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TGXL shipped to early PGXL buyer

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Comments

  • David Decoons, wo2x
    David Decoons, wo2x Member, Super Elmer Moderator

    The band configuration is per antenna for each band, not per port. You can use an antenna on either port and it has the same tuning solution for both ports. Why have a setting for each band? make sense?

    In this screen you define the minimum SWR tuning vale for a tune cycle and you define what segment of the band (if any) for the tuner to be bypassed for each antenna, not for each port.

    For a SteppIR you would want to bypass it for the whole band. The start and stop are entered in kHz, example - 14000 start and 14350 end and check the box.

    73

    Dave wo2x

  • Sergey KN7K
    Sergey KN7K Member ✭✭

    Dave,

    Before reset i had that window specified in TGXL Manual, after reset and configuration, I do not see these PortA and PortB folders


  • David Decoons, wo2x
    David Decoons, wo2x Member, Super Elmer Moderator

    The manual and firmware are evolving. If you look at the manual, it says preliminary. I do not have inside info on what direction they are going. I was not part of the Tuner Genius beta.

    If you think about what I said, it makes sense to only need a setting for each antenna available per band. Why would you need your 40 meter antenna to have one set of parameters on port A and another on port B? The port selection is dynamic, meaning you can have any combination using port A and B. The antenna would have the same minimum SWR tuning value and same bypass range on either port. So the port tab is redundant.

    I am only coming up with this based on what I see in the firmware. It does make sense though.

    Also remember to set tuning power to 20 watts in TX band settings and TX delay to minimum of 20 ms.

    73

    Dave wo2x

  • Sergey KN7K
    Sergey KN7K Member ✭✭

    Thanks Dave,

    I understand what you saying, it make sense.

    I have setup all bands for Tune TX 20Watts and TX delay was already at 25ms.

    I had few errors around 3560kHz with Low Power again and verified Tune power was at 20W. When changed to 3.777 and back to 3560, it worked. Weird. Will keep learning after Holidays, going to road trip tomorrow.

    Thanks

    Sergey

  • David Decoons, wo2x
    David Decoons, wo2x Member, Super Elmer Moderator

    Hi Sergey, one last thing to keep in mind. There are ten tuning memories per antenna, per band.

    What I did on 80, which is my worst antenna for SWR is I tuned every 50 kHz starting at 3.575 and going up the band. If you are trying to tune on each frequency and have tuned on more than ten different locations in the band on one antenna, that may be an issue.

    You can always reset the tuner and try tuning as I suggest. Depending on antenna you can have no memories used or up to ten.


    73

    Dave wo2x

  • bahillen
    bahillen Member ✭✭

    Dave, wo2x

    I had problem with LOW POWER message using the TUNE on TGXL. Also the PGXL did not go into standby. I did a reset as you suggested and those two things seem to be working fine now. It appears like after the initial setup the TGXL needs to be reset again as a procedure.

    I still have a question/issue with the bypass not appearing to bypass the tuner. My assumption is that when you hit the BYPASS button on the utility the PGXL should go to the antenna directly. That doesn't seem to be the case. The Power is still indicated on the wattmeter of the TGXL and is less than the PGXL shows by 20%. I am using a high power dummy load for testing. I need to add an external wattmeter at the load and test more to verify. Do I have to put TGXL in standby to really bypass the tuner?

    On 6m and 10m the TGXL seems to have about 1 to 1.3 db loss even with the 50 ohm dummy load.on 6m with 42.7 watts of drive from 6600 PGXL shows 1148 watts and TGXL shows 918 watts (1.0 DB). On 10m 28.074 972 PGXL 748 TGXL for 1.16 db. In both cases the SWR was 1.2:1 or less. On 40 m the loss is not much (.05 db). Even 12m is only .34 db.

    73

    Bill W9JJB

  • Bill AB7AA
    Bill AB7AA Member ✭✭

    Dave, WO2X

    Do I understand you correctly? That for the SO2R TGXL it memorizes only one antenna for both ports and not different antennas? If so, that is a severe limitation. I have one horizontal antenna system and one vertical system for all bands for diversity. It doesn't appear that way in the software. When I switch ports the antenna settings change. Please clarify.

