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Which version of spot integration to you prefer?

Ed - W2RFEd - W2RF Member ✭✭
edited June 23 in SmartSDR for Windows
Community poll: There are two versions of spot integration: one shows spots in the spectrum, the other shows spots below the waterfall.

NN4ZZ shows them below the waterfall:

https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/pfskimer_what_is_the_possibility_for_a_smartsdr_dis...

image

A new version of NaP3 is available that integrates the spots with the spectrum display:

http://www.panadapter.com/

image

Which do you prefer?

73 Ed W2RF




Completed · Last Updated

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Answers

  • Al_NN4ZZAl_NN4ZZ Loganville GAMember ✭✭✭
    edited March 2017
    Hi Ed,
    The reason for my preference to display the spots below the spectrum or waterfall rather than up in the spectrum part of the display is to keep the spectrum from being cluttered.   Between the signals of varying amplitude and the slice flag the spectrum is full already.  This would be more of an issue on a busy band, during a dxpedition pileup or contest.  

    On a related note, with all of these options "display persistence" is really a necessity.   Users should be able to select what they want to see (and NOT see)  by mode.  And using persistence, the system should remember the setting.  Some examples:

    - Panadapter spectrum only
    - Panadapter spectrum and waterfall
    - Panadapter spectrum, and live spots (spots below the panadapter spectrum display)
    - Panadapter spectrum, waterfall, and live spots
    - Panadapter spectrum, waterfall, and Skimmer (for CW mode)
    - Panadapter spectrum , waterfall, Skimmer, and live spots (for CW mode)

    Regarding the last example, color coding could indicate when a call sign is from Skimmer or a Live Spot.

    Options and Persistence should give everyone the display they want, for the mode they use.  
     
    Regards, Al / NN4ZZ  
    al (at) nn4zz (dot) com
  • Al_NN4ZZAl_NN4ZZ Loganville GAMember ✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    Ed,
    To further illustrate the clutter concern, here is a closeup of the spectrum from the NaP3 screen shot when there are a lot of signals.

    Regards, Al / NN4ZZ  
    al (at) nn4zz (dot) com


    image

  • Ed - W2RFEd - W2RF Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    It's cluttered. But there is room for lots of improvement in the display algorithm. Look at all the unused space. Also the font could be smaller.

    A similar problem would have to be solved with the separate bandmap.
  • Michael - N5TGLMichael - N5TGL Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    I like them in the spectrum.  Below the waterfall starts eating up screen real estate.  With the clutter, you'd have to zoom in to have any chance at picking out one of those signals, so maybe not a fair example?
  • Dave - WB5NHLDave - WB5NHL Member ✭✭
    edited December 2014
    I like them in the spectrum but completely agree with Al's comments on display persistence.

    Also, in Al's cluttered example there should be a mouse-over capability. When the mouse is placed over one of the decoded signals (dotted line), the station call changes color.
  • Barry N1EUBarry N1EU Member ✭✭
    edited February 2017
    The ONLY way this can work on a crowded band is with vertically oriented spotter text.  Do you have any idea what that screen would look like during a big cw contest if horizontal text was used?

    I've been lobbying for this feature for years.  This single feature would sell a boat load of SDRs to the contest crowd.
  • KY6LA_HowardKY6LA_Howard La Jolla, CA. Paris and Sablet FranceMember ✭✭✭
    edited January 2017
    I like them in the spectrum display so I have less eye movement and less mouse movement in a contest.
  • K1UO - LarryK1UO - Larry Member ✭✭
    edited December 2017

    Since I find it easier to find weak signals using the waterfall, the tendency here is to reduce the Panadapter real estate  to a minimum while maintaining sufficient slice flag information.

     Adding the spot information below the waterfall vertically oriented as Al has represented would be perfect.  However persistence would be a must and having the ability to turn on/off or resize the spot display would be welcomed. 

     I think even this method during a very crowded contest condition or pileup could get a little messy

  • Barry N1EUBarry N1EU Member ✭✭
    edited June 23
    Here's a mockup I made a few years ago:


  • edited February 2017

    I prefer in the waterfall.  Reason:  On a crowded split DX pile-up for example, the display persistence in CW Skimmer allows for easily matching the call sign with the signal.  The reference point is right at the persistence trail.  I'm afraid that ability will be lost if moved to the spectrum where peaks are constantly changing.  Sure, it looks nice up there with a lot of screen real estate, but I think tracking accuracy will be lost. 

    Paul, W9AC

  • Barry N1EUBarry N1EU Member ✭✭
    edited February 2017
    Just a note that we need to be thinking of not just cw but ssb as well (and digi modes)

  • KY6LA_HowardKY6LA_Howard La Jolla, CA. Paris and Sablet FranceMember ✭✭✭
    edited January 2017
    100% agree. There are also SSB contests and SSB DX.
  • edited July 2018
    Since I never use waterfall, I would prefer the spots displayed in vertical text in the panadapter. 
  • Robert -- N5IKDRobert -- N5IKD Member ✭✭
    edited March 2015
    I like the way CWSkimmer does it with the sideways waterfall. an integrated solution would have to have an option to turn the whole panafall on it's side.

    ...Talk about upsetting the apple cart.

  • Richard G7EIXRichard G7EIX Richard - EnglishmaninNC Member ✭✭
    edited March 2015

    The Panadapter for me, that way no separate window is needed.   And to make it easier to read, why not change the opacity/color of the spot that is nearest the mouse pointer?   So, you could hover your mouse across them and quickly see the call sign within the clutter.    25%  as standard and then 100% when mouse is over.      That way you can see the mass of call signs with a quick glance.  And a quick glide of the mouse across the screen allows your brain to catch the individual call signs.

