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WNB doesn't seem to do anything?

John KB4DUJohn KB4DU Member ✭✭
edited August 10 in SmartSDR for Windows
No matter if the WNB is on or off, the noise level stays the same. I sounds like power line noise (frying). The NR helps a lot but not the WNB. Am I expecting too much?

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Answers

  • Jim MillerJim Miller Member ✭✭
    edited May 2019
    Yes, I have noticed the same thing.  Hope you get a good reply!
    73
    WA5TEF
  • KC8PKC8P Member ✭✭
    edited May 2019
    All depends of the noise characteristics, sometimes works well, sometimes does not.
  • k3Timk3Tim Member ✭✭
    edited May 23
    The WNB  is effective for correlated wideband noise.
    There are some YouTube videos (search for WNB Flex) that demonstrate WNB.

    At this station WNB is not needed, thank Heaven!

    _..--
    k3Tim
  • WX7YWX7Y Member ✭✭
    edited June 6
    You will only see it light up and work when you have WIDE BAND noise like atmospheric noise. 
    You may not ever see it turn on above say 30 meters but the Low bands you will have many occasions when it will be on most of the time and really helps a bunch. 

    Also just a heads up If you don't have much gain on the DSP filters, NR,  NB,  WNB, and ANF not set any HIGHER then necessary to take care of your type of noise you will find sweet spots that DO NOT trash the loud station RX Audio.
    My settings that work well FOR ME are below:
    WNB = 10   normally ON
    NB = 40 or lower  normally OFF
    NR = 3-6   normally OFF
    ANF = 6   normally OFF

    your settings will vary
    73
    Bret
    WX7Y


  • KF4HRKF4HR Member ✭✭
    edited May 2019
    Reference the WNB function, I thought the same thing for the first year I owned my 6700.  I saw zero difference with the WNB function turned on or off.  Then one evening I noticed a different noise had appeared.  This was odd because I live in the sticks and local noise isn't normally a problem.  It turned out to be a sail boat had anchored near my property and the boat was covered in blinking Christmas lights.  For grins I activated the WNB function and the noise was gone!  As it turns out, WNB knocks out a specific type of noise, which I normally never have. 
  • David Decoons, wo2xDavid Decoons, wo2x Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 11
    I have power line arcing here that rears its ugly head after a windy day. I use the WNB with level of 92. The results are stunning. I can see a 20 tp almost 30 dB drop in noise floor. Makes the difference in being able to work stations or not. I have YouTube videos demonstrating the effect on my noise. Steve Hicks has used one of my videos in his presentations on WNB. One note - as you get closer to 100 you will reach a point where it get distorted and rx cuts out. Dave wo2x
  • John KB4DUJohn KB4DU Member ✭✭
    edited May 2019
    None of those make any difference for me.
  • John KB4DUJohn KB4DU Member ✭✭
    edited June 11
    This is what I get.
  • WX7YWX7Y Member ✭✭
    edited June 6
    John,
    The Flex radios have so many noise litigating settings and the DNS stuff may not even work on your type of noise? if they don't then your really the lucky one.

    A couple of things to try, Not sure what Radio your using  but try turning off the Pre-AMP or dropping it a step.

    Have you properly adjusted your AGC-T level down properly?

    What is your RX Filter set at, try stepping it down? 

    My ears are VERY sensitive to the HIGH frequency noise or (white noise) so I run the RX EQ
    You can try to see if it helps you, turn ON the RX Audio Equilizer, set all it's settings to the center 0 line, start on the far right side at 8K and turn the level down -5 or so,  I set mine to -8.
    Then move to the 4K slider down and move it down to about -5 see if the frying starts to drop a little bit, I set mine to -5.
    Now slowly move the 2K down until it gets rid of more of the frying (white noise), I set mine to -2
    You really don't need to have much gain if any on 63hz or even 125Hz so run them down below ZERO  I set mine to -6 and -2 respectfully because these are out of human hearing range and I really dought you can hear at 4K  and for sure not 8K either.

    These steps should really help with the frying noise one setting or a combo of settings. 

    NOTE: When you use the RX EQ or TX EQ you for sure want to use DIGI-L or -U when you are running a digital program because the EQ will effect digital modes in LSB or USB.

    Hope this makes sense to you.
    73's

    Bret
     



  • David Decoons, wo2xDavid Decoons, wo2x Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 2019
    Try a setting around 90 to 92. I find on my power line noise issue that 92 works on 80 meters. It may not be power line noise but another type of noise. For those going to Xenia my radio will be one of the radios available from the booth via SmartLink. Today my noise floor is about -105 without WNB and -120 with it. It was windy here today so not sure if the noise will act up over the weekend. Dave wo2x
  • Dudley  WA5QPZDudley WA5QPZ Member ✭✭
    edited March 21
    John,

    Getting your AGC-T control  ( bottom slider in the "Audio"  drop down in the Slice )  to the proper level is important,   should find the point the audio level drops,  called the sweet spot .. 

