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Power Genius XL Amp from 4o3a and Force12 Preview

Steve K9ZWSteve K9ZW Member ✭✭✭
edited April 3 in Third-Party Software
Ranko 4o3a and Bill AA7XT have released a preview of the coming SmartSDR/Flex-6000 ready HF Amp they have been working on.

Power Genius XL Amp video linked here

2016 looks to be a VERY good year for Flex-6000 owners!

73

Steve
K9ZW
«1

Comments

  • Simon LewisSimon Lewis Member
    edited July 2017
    dammm time to raid the piggy again :)
  • Howard K2AQHoward K2AQ Member ✭✭
    edited April 2016
    Excellent. One more step towards a seamless station
  • Rob N4GARob N4GA Member
    edited January 2017
    I'm sorry but how is this news?

    A half baked LDMOS amp....that's exciting new news?

    Check out my QRZ page and make one yourself!

    "Power Genius XL"

    What a name, and what a hoot!

    There's absolutely nothing new here at all.


  • edited January 2018
    You might wait until you see the full specs before you make that judgement...  Just sayin'.
  • Rob N4GARob N4GA Member
    edited December 2017
    I know all the specs. I know what the NXP BLF188XR (and the Freescale part) can do in 1x and 2x configs. 

    I've got a 1x fanless design. Buddy of mine has a 2x design. Another guy has 1x by two with a combiner design.

    I'm sure it's a good amp, it's hard to make a bad one using this technology.

    It's just not new..


  • K1UO - LarryK1UO - Larry Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    Rob..  whats the swr tolerance with that final?   All my antennas are under 2:1 anyhow even at the Band edges.
  • Simon LewisSimon Lewis Member
    edited April 2016
    half baked - interesting given it was a couple mins demo with no specs of info - you should be building and selling amps then vs 4O3A if you think your that good ;)

    It will be no doubt designed to run contests cool and reliably - running KW plus for hours on RTTY will soon see how robust your amp is - plus interface over IP ect - plus who knows what else around SO2R etc - so I'd be waiting before judging myself.

    And I'd love to see you run a 48 hour contest on a fanless amp with that tiny heatsink - I run KW level on JT65 EME using these devices - can assure you that running 100 pc duty for hours will soon find how reliable your amp is .. and everything else in the transmit line! it doesn't need a howling gale like a tube but needs a big sink and some air to keep the sink temp down .... and more important the base temp of the device vs heatsink temp.

    Like the locals here who built them for 50 Mhz and use them for a couple of overs chasing 6m Es :) on SSB   all good for an odd over  ... stick it in RTTY/CW/JT - chase some DX or try running it hard in a contest and they need cooled well ..

    you should see the flash when they fail!   50V at 30A ... boom!

    SWR tolerance is 65:1 - my experience is that temp will **** it before SWR .. and my system will trip out before I reach any dangerous levels of SWR
     
  • Chris DL5NAMChris DL5NAM Member
    edited April 3
    Cant understand: Flex6000 ready amp. We have build at our local radio club 22 of these type of AMP's. They have a Banana PI and Arduino as assistant for our B26-controller, a automatic antenna tuner, BPF, touch display and LAN interface also for real WAN remote and work from 160 to 6m. We can controll our amp via touch display or tablet (WLAN) or internet (VNC) or smart phone. Further 30 amp's now exist from homebrewer in EU and USA. We still develope a new 2k5 PA board and will show our new 2K5 Amp at Ham Radio in Friedrichshafen (fleemarket). Projekt called B26-PA, it's none commercial and only done by Ham's. Some info's and pictures can be found at facebook or Yahoo group and at rf-kits.de. Ranko's PA is not new. It's one of many(!) others (Expert, Yuma, Hilberling ...). Only new will be if he ask for less then 2.500$ :-) Our B26-PA is also not new ! We have to wait for real information's to compare - not for nice color pictures or youtube video. 73 Chris
  • Simon LewisSimon Lewis Member
    edited April 3
    Chris ...kits available or just built??

