iOS SmartSDR Can't Find Flex 6500

David Ahrendts

Need some newby help -- in my first 24-hours with the marvelous Flex 6500. I am up and running with dogparkSDR (a fabulous program) on a Mac Mini Cat 6 hard-wired to a router which is connected to a new AirPort Extreme of wi-fi. Flex is Cat 6 hard-wired to the same router. The iOS SmartSDR app in my iPad, on the same network, does not "see" or cannot "find" the Flex 6500. Surely there is something simple I;m overlooking. Now, using Fling on the iPad, I do not see the Flex either although it is clearly connecting to the Mac Mini on the same network. 

Watts - K4QJZ

If you change your configuration and connect your Flex to the router, both your iPad app and the Mac should be able to then discover it. The issue, when it's on the Mac, it's only talking to the Mac, not the network. Have fun, Watts K4QJZ

David Ahrendts

The Flex is connecting to the network router. The router is connected to the AirPort Extreme. The iMac is connected to the router.

Watts - K4QJZ

Isn't the Airport Extreme a router as well?
If so the issue could be the fact you have a router behind another router. If that is the case the Flex, in networking terms  is isolated from the Airport Extreme which is what your iPad only sees but can't see back through your first router to the Flex.
If my assumption about the Airport extreme is correct in that it is a router as well, then one possible solution is to connect the Mac and the Flex to it directly (taking the first router off the network, its not need) and you will be talking to each other then.
If you have other things connected to your router, be sure to connect them to the Apple Extreme as well. (such as printers, etc.) (If your internet is plugged into the first router it too will need to be moved to the "WAN" port of the Airport Extreme. Two routers on the same network makes for a tricky set up and is not the norm for home networks.)

If my assumption is incorrect about the Apple Airport Extreme and is strictly what we call a "wireless access point" be sure its NOT plugged into the "WAN" port of the router.
Hope this helps,
   Watts
   K4QJZ

Mark G Thomas

Radio Discovery only works if the Airport Extreme is configured in bridge mode so that the iOS devices WiFi IPs are on the same IP LAN subnet as the 6500. (Bridge mode is not the default configuration for an Airport Extreme out of the box, as best I can tell.) You can tell by going into Settings->WiFi->YOURSSID and see if the iPad IP Address is on the same subnet as the IP address of your Mac (which clearly can see your radio). This might be like 192.168.1.X.


The easiest solution is to switch your Airport Extreme to Bridge mode. I found instructions here:  https://gigaom.com/2010/03/03/how-to-setup-an-airport-extreme-in-bridge-mode/


It is possible to use the iOS app on Wireless when not on the same subnet as your LAN, provided there is no firewall in between, because the (awesome!) iOS app supports connecting to the radio by IP address, however this does not provide for radio discovery, so is more involved to set up because you need to know the IP of your flex 6500. SmartSDR for Windows and Maestro will not work when not on the same subnet, because they do not have the option to override discovery and specify the target radio IP address to connect to.

David Ahrendts

Could be. So the AirPort Extreme has three LAN ports, and yes, I run a second router for many Cat 6 wired devices on the network (2 printers, 2 iMacs, the Mac Mini, now the Flex 6500, an LG LCD display, etc.). Another LAN port is hard wired to a second Airport Extreme 100-ft away to create a house "Roaming Network" (two radiating points, same network name). A FLING network scan shows all of those devices. It does not show the Flex 6500.

Watts - K4QJZ

Sorry to short here but running to catch a flight. Another approach is to buy a network switch, to replace your first router with it and then plug it into your Airport extreme so you only have one router for your network. The Flex broadcasts to say here I am will pass through the switch.
Multiple routers and how to configure each to make use of what you already have is possible but becomes an advanced configuration and I may not be your best source on how to configure each piece.
Good luck, ill check back in when I can.
  Watts
  K4QJZ

David Ahrendts

I should add, what I have described as a router is actually a network switch. AirPort Extreme LAN port into a switch.

Tim - W4TME

Make sure you check out the troubleshooting guide in the SmartSDR for iOS User's Guide for dealing with common connection issues.

