WNB doesn't seem to do anything?

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No matter if the WNB is on or off, the noise level stays the same. I sounds like power line noise (frying). The NR helps a lot but not the WNB. Am I expecting too much?
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John KB4DU

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Posted 11 months ago

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Jim Miller

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Yes, I have noticed the same thing.  Hope you get a good reply!
73
WA5TEF
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Mario - KC8P

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All depends of the noise characteristics, sometimes works well, sometimes does not.
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k3Tim

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The WNB  is effective for correlated wideband noise.
There are some YouTube videos (search for WNB Flex) that demonstrate WNB.

At this station WNB is not needed, thank Heaven!

_..--
k3Tim
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WX7Y

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You will only see it light up and work when you have WIDE BAND noise like atmospheric noise. 
You may not ever see it turn on above say 30 meters but the Low bands you will have many occasions when it will be on most of the time and really helps a bunch. 

Also just a heads up If you don't have much gain on the DSP filters, NR,  NB,  WNB, and ANF not set any HIGHER then necessary to take care of your type of noise you will find sweet spots that DO NOT trash the loud station RX Audio.
My settings that work well FOR ME are below:
WNB = 10   normally ON
NB = 40 or lower  normally OFF
NR = 3-6   normally OFF
ANF = 6   normally OFF

your settings will vary
73
Bret
WX7Y


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John KB4DU

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None of those make any difference for me.
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KF4HR

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Reference the WNB function, I thought the same thing for the first year I owned my 6700.  I saw zero difference with the WNB function turned on or off.  Then one evening I noticed a different noise had appeared.  This was odd because I live in the sticks and local noise isn't normally a problem.  It turned out to be a sail boat had anchored near my property and the boat was covered in blinking Christmas lights.  For grins I activated the WNB function and the noise was gone!  As it turns out, WNB knocks out a specific type of noise, which I normally never have. 
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David Decoons wo2x, Elmer

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I have power line arcing here that rears its ugly head after a windy day. I use the WNB with level of 92. The results are stunning. I can see a 20 tp almost 30 dB drop in noise floor. Makes the difference in being able to work stations or not.

I have YouTube videos demonstrating the effect on my noise. Steve Hicks has used one of my videos in his presentations on WNB.

One note - as you get closer to 100 you will reach a point where it get distorted and rx cuts out.

Dave wo2x
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John KB4DU

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This is what I get.
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David Decoons wo2x, Elmer

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Try a setting around 90 to 92. I find on my power line noise issue that 92 works on 80 meters.
It may not be power line noise but another type of noise.

For those going to Xenia my radio will be one of the radios available from the booth via SmartLink. Today my noise floor is about -105 without WNB and -120 with it. It was windy here today so not sure if the noise will act up over the weekend.

Dave wo2x
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WX7Y

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John,
The Flex radios have so many noise litigating settings and the DNS stuff may not even work on your type of noise? if they don't then your really the lucky one.

A couple of things to try, Not sure what Radio your using  but try turning off the Pre-AMP or dropping it a step.

Have you properly adjusted your AGC-T level down properly?

What is your RX Filter set at, try stepping it down? 

My ears are VERY sensitive to the HIGH frequency noise or (white noise) so I run the RX EQ
You can try to see if it helps you, turn ON the RX Audio Equilizer, set all it's settings to the center 0 line, start on the far right side at 8K and turn the level down -5 or so,  I set mine to -8.
Then move to the 4K slider down and move it down to about -5 see if the frying starts to drop a little bit, I set mine to -5.
Now slowly move the 2K down until it gets rid of more of the frying (white noise), I set mine to -2
You really don't need to have much gain if any on 63hz or even 125Hz so run them down below ZERO  I set mine to -6 and -2 respectfully because these are out of human hearing range and I really dought you can hear at 4K  and for sure not 8K either.

These steps should really help with the frying noise one setting or a combo of settings. 

NOTE: When you use the RX EQ or TX EQ you for sure want to use DIGI-L or -U when you are running a digital program because the EQ will effect digital modes in LSB or USB.

Hope this makes sense to you.
73's

Bret
 



(Edited)
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Dudley - WA5QPZ, Elmer

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John,

Getting your AGC-T control  ( bottom slider in the "Audio"  drop down in the Slice )  to the proper level is important,   should find the point the audio level drops,  called the sweet spot .. 

Dudley

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John KB4DU

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My question is with the WNB function. The pictures show that the noise level is the same with WNB on or off. The controls noted don't have anything to do with WNB.
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Bill -VA3WTB

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The pictures show that the WNB was not effective on the type of noise on the pass band. If it were, the noise floor in the picture would have dropped, sometimes dramitically.
Setting the AGC-T as has been discribed is important for propper WNB performance.
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John KB4DU

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Can you explain this? How does the AGC-T affect the WNB performance?
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WX7Y

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BOTTOM LINE, it doesn't
If you DON'T have the type of noise the WNB is designed for then you will NEVER see or hear it and won't ever see when it come on or hear the benefits it provides as has already been said a few times on the other posts.