    Also, your comment that it only memorizes 10 settings per band. I don't remember seeing that limitation in the preliminary manual. What I do remember is that it recalls the setting last used within 10 KHz. Isn't the whole idea of a tuner capable of matching a 10:1 SWR to extend the coverage of an antenna? It seems capable of tuning a single 80 M dipole for the entire band, but that can't be done with only 10, 20 KHz steps.

    Bill, AB7AA

  • David Decoons, wo2x
    David Decoons, wo2x Member, Super Elmer Moderator

    @bahillen the wattmeter in the PG XL is not as accurate as the one in the tuner.The wattmeter in the tuner is before the tuner circuit. Think about how you hooked up a radio, the meter, then tuner. The meter needs to be before the tuner circuit to read correctly.

    If your PG XL is reading high then it could be two reasons. First, depending on where along the coax the meter is located you can see differences in meter readings.

    Second, it is possible the PG XL meter calibration might be off. I use the PG XL, TG XL, and LP700 with four sensors, two on input of amp, and two on output. The Tuner Genius meter on steady carrier is very close to the LP700, while my PG XL reads high on some bands.


    @Bill AB7AA let me clarify. The tuner supports up to four different antennas per band. Each antenna can have up to ten tune memories per band. Again, ten memories per band per antenna. I use an optimized G5RV on 80 meters. Less than stellar SWR. I tune every 50 kHz starting at 3.525 and ending at 3.975 MHz. That is ten memories for that antenna. The tuner will use the tuning solution closest to the actual frequency, not within 10 kHz. I have been able to go anyplace on 80 meters with an SWR better than 1.5:1. Above 3.875 my SWR without tuner gets quite high so I do not run full power. Like other tuners the power needs to be derated when your native SWR is above a certain point. I do not know what point that is. I don’t remember seeing that in the manual for a specific value.


    73

    Dave wo2x

  • Bill AB7AA
    Bill AB7AA Member ✭✭

    Dave,

    Thanks for clarifying a bit. The manual then should remove the 10 KHz comment and be replaced by your explanation. I will now have to reset the memory and re-fingerprint my dipole.

    Also, it appears that the TGXL will place a maximum power limit bar above the appropriate value when the native SWR becomes too high. I have seen this bar, particularly on 6 meters. I hope that it is calculated correctly because operators will assault (but not try to exceed) that limit. I have not stooged my way up there yet but I'm sure that it might kick out the amp automatically if exceeded. This needs investigating.

    Bill, AB7AA

  • Tim VE6SH
    Tim VE6SH Member ✭✭

    Sergey. Interesting! I did try deleting and downloading a new copy of the utility, but same issue.

    Tim VE6SH

  • bahillen
    bahillen Member ✭✭

    @David Decoons, wo2x

    The PGXL watt meter reads almost the same on bands 160 thuough 20 m even up to 12m. I added a meter at the dummy load but is not like the LP700 for sure.

    What is the loss you see in the antenna tuner with 50 ohm dummy load. also if you bypass with the button does the signal really go straight through to the antenna?

    Bill

  • Sergey KN7K
    Sergey KN7K Member ✭✭

    I believe there is some bug, or my unit issue, or operator :) , but will be able to do more testing only next week, as i am leaving town today.

    Yesterday i saw it on 80m and today on 6m - Low Power warning. I verified I have 20w on Tune and any tune attempt resulted in Low Power message last night on 80m until i changed frequency ,tuned there fine, came back I and tuned ok on the frequency that failed before. This morning I tried to tune on 50313khz, it failed with Low Power error, i moved about 100khz UP, tuned fine , came back to 50313 and it tuned fine. I did not do 10 stored memories on either bands yet. And yesterday i tuned fine on 50313, but not today, so it is something that I have to understand further.

    Also, how do you reset memories? If it covered in Manual, i have to find it.

    Dave, I know we are bombarding you with questions that you may not have all answers :) So, Thank you to be patient.

