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A few TG-XL questions

Butch
Butch Member ✭✭✭

I recently received my TG-XL 1x3. Initially I started using using Dave's (WO2X) Quick Start Video to set mine up, but when when Dave clicked on the Antenna Genius tab in the Tuner Genius Configuration window, I noticed his window was showing 5 tabs, but mine was only showing 4 (Network, CAT/CI-V, FlexRadio, Other). I'm missing the Tuner Genius tab. Checking the manual I noticed there are pages that show 4 tabs in this TG Config window, and other pages in the manual show 5.

After setting my Flex to 20 watts, the SSDR TX Delay to 20, set my Flex serial number and such, my TG-XL started working fine, but I'm wondering about this missing Tuner Genius tab. Did I miss something in the setup, or is 4 tabs showing up in the TG-XL Config window normal for the TG-XL 1x3 version?

How many memories does the TG-XL have per band and is there anyway to see what the memories are?

I did a firmware update and my TG-XL is indicating v1.1.1. Is this the latest firmware? I noticed Dave's video indicated v1.1.3. Is his an Alpha tester version?

TIA,

Butch, KF4HR

Comments

  • David Decoons, wo2x
    David Decoons, wo2x Member, Super Elmer Moderator

    1.1.1 is current release version.

    the 1x3 does not have the Antenna Genius tab since it has a built in 3 port antenna switch.

    The Tuner Genius supports up to ten memories per antenna per band. For the 1x3 it supports 3 antennas per band, each with ten memories. On 160 meters there are 20 memories per antenna per band.

    73

    Dave wo2x

  • K1ESE
    K1ESE Member ✭✭

    My 1x3 TGXL won't be here for a long time, but also have a question on the 10 memories per band.

    Most autotuners limit the memories to frequency 'bins' of a particular size. A 'bin' is a frequency range for a specific memory. The HF-Auto bin sizes vary by band with 40kHz being an example. The MFJ 998 bins are set at 10% of the band frequency - 4 kHz on 80 meters, 7 kHz on 40 meters, and so on. I believe the LDG method is not to have bins but to collect the most recent successful tuning solutions for the band for quick tuning of just a few possibilities.

    If the bin method is used, a new tuning solution in a particular bin would replace the old solution. That way all the memories for that band are fresh. The downside is that when some antennas and feed lines get wet they require new solutions that are no good when the antenna is dry. The HF-Auto deals with this by allowing you to turn off saving the new solutions when the antenna and feedline are wet.

    I try to pretune my antenna tuner memories prior to the start of a contest for quick frequency changes that are good enough that they will not trip out the amplifier protection for high SWR.

    My question - does the TGXL use the bins method? If so, are they 10% of the size of the band? Are the frequencies of the bin pre-set?

  • David Decoons, wo2x
    David Decoons, wo2x Member, Super Elmer Moderator

    I will try to find out the answer.

    73

    Dave

  • K5UFO
    K5UFO Member ✭✭

    Is v 1.1.1 the latest version of the TGXL utility or is there a firmware update to 1.1.1? My TGXL firmware shows 1.0.0.

  • Larry _ NY8T
    Larry _ NY8T Member ✭✭✭
  • Les Brown
    Les Brown Member ✭✭

    From my limited testing of my new TGXL, I see that they are not fixed bandwidth segments for the tuning. When you create a tuning solution at frequency A and then another at frequency B, as you sweep the band between these frequencies, the tuning solution switches half way between the tuning frequencies, no matter what the frequency separation between tuning points was.

    One question that I have is that when you do a tune at a new frequency and the tuning values are identical to the previous tuning point, does this get saved as a new tuning point that counts towards the 10 allowed tuning points? I suspect that it does.

    As I do a tuning for an antenna above its resonant frequency as the SWR is rising, I find that after tuning, the SWR below the tuning point rises rapidly whilst the SWR above the tuning point rises slowly. It's taking me a while to figure out optimal frequency points to use, but as I go I document my tuning points and soon I'll find the best solution. It just takes a few runs. Of course, each time you want to do a retuning, it seems that you need to do a factory reset.

  • Butch
    Butch Member ✭✭✭

    Thanks for your reply Dave. Once set, is there anyway to view the TG-XL memories?

    Butch KF4HR

  • David Decoons, wo2x
    David Decoons, wo2x Member, Super Elmer Moderator

    Unfortunately no. I suggest making a cheat sheet for where you have it tuned.

    On a side note - take advantage of ranges of the band where your antenna is resonant enough to not need the tuner in circuit. In the band configurator check the bypass box and enter the start and stop frequencies for the bypass range in kHz. This helps to minimize amount of memories needed.

    Dave wo2x

  • K1ESE
    K1ESE Member ✭✭

    Les, once you get the tuning points the way you want then is there a way to keep them from being overwritten?

    Dave, I don't believe there is a right or wrong answer to how memories should be designed. However, it is very helpful to know exactly how the memories in the TGXL will behave so that we can adjust our operating to make the best use of the tuner. This is especially true for those of us using non-resonant antennas that always need the tuner.