  • Chris DL5NAMChris DL5NAM Member
    edited December 2016
    Simon please contact Reinhard DH3NAB [email protected] for details - it's our PA project manager from our local radio group B26
  • Simon LewisSimon Lewis Member
    edited April 2016
    Tks Chris

  • Rob N4GARob N4GA Member
    edited April 2016
    Larry,

    Like Simon said (get it?) - SWR is not the issue. These will run into a open, i.e. no load at all, or into a short, without destroying themselves. Since the device is $185 each, I have not tested this but there are plenty of videos around.

    You **** one with heat, like Simon said. High SWR will destroy your LPF, that's what gets fried if you go into a high SWR load at high power for any real amount of time which will cause your filter to heat up to melting point, or you'll **** a cap first.

    Simon - yes, I know, thank you. I designed my AMP for me and I operate HF SSB, and CW and I wanted it dead silent. I talk for typically 10-30 seconds at a time. In this scenario, I run ice cold, fanless, at 1400W peak with one device. The heatsink and copper spreader on this amp are huge for one device and it's properly oriented to breath correctly, not shoved into the bottom a case, like every other designer out there wants to do.

    Also, the input is attenuated 16dB so it can not be over driven with a 100W rig under any circumstances, so no need for the ALC circuitry nonsense. I typically achieve full power with somewhere between 20-40W input. 

    I'm not in any way interested in making the amp super complicated and therefore, by definition, much less reliable. Don't want to make it a IOT device. It's self regulating and way over designed not to **** itself up.

    The 403A amp looks very well designed. Another small variation on the output transformers and balun. Looks nice, nice PCB layout, etc., etc. However, I like to make $$ on my business ventures so I won't be making any amps for ham radio operators! That's a losing proposition from day ONE. ;)

    Since I operate from all over the house, back deck, etc., over WLAN with my FLEX 6300 and a laptop, I leave my amp on 27/4. It's been running non stop, silently, for about a month at this point. 

    Try that with some other amps..

    :)

    N4GA






  • Rob N4GARob N4GA Member
    edited April 2016
    CORRECT, thank you Chris.


  • Steve K9ZWSteve K9ZW Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 2017

    It is really neat to see the activity the use of LDMOS FETs is encouraging.

    The reports of their robustness is also very encouraging!

    The 4o3a amp will be in great company, and if it integrates well with SmartSDR/Maestro certainly be great shack addition.

    I was told the ATU would be optional, a main focus will be on serving the SO2R station needs, and interoperability with SmartSDR/Maestro is a focus.

    73

    Steve
    K9ZW


  • Joe WD5YJoe WD5Y Member
    edited January 2017
    Just wanted to post, W6PQL sells kits and completed LDMOS amps at one or two modules, check his site. Most here may be aware of this already. I built a two LDMOS unit also. Photos are on my QRZ page. I did use a lot of cooling, maybe overkill but my choice. Also, ALC with attenuation as well. Auto band selection using ddutil and BCD board. A lot of protection built into the unit through the control pcb. 73's Joe WD5Y
  • Barry N1EUBarry N1EU Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    Found this info:  http://rf-kit.de/en/
  • W9OYW9OY Alpha Team Member ✭✭
    edited March 2017
    I was wondering if all the fan noise was related to power supplies

    73  W9OY
  • Steve K9ZWSteve K9ZW Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 2016
    The comment about the fans being on full tilt when not needed makes you wonder if they were power supply or main driver protection? If Ranko's team seamlessly integrated this amp, the other Genius products and one wanted to remote your 6000, it would seem an easy task to put everything but the PC & Maestro at the antenna site. I may end up revising my current build to take advantage of this. Certainly food for thought, especially with the praises for the amp technology we hear. 73 Steve K9ZW
  • Tim - W4TMETim - W4TME Administrator, FlexRadio Employee admin
    edited December 2016
    Fan noise? I didn't hear any cheering
  • Chris DL5NAMChris DL5NAM Member
    edited December 2016
    image
  • Steve (N9SKM)Steve (N9SKM) Member
    edited May 2016
    What was the word on kits?
  • Steve K9ZWSteve K9ZW Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 2016

    Hey Guys, Ranko 4o3a hasn't said he would be producing amps in kit form.

