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Outdoor Wireless Access point

AA0KM
AA0KM Member ✭✭
edited June 2020 in SmartSDR for Windows

My Idea is connect AP directly to the Radio.

I am going to run cat cable from radio to  outdoors to the AP.

I understand I will loose Internet and the advantages of that.

I just took an older linksys E4200 and made AP and directly wired to Radio and noticed it was

rock solid because the computer doesn't have to sync to the internet.

My area has some low strength 2.4ghz signals but i think weak enough to not be a problem.

My thinking with Maestro or mobile device connected this way for outdoors portable would be great.

Which band should I go with the 2.4 or the 5Ghz?

Is the higher speed capabilty of the 5Ghz needed or will the 2.4Ghz @ 300+Mpbs be sufficent>?

Looking for thoughts on this.

73 Jeff

Answers

  • George KF2T
    George KF2T Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 2019

    Whether or not you have internet access shouldn't affect your signal and radio connectivity.

    At my house, my internet service comes in downstairs and is attached to a router at my home entertainment center. I use a range extender upstairs to bring the connectivity to the shack, but also have a hard wire connection between the Flex and computer using the built-in switch in the range extender. Rig and computer have DHCP reservations so their IPs don't change. Even if I lose internet, the Flex and computer still "talk." Best of all possible worlds, for me.

    With both range extenders running, I have a very nice wi-fi bubble around my house and yard. 5 GHz is usually faster, since there are less competing signals. Depending on your environment, 2 GHz be the better choice, since it tends to "****" better through walls and such. I've been on the patio or poolside with a laptop or tablet many times. Not sure I would want a Maestro in the backyard under most circumstances. Would hate to inadvertently float test it!

    The connection speed, by the way, is not too critical. The Flex won't use very much under normal circumstances. The important part is that the link is reliable - no drop outs. If you get bandwidth issues, reducing the panadapter FPS and speed will give you great relief.

    Enjoy!



  • Mike va3mw
    Mike va3mw Member ✭✭
    edited February 2018
    Jeff

    If you have a choice between 2.4G and 5G, I would go 5G.  I have moved just about everything off of 2.4Ghz and for every device I moved off 2.4Ghz, all latency problems disappeared.  

    Without going into a long update about why 2.4Ghz is bad, all I can say is trust me.  :)  Also, look for posts about this by either myself or Stu K6TU.

    this helps to explain it:  http://pocketnow.com/2014/01/23/5ghz-wifi

    Mike va3mw
  • K5CG
    K5CG Danny Member ✭✭
    edited October 2018
    Likewise, I recently switched to a dedicated D-Link 802.11n router wired to the Flex. I operate purely in portable mode so everything runs on 12V. The router serves as DHCP server and a pair of laptops connected on Wireless-N and it works very well. Better in fact than the wired Ethernet switch I was using prior which was spewing some nasty RFI. Everything sits on the same table so there are no range/signal issues. For Internet connectivity I tether my Android phone over Bluetooth to my main laptop.
  • K1VL
    K1VL Member ✭✭
    edited March 2018
    Jeff,

    Please see my post at :https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/wireless-network-performance  There are also some very good and relatively easy to set up high power outdoor access points and bridges from Engenius that I have used with great success to achieve outdoor distances greater than 700 ft to a simple iPad or laptop.  I have had two set up to form a wireless link over 2500 ft to my remotely located Flex 6500. The ENH202 or ENH500 is more than adequate for most uses. 

    Carmine W1EQX
  • AA0KM
    AA0KM Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    Thanks, Engenius is a company I was looking into. I'll study some more.
  • AA0KM
    AA0KM Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016

    Thanks for the link. The Layman's terms. :)

    The pic says it all.

    image
  • Mike va3mw
    Mike va3mw Member ✭✭
    edited February 2018
    One more thing I would like to add.  

    When you are dealing with a Maestro wirelessly, it is exactly the same as streaming Video to a PC or something similar.  

    To that end, your Wifi has to be able to handle that type of data stream, and it is difficult to do well.  This is very different than being in your backyard and surfing web pages.  If you have kids who are also on the same AP, then all bets are off.  :)  2.4Ghz Wifi can only handle about 5 streams simultaneously without dropping packets.

    There have been times when I have been 5 feet from a quality access point and not been able to ping even google.  It was not an ISP issue as a hardwired computer on the same network worked fine.  Even testing the Maestro in my house (not on a VPN), from 6 feet from an 2.4Ghz AP was problematic.  And, that was on a system where there is only my wife or I.  