    Also, we may create new post "TGXL Q&A" to have all learning at one post that may help to other owners.

    Sergey, KN7K

  • David Decoons, wo2x
    David Decoons, wo2x Member, Super Elmer Moderator

    You can reset the tuner by holding the front panel Operate button while turning on the rear switch. Continue to hold the button until you see Reset Config.

    Not sure why you are seeing the low power warnings. If the 6 meter antenna is below 1.3:1 on portions of the band you can bypass the tuner for that portion. Check the bypass box in configurator screen. Enter the start and end for the bypass segment. Enter the frequency in kHz, not MHz. See if that helps.

    On 40 meters my antenna is acceptable from 7.1 to 7.2. I bypassed that segment. I tuned at 7.025, 7.075, 7.225 and 7.275. So I only needed to use 4 memories. My thinking is more is not always better.

    I bypassed the complete 12 and 17 meter bands as SWR on my 5 band Yagi is acceptable.

    I have to borrow a high power dummy load to do testing. Again, my philosophy is bypass when SWR is natively low. No need to run high power through the tuner components.

    Nice feature of having everything Flex & 4O3A is if there was a high SWR event (tree limb takes down dipole) the system stops transmitting VERY quickly.

    Enjoy, and to those in the U.S., Happy Fourth!

    73 & good DX

    Dave wo2x

  • bahillen
    bahillen Member ✭✭

    So far I have resolved my issues with the Tuner Genius. The setup was straight forward and did have to do a factory reset after setting up the first time with my PGXL. It seemed that the TUNE did not put the PGXL in STANDBY during the tuning process until a factory reset. This is not a Johnson Matchbox. The Tuner Genius functionality is incredible and worth the very long wait.

    The learning process took some time for me. It was a question of my understanding of the functions of the various configurations and what I expected to occur. The manual and documentations focus on setting up with various radios and is detailed. To TUNE you have to use the TUNE Button on the Tuner Genius or the Tuner Genius utility and not the TUNE button on the 6600. When you are familiarizing your self with the tuner functions (playing) I would suggest setting the PGXL to a lower power, maybe 100 watts just as a caution to protect the Tuner Genius.

    It would be helpful if the Tuner Genius user manual had more information explaining for a new user how the simple things work for an operator. The Tuner is being controlled by a computer and the software is doing things automatically. The functions are changing depending on the conditions eg The SWR, band frequency, dummy load vs antenna etc. Bypass and Standby had to be figured out, as my expectation was that Bypass meant you bypass the antenna tuner which it doesn't necessarily. So far I think that requires STANDBY. If you have a SWR that is low the tuner maybe bypassed but if higher SWR it is not bypassed.

    I only have multiband wire antennas and would caution you that If your antenna is having a problem, the tuner will still it tune the antenna and you may not know you are having a problem. If you antenna is normally 1.5:1 and goes to 8:1 you may think everything is fine showing 1.2:1. You may want to develop a procedure to check the antenna with the tuner in STANDBY. If the band is dead when it should not be, give it a check.

    The wattmeter is ahead of the tuning elements of the tuner as Dave explained and in the documentation. My assumption was that they should measure the same PO and SWR as the PGXL. Mine doesn't especially on 10m and 6m. I initially thought it was because of the loss of the tuner but that is not the case. The Tuner Genius has a better/newer power meter that could be some of the cause. PGXL calibration?? Have not figured that out yet. As an engineer, my curiosity is always working.

    After working on the dummy load and taking a lot of data I found hooking it up to real antennas made the operation more obvious. My PGXL loves working into a 1.1:1 SWR of the Tuner Genius. This Tuner Genius is definitely two thumbs up. 4O3A has done an outstanding implementation.

    As a side note, since you are installing an expensive antenna tuner, spend $100 and put in new double shielded cables from your radio output all the way to amplifier and the tuner. I found new jumper cables purchased at Dayton had nice cable but the soldering job was very bad. Center pin cold flowed and an outer jacket on another poorly done. A bad cable will confuse your operation and analysis.

    73

    Bill W9JJB

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