    Another option would be to only show the first two letters of the call in a 25% opaque state, and then 100% visible and full call on mouse over.   The first two letters are more then enough to determine if you want that state / county etc.


  • Bill-W9OLBill-W9OL Member
    edited October 2016
    As I'm used to the sideways CWSkimmer program method, I think I'd adapt to the vertical-below the waterfall easily. Plus in a contest, the spectrum would be flooded and may be to hard to view. With constantly changing callsigns of the Called station and Callers on top of him.
    During a split DX Operation, it may not be so cluttered, dependent on how rare the station is.
  • k0eook0eoo Member ✭✭
    edited March 2017
    Hi Ed, boy, decisions, decisions.... 

    I like Al's (NN4ZZ) post with the calls vertical below the waterfall best, and definitely want the persistence as Al described.  But, if push came to shove, I'd adapt to what ever the contesters agreed upon....  Because at the end of the day, if we want to grow the flex ranks that's the group we need to work with....
  • Howard -W6HDGHoward -W6HDG Member
    edited February 2017
    I vote for spectrum display to keep things neat and compact.  I need all the screen real estate I can get since I run HRD Logbook above the spectrum to improve workflow.  Barry's vertical call mockup allows all spots to be along the same horizontal axis and allows a lot of calls to be shown in a narrow bandwidth.  Very clean!

    It sounds like you folks have been asking for this feature for a while. I'm new here but my Flex 6300 is going to be my backup rig until I have something that approximates my Yaesu with NaP3.  I also would like white shading under the spectrum trace as an option. 
  • Ed - W2RFEd - W2RF Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    I'm working on connecting NaP3 to the 6000. Is that something you would be interested in?

    73 Ed W2RF
  • Stan VA7NFStan VA7NF President Surrey Amateur Radio Communications Member ✭✭
    edited June 23

    Preference, to reduce eye and mouse motion plus save screen real estate, in panadapter rotated text as in the mock up above. 

    Work flow is critical for 12 hour shifts. FlexControl - Left Hand,  Mouse - Right Hand,  Keyboard - No hands if possible.  Right thumb can flick the enter key without taking it away from the mouse.

    Need a way to click a call sign, populate a text line between panadapter and waterfall, click fields to populate the contest logger.  Trying to imagine voice workflow without constant left hand motion.  Phonetics to text?  Perhaps that's why I'm a CW op at heart.

  • Ed - W2RFEd - W2RF Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    Stan,

    SDR-Bridge does all that now with the WriteLog contest logger. More logger options are being explored, but meanwhile WL is a great option.  Especially because of callsign integration.

    SDR-Bridge is available for download at http://www.qrv.com.

    Now we need the last step, moving the bandmap into SmartSDR!

    73 Ed W2RF
  • Howard -W6HDGHoward -W6HDG Member
    edited September 2015
    Ed, I'd love to try that. I wish HRD had a more robust Rig control for the 6000 so that I wouldn't need SmartSDR at all. Keep me posted.
  • Ken - NM9PKen - NM9P Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    At first, I liked Al's idea best - vertical under the panafal - but after looking at this, I might go with this version if the calls were typed vertically, like in Al's suggestion.  I don't like to turn my head sideways to read!  Either way would be really nice, as long as ther persistence was there, things were easy to read, and the display didn't get too cluttered.  (Reduced Pan Display Clutter is one point in favor of Al's version.)  Choices, Choices.

    Actually both versions have their strong points, depending upon the application... DXing vs Contesting, etc...
  • KY6LA_HowardKY6LA_Howard La Jolla, CA. Paris and Sablet FranceMember ✭✭✭
    edited December 2014
    Yes. Spots in the spectrum display.
  • KY6LA_HowardKY6LA_Howard La Jolla, CA. Paris and Sablet FranceMember ✭✭✭
    edited December 2014
    Stan You hit the Contesters nail on the head. Except that I am a SSB and Digi Contester. But definitely need minimum head, eye, focus and hand movement for the fastest possible workflow.
  • Al_NN4ZZAl_NN4ZZ Loganville GAMember ✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    It looks like there is support for both spot locations. And we like options. How about this, pick your favorite location. Spots in the spectrum Spots in a bandmap below the spectrum Spots in a bandmap below the waterfall Again, persistence by band and mode is the key. Regards, Al / NN4ZZ
  • KY6LA_HowardKY6LA_Howard La Jolla, CA. Paris and Sablet FranceMember ✭✭✭
    edited December 2014
    As usual Al's ideas are right on
  • Ed - W2RFEd - W2RF Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    I'm arriving at the same conclusion:  Flex-ibility!
  • Ken - NM9PKen - NM9P Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    Well, if we have the choice to choose, of course, Al's is best.  I am big on flexibility.  But if technologically we can only get one of them, then I think that on the top of the panadapter display, with vertical calls, and lines that appear upon hovering to identify the correct pip is an option that I would support.  But in reality, I prefer the ability to choose!  (If it doesn't sacrifice other things that I would like to choose.)

    The sky's the limit!  Actually not.  We will ultimately be limited by the amount of code this machine can store, and its ability to access it in a timely manner without introducing unacceptable latency.
  • k0eook0eoo Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    I also like Al's idea if this level of flexibility is possible....

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