    To test things, I bought this package called Lan Speed http://totusoft.com/lanspeed/ just to see how good my network really was, especially my Wifi.  The LITE version is free, but for $6, I wanted to test multiple streams which is closer to reality.

    Without it, you are really guessing at what your network can deliver in house.   While you may be waiting for your Maestro, you can do some bandwidth tests just to ensure your experience will be a wonderful one.

    I hope that helps.

    Mike va3mw


  • AA0KM
    AA0KM Member ✭✭
    edited April 2017

    Thank all of you for your post's. Looks like some of you are a step or 2 ahead of me. :)

    It gives me Idea's to research. Been wanting to try the outdoors Idea for a while now.

    I tried with laptop and distance is not good at all with router being in the house.

    10mw doesn't get you very far.

    My home router is busy for sure. This is why the idea of AP only version. Or could subnet but that's a

     little more than I want to get into for now but is an idea!

    Thanks again everyone.

    73 Jeff.

  • Ross - K9COX
    Ross - K9COX Member ✭✭
    edited June 2020
    For what it's worth (free) I checked my Wi-Fi network throughput using Windows 10, SmartSDR and a 6300. The Send speed varies between 1.6-1.7 Mbps and Receive is 1.3 Mbps. It is the latency that is most critical for a streaming application.
  • Ross - K9COX
    Ross - K9COX Member ✭✭
    edited April 2016
    I should ad that was without remote audio enabled. When on Receive is 1.4 Mbps.
  • Tim - W4TME
    Tim - W4TME Administrator, FlexRadio Employee admin
    edited December 2016
    For the FLEX-6000s, while latency is important, packet loss is critical because we do not buffer UDP data like streaming media applications do because the 6000 audio is real-time.
  • Ross - K9COX
    Ross - K9COX Member ✭✭
    edited April 2016
    How does one optimize for minimum packet loss or are we at the mercy of our network hardware? I can just imagine the challenges of a WAN (internet). A little buffering might be a good thing.
  • Mike va3mw
    Mike va3mw Member ✭✭
    edited June 2016
    Ross

    Actually, and you will find this strange, in the internet world of UDP packets, buffering is not your friend.  It is called Bufferbloat.  

    Your question is a very good question.  :)

    There is a very good writeup.  http://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/bloat/wiki/Introduction

    This supports exactly what Tim is saying.  It affects all real time streaming applications like Ham Radio, VoIP, Netflix and more.  

    Mike va3mw

  • Ross - K9COX
    Ross - K9COX Member ✭✭
    edited April 2016
    Thank you Mike, sometimes I feel as if I have Bufferbloat.
  • Mike va3mw
    Mike va3mw Member ✭✭
    edited March 2018
    Another great set of tools for measuring  your in house bandwidth.  
    https://iperf.fr/iperf-download.php#windows

    Mike va3mw

  • Ken - NM9P
    Ken - NM9P Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    I have difficulties when running Remote from the WAN (with VPN) because my internet provider package has a measly upload speed of about 750 kb/s, which is just barely enough.  To increase reliability, I find I must turn FPS down to about 3-7 depending upon connection quality, and turn the panafall rate down to next to nothing if needed.  When running via Parallels Access instead of the K6TU iPad remote program, I also bring the SSDR display in to the right to make it narrower, also reducing bandwidth requirements.
  • Kevin Va3KGS
    Kevin Va3KGS Member ✭✭
    edited July 2019

    Jeff

    I'm using UBIQUITY Routers programmed with AREDN software to be on Channel -2 of the 2.4ghz band (Which is a HAM band).  My distance is 700 meters to the other station.  Also, using TP LINKS antennas.  Everything is peachy here!!

    Cheers

    Kevin, Va3KGS

  • Mike W8MM
    Mike W8MM Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    So, ... if your running in a ham band, are you using a high power PA?
  • K1VL
    K1VL Member ✭✭
    edited April 2016
    Great tool. Use it all the time.
  • K1VL
    K1VL Member ✭✭
    edited April 2016
    In the U.S. you can run up to 4 watts ERP at 2.4 GHz unlicensed. So power should not be an issue. Most outdoor access points such as the Engenius or Ubiquiti can run near or at the legal limit. You can have wifi links between outdoor access points stretching miles if you have line of sight and can pick a channel without interference with 100 to 200 megabytes of throughput. For long links (miles) 5 GHz is much better due to less interference. If you use a roof or house side mount access point you can easily cover 600 to 700 ft (~200 m) to a wireless client like a Maestro at 2.4 GHz. The most important thing is to run a channel study before settling on a channel to use. Generally avoid channel 6 as it tends to be the most congested. 

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