Mark G Thomas

The AirPort extreme acts itself like a router in between WiFi and LAN, unless it is reconfigured for Bridge Mode. In order for radio discovery to work over WiFi, I believe the AirPort Extreme needs to be set for Bridge mode.

David Ahrendts

Mark, thanks ever so much for sticking with me -- you're very kind. In my Apple gigabit network, the primary Apple AirPort is in "DHCP and NAT" mode while the secondary AirPort (100 feet away and one floor below hardwired to #1) is in Bridge mode. I took your suggestion and set the primary AirPort in Bridge mode (which disables DHCP) and I lost the TWC internet to the network since it could not pair without DHCP. Probably not the solution. Now, here's what I;m focusing on tonight: FLEX, with two network scanners, does not show up as present on the network even though dogparkSDR is fully functional, up and operating. FLEX is on the network, but silently. Don't know why

David Ahrendts

Gentlemen, a wizard on the Apple Communities boards suggested enabling IGMP Snooping on the Gen 6, 802.11ac-equipped AirPort Extreme. Will try that and report back.

• AirPort Utility > Select the Extreme > Edit > Network tab > Network Options... > Enable IGMP Snooping

Tim - W4TME

The FLEX-6000 does not use a multicast process, so I'd be really surprised it this actually worked.

David Ahrendts

Tim, this is advanced Apple network stuff. Can you describe how the Flex 6500 broadcasts it's presence to connect to the iPad.

Tim - W4TME

Yes, it is very simple.  The radio sends a non-network specific broadcast pack (255.255.255.255) on port udp/4992 that describes the radio type, serial number, installed firmware, the IP address of the radio and if the radio is in use by a GUI client, the IP address of that client.

David Ahrendts

Tim, very helpful. We'll work on it and report back.

Mark G Thomas

Were you able to determine your iPad's IP address and confirm that IP is in the same subnet as the Mac and Flex Radio?

David Ahrendts

Tim and Mark, I have a Level 9 Apple AirPort expert engaged on the Apple Communities boards who just happens to be an amateur radio technician class operator (how lucky do I get), and I will check tonight on the subnets between the wired Flex and the wireless iPad. Tim, you are correct -- they must match on the network. Here is his comment to my question:

Shouldn't the 255 packs from the wired FLEX 6500 just pass through the switch to the wireless side of the Apple AirPort?

Yes, they should. As long as every device is on the same local network subnet, they should pass "through" both the D-Link and the AirPort's built-in Ethernet switches.

If you are familiar with Ethernet switches, you would know that they can operate at both layer 2 & 3 of the OSI model. Devices in the same layer 2 segment do not need routing to reach local peers. They just need to know the destination MAC (hardware) address which is resolved using ARP.

So within this layer 2 environment is where broadcast traffic resides. As mentioned earlier any broadcast traffic going to a switch will be forwarded out all ports with the exception of the port the broadcast packet arrived on. Broadcasts are contained in the same layer 2 segment, as they do not traverse past a layer 3 boundary. In other words broadcasts are limited to their broadcast domain in which they reside. At layer 2 that is an individual network segment. By default, the AirPort uses the 10.0.1.x network segment.

Utilizing VLANs can change all of this. I am assuming that you have not employed this for the simple fact that the AirPort base stations do not support this feature.

David Ahrendts

Tim and Mark, the IP subnet appears to be the same between wired and wireless Apple devices on my AirPort network. I checked 4 devices -- 1 wired, and 3 wireless:
iPad Pro (wireless) - IP 10.1.1.11, subnet 255.255.255.0
Mac Mini (wired) - IP 10.1.1.13, subnet 255.255.255.0
MacBook Pro (wireless) - IP 10.1.1.14, subnet 255.255.255.0
iPhone (wireless) - IP 10.0.1.10, subnet 255.255.255.0
Unfortunately, since the FLEX 6500 does not show up as a device on my network asking for an IP address, I have no way to discover it's IP or subnet.
Tim, suggestions? 