You should fill lucky you don't have it at your location, it sure helps with the Chinese or who ever's it is, over the horizon Radar that I hear at times. 

AGC-T cuts down the noise on the band so the Voice audio pop's out at you, these are for 2 different things and the AGC-T will work on everything unlike the WNB.
 
MOST filters on the Flex won't effect the Pan-adapter or S- Meter levels as this is how the FLEX radio's are designed.

Most other radio's when you put a DSP filter or other settings like attenuation or Pre-Amps really effect the S-Meter if that's what your looking for you won't see it on the FLEX because the FLEX is a calibrated S meter and not a relative S-Meter like most other radio's. 

Hope this makes sense 
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Bottom line it does,,sorry.

If you have a noise that the WNB works on, with the WNB turned on and the noise goes away, if you have the AGC-T slider turned to far to the right the  noise floor becomes to noisy.

By setting the AGC-T to the knee or just below, the noise is controled as the WNB takes away the interfearence it's taking out. They both need to be working together in order to have the best Signal to noise performance.

The AGC-T looks after the nois floor, and the WNB looks after the interference.
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Dave - W6OVP

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Could the problem be in the way the noise control features are presented to the users? Is this really just some sort of ergonomics problem?

The noise cluster either works or it doesn't. If it really does work, maybe the "cockpit layout" and "work flow" should be rethought to make it more intuitive and obvious? Too many good people are having way too much trouble with it.

In any case, it seems way past time to get serious about this issue...

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David Decoons wo2x, Elmer

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The only parameter that really affects level of WNB slider for combatting power line noise is antenna gain/attenuation. Typically for my power line arcing I use a level of 92 with no preamp.

On 40 meters I can see a 15 to almost 25 dB drop in my noise floor. AGC-T has no effect on whether it works or not. AGC-T will reduce background noise making receiving less fatiguing but will not improve ability to receive very weak signals.

There may be other sources of noise in which the WNB is effective and in those situations a different value of the slider may yield better results.

Time for me to get the power company out here again.

Dave wo2x
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K5XH

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I guess I am one of the unlucky ones. WNB does not seem to be very effective on my noise. On 75 I normally see about an S9 noise level (in the day time) - mostly from what I assume is power line noise. Recently I sent my 6600 back to Austin and while it was gone I drug my little IC7100 out of the closet and hooked it up. The noise was S9 with the NB off and S2 with it on. I could not detect any distortion on strong SSB signals. From what I remember I saw similar results when I was using my Flex 5000. I would consider my noise to be pretty typical. My one big request would be for Flex to make the NB at least as good as the one on the 7100. That said - I can't wait to get my 6600 back!

Mark K5XH 
(Edited)
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James Del Principe

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Seems I am not alone with this WNB issue. I realize this is an old thread but rather than start a new one, let me explain my situation and see the response. I have not seen any solution posted above.
Recently, I saw a video on the operation of the WNB and it opened my eyes. I'll put the link here as it is really worth seeing, especially for those who say it does nothing. This includes myself as the WNB and NB do nothing at all. I am concerned about the WNB after seeing how effective it was for the poster.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XSbbZMvIbU
I am at V 1.12.1.35.   I do not use the preamps at all. I keep the AGC-T well below the knee of the curve at around 33 or even less. In the video, the operator switches on the WNB and the overall noise level shown on the panadapter just sinks. It really made a BIG difference!  Mine does nothing with any setting. I have tried all levels of WNB at all levels of AGC-T. There is NO magic setting. It just does nothing. I understand that the NB is more for pulse type noise but it also does nothing for the "pistol shots'" of lighting type impulse noise.
The NR is another topic.  Most postings say it is not really effective and I agree. It seems to either do not much at the left most settings or, if it is increased to the right, distorts the audio so much there really is no improvement and it is not useful.
However, I'd like to know more about the WNB here.   I know I am at V 1.   Does this really matter?
Have there been big improvements at higher releases? Best 73 All, Jim

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KD0RC

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The WNB works wonders on the noise I have on the lower bands.  The noise floor drops about 3 - 5 dB when it is engaged.  One thing though, I have to wait for a second or two for it to calculate and apply the solution.  So if you click it on and off looking for a difference, you are not likely to see it.  Turn it on and wait a few seconds to see if it has any effect.  When I turn it off, the effect is immediate and obvious. For my noise, I leave it set around 10. Sometimes I don't hear a difference, it is just the noise floor that gets reduced.  Sometimes I hear a bad buzz and it knocks it right out. Not all types of noise will be knocked out with this tool, but it sure works on whatever nonsense is happening in my neighborhood.
73,
Len, KD0RC
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James Del Principe

