrated in the same way, would stay that way, I'm not sure it ever needed to be recalibrated. I usually recalibrated it anyway when I reinstalled or upgraded PowerSDR, My 6500 has the GPSDO in it so I don't have to, anymore. But my SDR1000 and Flex5000A still do, The SDR1000 has to have the Sound card and PA calibrated too. If I'd ever remember to export the settings database I probably wouldn't need to, but It's a habit now.  The RagChew Flexer's I hang out with would let me know If I was off, with the older rigs, If I'm off it's usually the RIT/XIT or I bumped the FlexControl. most of the Boat Anchor folks insist there calibrated perfectly too. Sometime the Flex folks mess with them by sliding up 300hz and insisting they're the one's off frequency. they disappear for a minute, when they come back claiming they're dead on we shift back just to make them feel special. Some claim that WWV drifts off frequency all the time and it don't do any good to calibrate to it. If they whine about the abuse, we tell them They need to fix there mic audio.first its muffled, then it's got RF, then it sounds pinched, If they run Kenwoods we tell them they sound like they're on an Icom. If they're on a Yaesu we congratulate them for getting the Swan back on the air. Then we go work digital. All in good fun. That why they have knobs isn't it?
73, Jay - NO5J
(Edited)
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Doug K0DV

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I too have had reports of being 50 Hz off on 20 meters. I have tried the calibration using the set-up Receive tab and WWV at 10 MHz.  How do I know that the radio has zero-beated WWV?

With the current default calibration, as shown on the receive tab, when I tune in SSB there are no sidetone beats, meaning that I am pretty darn close. However, when I try to calibrate and I type in "10" for the Cal Frequency in MHz and have WWV zero-beated using CW mode, it zero beats at 10.000.260 MHz, so it appears to be 260 Hz off. Then if I leave the frequency there where it appears to zero-beat and then press Start, the Offset comes up -1370.  If I go back to a frequency on 20 meters, the stations are all off, so I don't think the calibration worked.   Does anyone have a step by step procedure for calibration (that works) using WWV as the calibration source? I must be doing something wrong.
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Jay / NO5J

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Doug 
Not wrong.
Your only doing things that are unneccesary.
1. Set the WWV frequency your tuned to and want to calibrate against in the dialog.
2. Click the start button.
Your done.
SmartSDR will zero beat and calibrate to that WWV frequency Automatically.
You dont have to zero beat anything manually. 
The offset  that it responds with is in ppb of 1hz. 
In other words -1370 means your now calibrated to within 1370 billionths of 1Hz.
In order to verify this, I had to turn off/uninstall the GPSDO in my 6500, the radio was still locked and the response I got was 0 ppb. A little closer than yours. 
Without the GPSDO you will always be some fraction of 1Hz off. 
With -1370ppb yours is 99.99999863% accurate. Which I'd say was pretty good. SmartSDR can zero beat better than you can by ear.  

73, Jay - NO5J
(Edited)
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Doug K0DV

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Jay, thanks very much for your response.  Well, the process seemed too simple to me.  When I tried to zero beat WWV the dial was off by the 260 HZ from 10,000.000 kHz.  That may be because of the way Flex uses the lower carrier of a CW note or the upper. Not sure, but with the Elecraft K-3 you have the CWU and the CWL.  With Flex its just CW.  In any event, ignoring the zero beat, after starting the test, I got -1340 ppb, (always wondered what that meant)  and, as you say,  that's good.  A quick check of 20 meter SSB put all the stations I tried squarely on the standard frequencies. Thanks for taking the time to turn off your GPSDO. 
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Jay / NO5J

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Doug
No problem, disabling and reenabling the GPSDO only requires 2 mouse clicks. The CW mode in SmartSDR centers the carrier in the center of the audio passband. So there is no CWU or CWL. the frequency your tuned to is the frequency your receiving and transmitting on. The Sidetone freq is the frequency of the sidetone you hear in the speakers. you won't need to take into account any offset, SmartSDR does that automatically, the VFO frequency is indeed where the signals are being heard and transmitted. My old TS520 doesn't have a processor or any software, so I do have to account for offsets and zero beat with it, but your Flex does that work for you. Once your calibrated the tuning is, well dead on, irregardless of whether its GPS disciplined or not. But the calibration can be rerun anytime you think it might have drifted, and it might, but once rerun your again dead on. It might have been the other guy that was off frequency. You can agree to disagree with him, and know your a lot closer to being right. No need to check your accuracy, just rerun the calibration and your the one that's right.   
(Edited)
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Doug K0DV