David Ahrendts

Tim and Mark, tried it on my iPhone 6S Plus, and IT OPENED. Instantly! So, we have a iPad Pro running iOS 10.0.1 with something preventing it from recognizing the Flex 6500. Just a thought, but might it be the wi-fi protocol? The Gen 6 AirPort Extreme and the iPad Pro are capable of 802.11ac, faster than 802.11a/b/g/n. Guesses gentlemen? 

Tim - W4TME

What version of iOS is running on the 6S?  10.0.1?

What I recommend is you configure SmartSDR for iOS to connect to a fixed IP, which is the IP address of the radio.  Using DHCP reservations, you can essentially "fix" the IP of the radio.  Or you can use the new feature in SmartSDR v1.9 that allows you to manually set a fixed IP for the radio.  This will bypass the broadcast-based discovery process.

David Ahrendts

Yes, iOS 10.0.1. Tim, since the Flex is not scannable on my network either in OS or iOS, I have no idea how to find it's IP address. 

Ria

I really doubt that is the case. If you're not seeing the radio it is because broadcast packets are not reaching the iPad. This could be either because you have router behind router leading to double NAT or the older AirPort is filtering them out for some reason. Bandwidth won't even come into play until you start streaming from the radio. 

If you are using the AirPort, don't use the WAN port. Connect one of the 3 LAN ports to the LAN side of your router and you can connect the radio to the LAN side. You should not be touching the WAN side at all. The only time you would use the WAN side is if this was your primary router and it connected to your internet modem. 

David Ahrendts

Ria, thanks for the input. 6th gen Airport Extreme, the current latest. WAN is TWC cable modem providing internet to the network. A 24-port D-Link switch is connected to the AirPort LAN port. One router here. Not two. All devices, wireless and wired on on the same subnet. iOS 10.0.1.
So here's the mystery now: why does my iPhone SmartSDR connect with the Flex 6500 instantly, but the iPad does not? 

David Ahrendts

And Ria, I was incorrect: the iPhone 6S Plus does also support 802.11ac. So we have two equal iOS devices. The SmartSDR app works on one and not on the other. Stumped.

Ria

Try what Tim suggested, as in get the IP of the radio (you can get that from the iPhone since you can connect there) and try connecting with "fixed" mode rather than "discover." 

David Ahrendts

Tim, I took Ria's suggestion and used the iPhone to discover the Flex IP address on my AirPort network. What you did not tell me was that the Flex is not named Flex in a network scan. The Flex is named "Texas Instruments." Really! So it it is scannable with the name "Texas Instruments"  on the network in both OS and iOS.
I took the Texas Instruments IP address, set the iPad to Fixed Mode, plugged in the IP address, 10.0.1.18, and tried to connect the iPad. Failed.
I going to consider it just a bad installation. Wipe it from the iPad. Re-download it from the Cloud. Should't be this hard. Will report back.

Ria

That is correct. IT shows up in DHCP as "Texas Instruments." 

Do you happen to know what the IP address on your iPad is? You can find that out from the wifi page in settings. 

David Ahrendts

Ria, I use two iOS programs (there are dozens) called FING and Net Analyzer, and an OS program called My Net to scan all devices on the net. And yes, these programs see iPad at 10.1.1.11 -- in both OS and iOS. The network is communicating between wired and wireless.

David Ahrendts

Wiping the installation. Re-initializing the iPad. Re-installing the SmartSDR program solved whatever problem there was. Case closed.
Thank you to all who weighed in -- Tim, Rya and Mark. 
So, as a newby to Flex this week, we learned:
1) Flex is named "Texas Instruments" on your local network. Nice to know. 
2) If ever there is a problem like this, wipe the **** off your device and re-download it. It's not heavy lifting, more intuitive and user-friendly.
3) This Flex Community is wonderful.
Many thanks, David A., KK6DA, Los Angeles

Ria

If your iPad is on 10.1.x.x and the flex is on 10.0.x.x then that may cause an issue, depending on if your network is configured as a class C (255.255.255.0 netmask).