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Len, thank you for the fast reply.   Yes, I do wait for a long time. Over a minute it does nothing. So for reference, let me ask you what your average noise level is.  Right at this moment, 3 PM eastern, in North Georgia, in the very deep woods it is - 115 on the panadapter which is around S 4.5 or so, which is -100 dBM, give or take on 80, 40 and 20 meters. Granted, this is a quiet day here with no bad weather, full sunshine. Can you tell me how this compares to your situation?    Jim
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KD0RC

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Hi Jim,
Here is my noise as of 3/26/20 at 1:30 local time.
80 Half-sloper  -95 dB as read off the panadapter
80 G5RV          -105
40 G5RV          -105
30 Half-sloper  -115
30 G5RV         -117
20 Beam 50'    -115
17 Beam         -122
15 Beam         -117
12 Beam         -122
10 Beam         -120

These were all taken with the Atten/preamp set to the lowest value so that removing the antenna causes an 8 - 10 dB drop (per a post on how to set the gain).
All were taken with the pan span set to the full band in question.  All were taken with the WNB set to 10 and ON. These values are just eyeballed, not accurately measured.
(Edited)
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James Del Principe

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Thank you for the detailed information. Mine is not as quiet with an OCF dipole above the house at 30 FT.  The preamps are off and no attenuation. Removing the antenna also causes a drop as the external band noise exceeds the internal noise. I do not have the span for the entire band but set to the phone portion or CW portion when testing. Many Thanks, Jim
(Edited)
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David Decoons wo2x, Elmer

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I have powerline noise issues here on very dry (low humidity) days when it is sunny with a breeze. The arcing of the power lines makes 40 meters almost unusable.

I find a WNB setting of 93 to be optimal here. You mileage may vary depending on type of noise you are receiving.

Here's a YouTube video of WNB in action here.

Dave wo2x

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXo4hYKqIVM


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Bill -VA3WTB

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James, the reason I said that is because the WNB is very effective and works wonders, at least for me. Some time 40M is not even usable if it were not for WNB. So on the correct type of noise is works. Wrong noise? it does not.
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James Del Principe

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Bill, I don't doubt you and don't disagree. It's just when I saw that first video of the overall reduction in band noise and the signals just popping up, I wondered why I could not experience that as well. It sure looks like what I see but apparently, I am wrong. I'll include the link here so you can see what I am referencing. Thanks for all your input.  Jim     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XSbbZMvIbU
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David Decoons wo2x, Elmer

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Jim

What you can do while sheltering in place (what we need to do in NJ) is try shutting down all breakers in your house to see if the noise is coming from your own house.

WNB works on some noise but it is a band aid. The true fix is to identify the source of noise and resolve it (if possible).

I’ve had the power company fix insulators on 3 poles and fix over a half dozen bad street lights.

Dave wo2x
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Wilbur Doolittle

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Half way there keep goin we got ur back!
Willie AB8WD
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James Del Principe

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Yep. Sheltering in place here also. county has us shut down except for essential business.....We have to social distance from the deer and bears.   So that gives me time to tinker with this noise issue. I am aware of some sources but they are not across an entire band.   My under cabinet lights put out a lot of junk on 20 M but not the other bands.  My clothes washer puts out a wide band on 40 Meters.....    but the across the entire band with these devices shut off still shows an S meter level of 4.5 to 5 or about -100 dBM.   I had expected the noise level to drop with the WNB on as it did in the videos but does not. Tomorrow I will shut down the remaining breakers as I did some time ago. At that time it was traced to the light dimmers. I have eliminated most of them, changing to a regular toggle switch. I do have HT lines about a 1/4 to 1/2 mile from here running through the woods. The fun goes on.....    73 All, Jim
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KD0RC

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WOW! that is amazing!
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John KB4DU

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So, at Orlando, I talked with Steve Hicks about the WNB. He explained that it was developed at the Austin facility because there was a power pole that was arcing and making a raucous buzz. The WNB dropped that noise 25dB. The WNB is only effective on that particular type of noise.

I also saw the youtube video and it was one of the reasons I bought the Flex. It doesn't work on my noise, but I still prefer the Flex to any other radio I have had.

As a side note, the RF tracking notch filters are only effective at audio frequencies. They track the RF frequency, but filter the audio frequency, so they don't affect the noise level measured on the s-meter or panafall.
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James Del Principe

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Thank you, John. I love the operation and display of the Flex. I also have among my other rigs, a TS 990 S which costs a bunch more but I only use the 6500. However, the NR actually works on the Kenwood.    It does not actually have a WNB.
OK, so I conclude that my power line noise is not the kind of noise the WNB is effective for.    I don't see the tracking notch filters work either but I'll experiment with them further. I brought in the notch for AM carriers and parked it right on top of an offending carrier. Then selected very deep.   Results?   NADA.   nothing.    73, Jim