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Jay, the only thing that make me wonder is why, in the CW mode, my newly 'calibrated 6700'  radio now zero beats with WWV on 30 meters at 10 MHz + 70 Hz. If I am truly calibrated with WWV shouldn't it zero beat right at 10 MHz? (You may want to try this on your radio and see if you hear the zero beat at +70 Hz or so.) Anyway, I am still puzzled about that.
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Doug K0DV

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Jay, okay, perhaps I have answered part of my question myself.  I note that as I change the CW side tone to a lower note (it stops at 100 Hz) then the difference in the zero beat from the carrier is also reduced. So, apparently its the side tone beat that I am trying to zero beat, and if its my selected 600 Hz, the zero beat will be high. Then the problem I have is why it doesn't track?  Why, if I use a 600 Hz side tone does the zero beat with the carrier happen at 10 Mhz + 70 Hz. (Actually when I turn up the volume the zero beat sounds more like 50 Hz up.)
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Jay / NO5J

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Doug 
What producing the sidetone your are beating with WWV?
I'm assuming its SmartSDR's sidetone, that your hearing. 
Which if it's set to 600Hz should be a 600Hz tone in your speakers.
The other tone your hearing is the Carrier of WWV, it should also be 600Hz,
if the radio is calibrated. The difference your seeing is probably well within the zero beating abilities of your hearing. that -1350 Hz error after calibration is really tiny. it would take quite a long time to accumulate into an audible beat. The 50Hz difference in the audio is all about how accurate your sound card and motherboard timing is. and those are usually not very accurate. the timers in the radio are very accurate. But your trying to zero beat using 2 inaccurate devices, your PC/Soundcard and your ears.
I'm not arguing, I'm just not explaining it well.  
The better educated, might be enjoying the holiday weekend. 
73, Jay - NO5J
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Doug K0DV

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Jay, thanks for the response. I guess I'm too old school.  We used to zero beat to calibrate, and when the mixed tone went down below audible, you were there. There was no side tone, that was with a separate transmitter and receiver.  You just adjusted the oscillator of the receiver until the beat went silent.  Anyway, I need to adjust my thinking to SDR which is a long way from my 6146 tubed transmitter and the HQ-100 receiver.
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Jay / NO5J

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Doug
With my TS 520 If I got within 100Hz  I called that dead on, of course it also drifted up to about 300Hz so I tuned everything by ear and never worried about the indications from the VFO. You've upgraded to a whole other level of accuracy with the 6700. Just enjoy all of it. Trust it when you can, and feel safe in assuming it's going to get the job done. But keep verifying it for yourself. Trust But Verify! 
73, Jay - NO5J
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k3Tim

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One can use DL4YHF's Spectrum Lab (Audio Signal Analyser) dial up WWB in AM / SAM mode and look for the actual tone frequency WWV sends.  The 6500 here (w/GPS) is showing 600 cycles/sec  +/- minus about 1 cycle (propogation?)   This method gets you in the ball park the DAX clock is not GPS disciplined (different clock domain).

Doug, your method is how I set my Drake 1-A back in the novice days.  I didn't have the crystal calibrators that spewed a tone at every 100Kc. 

Best Regards,

k3Tim
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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The automatic calibration will get you close, but if you are using WWV, you must make sure that the signal strength is strong and there is not a lot of multipath fading.  The calibration routine works over a short period of time so the accuracy is very good, but longer averaging times produces more accurate results.

To get more accurate results you can you can also use the Frequency Analysis feature in Fldigi once you correct for the sound card (DAX) sampling rate variance using SRCheck and allowing the XO to thermally stabilize.  My 6700 (sans GPSDO) was about 1.3 Hz and by manually adjusting the Frequency offset in SmartSDR, I was able to get it within 0.1 Hz.
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Ken - NM9P, Elmer

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Interesting.  I will have to try that.  I have only calibrated twice, in the first couple of months of owning my now 2 year old 6500.  Since then, without the GPS oscillator, it seems to be dead on and rock solid, at least compared to anything else I have ever used, including my 1500, which I calibrate every couple of months.