    Or perhaps did you all meant to start a new thread on these other amps which come in kit form in relation to FRS and our radios/software?

    FRS has a formal operating agreement with the 4o3a and Force 12, as deserves to not have the thread announcing their joint project with FRS hijacked.

    I keep hearing a bit more about the potential S02R features this 4o3a amp will show at Dayton and will be very interested in reports on how it will interface with SmartSDR & Maestros.

    73

    Steve K9ZW

  • Steve (N9SKM)Steve (N9SKM) Member
    edited May 2016
    Ill just do some googlin.
  • km9r.mikekm9r.mike Member
    edited March 2017
    Steve,

    A couple of items. Have you heard any other specs on the amp ? I heard the main purpose of this video which was demonstrating the clean tx  and read it includes a large isolation which is very important for so2r but what bands (160 - 10 ? ) and approx cost ? Other considerations are acom and om power but I do not want to rely on DDutil. Nothing against it, but have not needed it yet and prefer not to rely on it.

    Also, I read you have the antenna genius which lead me to research. The video for that seems great and I contacted Ranko and learned that the antenna genius + will support control for his stacking switches which is just fantastic. I forgot to ask however does the antenna genius follow changing band commands to SSDR from n1mm+ ? In other words, does it matter if I switch bands on my flex manually via SSDR like in his video or if n1mm+ does it via their entry window band selector ? It seems to me that the antenna genius will react the same regardless if the band is switched in SSDR manually or if n1mm+ does the same thing via software. Just looking for additional info.

    Finally, in previous thread I respect your view and was simply trying to accomplish the same thing but in a different manner. Sorry for not doing a better job.
  • edited January 2018
    The rumor I heard indicated that the amp may have two 1500W PAs, being designed for SO2R and thus requiring zero retuning time on  either of the two frequencies.  I asked about a price guess and was told probably in the same class as the SPE 2K/Acom 2000A.
  • Steve K9ZWSteve K9ZW Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 2016

    Good Morning Mike

    Specs and such are a Ranko question.  I think the Video was mostly a chance to show that the prototype exists.  Kind of an "It's Alive!" moment.

    The 4o3a Genius appliances currently use each a 4o3a software application that tracks things like band selection(s) apparently directly from the Flex-6000 through the API. 

    Have to do some checking to see if I can make things run without the app running, just haven't tested that out yet.

    I've understood that this middle piece of software's functionality may eventually move into the 4o3a device itself in firmware updates. 

    All best and 73

    Steve K9ZW

  • km9r.mikekm9r.mike Member
    edited May 2016
    OK  tu Steve. Yes was just curious and possibly a little excited and thought perhaps he may have passed some stuff onto you as to what we can expect. I imagine more will be publically available @ Dayton.

    Well I am glad you started this thread and I imagine the final product will be held to high standards like the other products he provides. This is all short term and long term planning stuff for me so time is not of the essence, however , like you have already posted this opens quite a few doors and makes certain things very convenient.
  • km9r.mikekm9r.mike Member
    edited May 2016
    Hi Rick,

    I have not heard the 2 in 1 which would be special and if so acom 2000a price would be very reasonable. I suspect we will know a lot more when Dayton kicks off.
  • Chris Tate  - N6WMChris Tate - N6WM Member ✭✭
    edited April 2017
    want one. 
  • Steve K9ZWSteve K9ZW Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 2016

    Some things I was told were "possibly" or "w are looking at" or simply "we will announce at Dayton.."

    That made it clear that the specs/price/feature-set are not final, and from the demo video a project "mule" has been built, but that might exactly be a prototype in the sense of exactly reflecting the production product.

    Dayton should take the wraps off, per Ranko and Bill.

    73

    Steve K9ZW

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