    Dudley

  • John KB4DUJohn KB4DU Member ✭✭
    edited June 6
    My question is with the WNB function. The pictures show that the noise level is the same with WNB on or off. The controls noted don't have anything to do with WNB.
  • Bill -VA3WTBBill -VA3WTB Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 2019
    The pictures show that the WNB was not effective on the type of noise on the pass band. If it were, the noise floor in the picture would have dropped, sometimes dramitically.
    Setting the AGC-T as has been discribed is important for propper WNB performance.
  • John KB4DUJohn KB4DU Member ✭✭
    edited May 2019
    Can you explain this? How does the AGC-T affect the WNB performance?
  • WX7YWX7Y Member ✭✭
    edited March 27
    BOTTOM LINE, it doesn't
    If you DON'T have the type of noise the WNB is designed for then you will NEVER see or hear it and won't ever see when it come on or hear the benefits it provides as has already been said a few times on the other posts.

    You should fill lucky you don't have it at your location, it sure helps with the Chinese or who ever's it is, over the horizon Radar that I hear at times. 

    AGC-T cuts down the noise on the band so the Voice audio pop's out at you, these are for 2 different things and the AGC-T will work on everything unlike the WNB.
     
    MOST filters on the Flex won't effect the Pan-adapter or S- Meter levels as this is how the FLEX radio's are designed.

    Most other radio's when you put a DSP filter or other settings like attenuation or Pre-Amps really effect the S-Meter if that's what your looking for you won't see it on the FLEX because the FLEX is a calibrated S meter and not a relative S-Meter like most other radio's. 

    Hope this makes sense 

  • Bill -VA3WTBBill -VA3WTB Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 27
    Bottom line it does,,sorry.

    If you have a noise that the WNB works on, with the WNB turned on and the noise goes away, if you have the AGC-T slider turned to far to the right the  noise floor becomes to noisy.

    By setting the AGC-T to the knee or just below, the noise is controled as the WNB takes away the interfearence it's taking out. They both need to be working together in order to have the best Signal to noise performance.

    The AGC-T looks after the nois floor, and the WNB looks after the interference.
  • Dave - W6OVPDave - W6OVP Member ✭✭
    edited June 11
    Could the problem be in the way the noise control features are presented to the users? Is this really just some sort of ergonomics problem?

    The noise cluster either works or it doesn't. If it really does work, maybe the "cockpit layout" and "work flow" should be rethought to make it more intuitive and obvious? Too many good people are having way too much trouble with it.

    In any case, it seems way past time to get serious about this issue...

  • David Decoons, wo2xDavid Decoons, wo2x Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 2019
    The only parameter that really affects level of WNB slider for combatting power line noise is antenna gain/attenuation. Typically for my power line arcing I use a level of 92 with no preamp. On 40 meters I can see a 15 to almost 25 dB drop in my noise floor. AGC-T has no effect on whether it works or not. AGC-T will reduce background noise making receiving less fatiguing but will not improve ability to receive very weak signals. There may be other sources of noise in which the WNB is effective and in those situations a different value of the slider may yield better results. Time for me to get the power company out here again. Dave wo2x
  • K5XHK5XH Member ✭✭
    edited May 2019
    I guess I am one of the unlucky ones. WNB does not seem to be very effective on my noise. On 75 I normally see about an S9 noise level (in the day time) - mostly from what I assume is power line noise. Recently I sent my 6600 back to Austin and while it was gone I drug my little IC7100 out of the closet and hooked it up. The noise was S9 with the NB off and S2 with it on. I could not detect any distortion on strong SSB signals. From what I remember I saw similar results when I was using my Flex 5000. I would consider my noise to be pretty typical. My one big request would be for Flex to make the NB at least as good as the one on the 7100. That said - I can't wait to get my 6600 back!

    Mark K5XH 
  • James Del PrincipeJames Del Principe Member ✭✭
    edited March 26
    Seems I am not alone with this WNB issue. I realize this is an old thread but rather than start a new one, let me explain my situation and see the response. I have not seen any solution posted above.
    Recently, I saw a video on the operation of the WNB and it opened my eyes. I'll put the link here as it is really worth seeing, especially for those who say it does nothing. This includes myself as the WNB and NB do nothing at all. I am concerned about the WNB after seeing how effective it was for the poster.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XSbbZMvIbU
    I am at V 1.12.1.35.   I do not use the preamps at all. I keep the AGC-T well below the knee of the curve at around 33 or even less. In the video, the operator switches on the WNB and the overall noise level shown on the panadapter just sinks. It really made a BIG difference!  Mine does nothing with any setting. I have tried all levels of WNB at all levels of AGC-T. There is NO magic setting. It just does nothing. I understand that the NB is more for pulse type noise but it also does nothing for the "pistol shots'" of lighting type impulse noise.
    The NR is another topic.  Most postings say it is not really effective and I agree. It seems to either do not much at the left most settings or, if it is increased to the right, distorts the audio so much there really is no improvement and it is not useful.
    However, I'd like to know more about the WNB here.   I know I am at V 1.   Does this really matter?
    Have there been big improvements at higher releases? Best 73 All, Jim