  • David Decoons, wo2x
    David Decoons, wo2x Member, Super Elmer Moderator

    It would depend on the antenna. A very narrow band antenna can be resonant at one part of the band but either side may have a different SWR curve, meaning one non-resonant section may require shorter distance between tuning frequencies than the other. I checked SWR across the band on each antenna and wrote down the part of each band that was resonant and bypassed those parts. For the remainder I experimented with different tuning points and observed how quick the SWR rose as I tuned.

    On 17 meters I use two tuning memories, both higher in the band. On 30 meters I need just one memory. on 80 the antenna is not resonant anyplace so all ten are used. What I did was start at 3.525 and tune every 50 kHz. This put the last memory at 3.975. That keeps me within 25 kHz of a tuned point any place in the band.

    From my experimentation it appears the crossover point is halfway between one tuning memory and the next. The tuner will try to use the closest tuning solution. I have also tried and found starting with the tuner reset to defaults I enter the bypass segments (entered in kHz) then start at bottom of band and tune up from the edge of the band, not close to the edge. Then move up band watch SWR increase to figure out how far apart I should keep tuning solutions.

    Think of the memory’s as “bins” that some tuners use. There are ten per antenna on each band. The nice thing is the width is determined on where you tune. If you have a non-resonant antenna and don’t operate CW of digital modes then your bandwidth on that band is a lot smaller and distance between tuning solutions can be smaller distance.

    one note - I keep say ten memories per antenna per band on 160 that number is twenty per antenna. That is due to 160 meter antennas usually being more narrow banded.

    73

    Dave wo2x

  • Sergey KN7K
    Sergey KN7K Member ✭✭

    I think the bands segments covered by number of memories should be published in Manual.

    Very simple request and it it would eliminate number of similar posts and questions.

    Sergey, KN7K

  • K1ESE
    K1ESE Member ✭✭

    Dave, I understand your answer to be that the 'bin' width is dynamic based on the closest successful solution already in memory. In practice, I will need to have the tuner and that looks to be months away.

    I agree with Sergey that the design of the memories should be in the manual.

  • David Decoons, wo2x
    David Decoons, wo2x Member, Super Elmer Moderator

    The manual that was published was a preliminary manual. I do not have information on availability of any revisions.

    From my testing and experience so far the width of the tuning memory is determined by the memory either side of it.

    73

    Dave wo2x

  • DonS
    DonS Member ✭✭

    I am waiting for the 1x3 tuner and I have a few questions regarding the tuner. I should add that I read the user's guide. I only have two antennas: beam and vertical. I was thinking I would use the third antenna port for a dummy load. I was wondering what happens to the antenna ports when the tuner is turned off. Are the antenna ports set to ground? I have three radios that will feed into the TX port via a Delta switch. The first radio is a Flex 6700 so I do not see an issue interfacing with the TG-XL, however, the other two radios will not have an interface with the tuner. I noticed that the spec mention Legacy Exciter interface. Does that mean the frequency counter will set the tuner to the correct band/frequency when the transmitter is put into Tune mode and the tuner is set to operate?

    Don - kx9q

  • Phillip Hare
    Phillip Hare Member ✭✭
    [{"insert":"I have a question about my TGXL 1x3 tuner. It has A and B ports but only A port is available to use. Will B port be available with a future firmware/software upgrade?\n"}]
  • Butch
    Butch Member ✭✭✭

    Phillip - Are you sure you have a TG-XL 1x3? I own two TG-XL's and neither one has A and B ports. The 1x3 model has a TX port and Ant1, Ant2, and Ant3 ports.

    Based on your description it sounds like you may have the TG-XL SO2R version. If that's that the case this version is designed to tune either A or B ports, switchable, but it will not tune both the A and B ports at the same time.

    Butch KF4HR

  • David Decoons, wo2x
    David Decoons, wo2x Member, Super Elmer Moderator

    I think Phillip is referring to the app. What version is the TG XL app? Early versions of the Windows app sowed A and B which are for the SO2R version even though your hardware is the 1x3 tuner.

  • Phillip Hare
    Phillip Hare Member ✭✭
    It is a 1x3 and does have A and B port on the back. The B port is not used per tech Dan Q. at Flex but I haven't received an answer as to why 2 (physical) ports when only one is used. And, according to the manual I cannot configure A port for both my Flex and my ICOM - no matter that only one is in use at any time. In short - according to the manual it can only be used with one radio, period. If you want to use another radio - either disconnect one and configure the port for the other radio - or buy another tuner...
  • Phillip Hare
    Phillip Hare Member ✭✭
    Refer to page 11 of the TGXL manual - it shows Ports A and B but states only A is active.
  • Phillip Hare
    Phillip Hare Member ✭✭
    As well, the manual answers one of my questions (who reads the instructions?). Port B is physically present - but is only for SO2R operation. I suppose it saved in manufacturing costs... Still remaining is an issue of using multiple radios with this tuner. I've had several tuners and they all use RF sense without the use of additional cabling from the rig...not so with the Genius. I miss my Palstar tuner already :(
  • WX7Y
    WX7Y Member ✭✭✭

    If you haven't had it more then 30 days you can get with flex and get a refund for it.

  • Phillip Hare
    Phillip Hare Member ✭✭

    I have emailed JP about an exchange for the SO2R version as I now have an Antenna Genius on the way. With that configuration, I will be able to run 2 different radios - or even utilize the SO2R capability of my 6600M and PGXL.

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