  • KD0RCKD0RC Member ✭✭
    edited April 7
    The WNB works wonders on the noise I have on the lower bands.  The noise floor drops about 3 - 5 dB when it is engaged.  One thing though, I have to wait for a second or two for it to calculate and apply the solution.  So if you click it on and off looking for a difference, you are not likely to see it.  Turn it on and wait a few seconds to see if it has any effect.  When I turn it off, the effect is immediate and obvious. For my noise, I leave it set around 10. Sometimes I don't hear a difference, it is just the noise floor that gets reduced.  Sometimes I hear a bad buzz and it knocks it right out. Not all types of noise will be knocked out with this tool, but it sure works on whatever nonsense is happening in my neighborhood.
    73,
    Len, KD0RC
  • James Del PrincipeJames Del Principe Member ✭✭
    edited March 26
    Len, thank you for the fast reply.   Yes, I do wait for a long time. Over a minute it does nothing. So for reference, let me ask you what your average noise level is.  Right at this moment, 3 PM eastern, in North Georgia, in the very deep woods it is - 115 on the panadapter which is around S 4.5 or so, which is -100 dBM, give or take on 80, 40 and 20 meters. Granted, this is a quiet day here with no bad weather, full sunshine. Can you tell me how this compares to your situation?    Jim
  • David Decoons, wo2xDavid Decoons, wo2x Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 11
    I have powerline noise issues here on very dry (low humidity) days when it is sunny with a breeze. The arcing of the power lines makes 40 meters almost unusable.

    I find a WNB setting of 93 to be optimal here. You mileage may vary depending on type of noise you are receiving.

    Here's a YouTube video of WNB in action here.

    Dave wo2x

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXo4hYKqIVM


  • KD0RCKD0RC Member ✭✭
    edited March 26
    Hi Jim,
    Here is my noise as of 3/26/20 at 1:30 local time.
    80 Half-sloper  -95 dB as read off the panadapter
    80 G5RV          -105
    40 G5RV          -105
    30 Half-sloper  -115
    30 G5RV         -117
    20 Beam 50'    -115
    17 Beam         -122
    15 Beam         -117
    12 Beam         -122
    10 Beam         -120

    These were all taken with the Atten/preamp set to the lowest value so that removing the antenna causes an 8 - 10 dB drop (per a post on how to set the gain).
    All were taken with the pan span set to the full band in question.  All were taken with the WNB set to 10 and ON. These values are just eyeballed, not accurately measured.
  • KD0RCKD0RC Member ✭✭
    edited April 7
    WOW! that is amazing!
  • James Del PrincipeJames Del Principe Member ✭✭
    edited March 26
    Thank you for the detailed information. Mine is not as quiet with an OCF dipole above the house at 30 FT.  The preamps are off and no attenuation. Removing the antenna also causes a drop as the external band noise exceeds the internal noise. I do not have the span for the entire band but set to the phone portion or CW portion when testing. Many Thanks, Jim
  • James Del PrincipeJames Del Principe Member ✭✭
    edited March 26
    Yes, that is amazing. So why, I wonder, do some experience this high degree of noise reduction and others do not? Is it release dependent or because there is a high level of noise to start with?    Mine has never shown any effect..... V 1.12.1
  • David Decoons, wo2xDavid Decoons, wo2x Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 26
    Simple - it depends on the noise source. For wideband noise caused by powerlines and rogue street lights the WNB is very effective with a setting around 93. This noise shows as the whole noise floor elevated, not in humps but straight line across.

    For other types of noise from washing machines, air conditioners, etc it is not ver effective.

    Dave wo2x

  • James Del PrincipeJames Del Principe Member ✭✭
    edited March 26
    Dave, I certainly agree with your assessment, but I am looking at across the band noise when I select the WNB....set to max or any other position and it still does nothing...   nada.   I have tried it with different levels of AGC-T with no difference.
    I do run the AGC-T rather low, below the knee of the curve at around 32 or so and never use the preamps.
  • Bill -VA3WTBBill -VA3WTB Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 26
    Then the filter is not made to work with the noise you have.

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