Win10 Update DAX DRIVER ERROR

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Every time Windows 10 updates it obliterates DAX

I'm Certain that there are HAMS that are also Developers over at Microsoft, can you all get your heads together on this problem so that it does not happen again???  I'ts ridiculous.
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Lee Maisel

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Posted 3 years ago

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Jim Gilliam

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Yes, I have to uninstall and reinstall SmartSDR every time it happens to me. I get SICK of going through the crap of completely uninstalling this program as it takes me about 15 minutes. However, to get around this, I found a great program that will uninstall SmartSDR...it is called Revouninstall Pro. During the uninstall it has a scan feature which goes through the whole computer to remove all vestiges of SmartSDR. Then I do a reinstall and everything works fine until the next Windows upgrade.


Jim, K6QE

(Edited)
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Bob KC9RF

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Just had Win 10 update issues and Dax or Cat would not work. Just downloaded
Revouninstall and uninstalled smartsdr 1.99. Rebooted then reloaded smartsdr 1.99
and it worked perfectly. Thanks for the tip Jim.
Bob KC9RF
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Bob Craig, K8RC

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They are also breaking other ham software with the "Insider" updates.

Windows 10 is, at best, late Beta and not ready for prime time. The "rush to market" pressures are turning out an inferior product.

It's slowly coming around but it's going to be a while at this rate.
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Lee Maisel

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Microsoft always pulls this crap.  All other software developers have an in-house alpha, then beta, then public beta process.   Microsoft in my experience, does Alpha testing, some developer beta, then RELEASE and let the customers do the beta testing for them.
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Gene - K3GC

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The Windows 10 "insider" updates are not intended for prime time. They are intended for the adventurous user who likes be on the cutting edge and to test new products.
The official Windows 10 is a solid product and I have no problems with it at all.  
If you like to be on the cutting edge prepare to bleed.
Gene K3GC
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Bob Craig, K8RC

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Agreed on "insider" but I've had the "regular" update process scramble ports & drivers at least 3 times since I "upgraded" a machine from WIN8.1  last July. Not to mention other random crap like shuffling accounts around in the mail client.

I worked in private Beta from WIN3.0 through WIN2K and the program had a lot more attention to detail than they do now. It used to be that, by the time it got to public beta, all that was left to do was troubleshoot uncommon hardware. 

They now release to manufacturing while their still having problems in core I/O.

Where have you gone, Bill? We need you!
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Lee Maisel

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I certainly would not characterize ANY Microsoft product as "Solid", :) 
I'm not doing any "developer" or "insider" stuff, this is a stock Win 10 install from the manufacturer.  Windows did an overnight update, obliterated DAX, screwed up the Intel video drivers, etc.
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Bob Craig, K8RC

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Agreed! See my comment to Gene, above.
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Michael Coslo

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It is a very sad fact that the best radio in the world is running on the VHS cassette of Operating systems. 

Every time Windows updates, we get howls of protests from many people in many interests who have had their sound cards bollixed, and resetting settings,  resetting to automatic updates, and now they are updating users to W10 without their consent. 

We just have to deal with it. Because now that there is no choice in the update process, it isn't going to stop. Windows updates have always broken various things. My busiest time of years was the day after Patch Tuesday, even back in the XP days.
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Jon Turner

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Because of the issues raised in this post (and others) I've considered MS products as crap and tried not to use them. W8.1 is stable and updated infrequently. If you run only SSDR on your machine, I see no advantage going to W10.

...Jon... WW6ZZ
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David Warnberg

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You DO NOT have to uninstall everything to fix it... simply uninstall the FlexRadio Systems FlexVSP program, remove any lingering COM ports... reboot, reinstall FlexRadio Systems FlexVSP program and you are done...

Also a note.. it DOES NOT obliterate DAX everytime, there are many more updates that are done successfully without issues.. the last one was directly connected to divers for network and com ports.

I understand the frustration but I think things are blown a little out of proportion.

73's

David, KK4QOE
(Edited)
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Michael Coslo

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Do you actually think that is remotely an acceptable situation?

Not obliterating DAX every time is a mighty low bar to be connsidered acceptable.
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David Warnberg

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According to my update history...

3/15 update - no issues
3/10 update - no issues
3/9 update - first problem I've encountered
2/9 update - no issues
1/13 update - no issue
1/7 update - no issues
1/6 update - no issues
12/20 update - no issues
12/8 update - no issues
11/12 update - no issues
11/10 update - no issues


AGAIN, it doesn't happen EVERY TIME... 
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Walt - KZ1F

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But...it should NOT happen ANYTIME.
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David Warnberg

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As they say on MNF.... "come on man", you can't expect an upgrade of any kind to never effect anything.. just too many variables involved to reasonably expect that there will never be some impact
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Walt - KZ1F

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Wow, you got me on that one Dave, WNF? But I do expect upgrades to never effect anything. That's why they pay software developers the big bucks.
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David Warnberg

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MNF... Monday Night Football....  FYI, I'm in the industry.. they don't pay the big bucks to software developers anymore.. most of that work is off-shored
(Edited)
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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MNF = Monday Night Football
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Michael Coslo

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I can't recall the last time an OSX update hosed or made anything not work on my Mac. My favoite PC update was in Vista, when the update put my Windows laptop into infinite reboot mode. Just as it was getting to the desktop bang - reboot. 


It's all a matter of what you are used to. I was a Mac user who provided support to Windows users. They all saw me as part of the update process. Update breaks the computer. Mike fixes it. 


My problem of course was I needed 100 percent uptime to service those who thought that breaking was everyday stuff. Hence OS X.  Unix - it's not just for breakfast any more.
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David Warnberg

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Ahh.. but UNIX can be broken as well, one slip of the "rm -rf *" in the root directory and your toast.. that is why in the industry we do not allow "automatic updates" of any OS.. that all goes through a team of system Admins that test, check and test again all upgrades against the corporate image so that they do not cause a major outage....  

I've been in IT too long I think....
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Michael Coslo

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Of course if it can be programmed, it can be broken. I certainly wouldn't compare the break rate of my other computers remotely with the same frequency with my Windows ones. Beware of the UEFI apocalypse.

It's the old saying one swllow does not a spring make, but a whole flock of them eating all your bid food and making a mess on th elawn sure do.
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Jon W1JDB

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My wife has an iPhone and iPad. She loves, LOVES her Apple stuff. She does fall out of love quickly at times when an iOS update bricks her device though. No, her phone and iPad is not a radio - it's her lifeline to family friends, work and life.

Seen the same from the multitudes of flavors of Android too.

I'm not saying that Win 10 upgrades are any better or worse but look at this in terms of the number of users and impact and draw your own conclusion.
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Bob Craig, K8RC

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Yes, it's not just Microsoft.

As much as Apple folks like to say it doesn't happen, it does. Apple bricked my iPad II so regularly, that I wiped it and sold it. My wife's iMac gets cranky because they don't update security certificate stores properly.

My Droid phone has forgotten how to automatically pair with the car since the last update.

Competitive pressures, ironically, are making everyone equally bad.
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Walt - KZ1F

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So now we all know that Walt is not a big football fanatic...least ways, not on Mondays.
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David Warnberg

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HAHAHAHAHA...Anyway, we seem to make a huge deal out of  IMO "in the grand schema of things" nothing.. trust me I know that every time DAX is broken all my other stuff gets jacked with as well.. MARS operator here and it HEAVY relies on sound/DAX timing as well as other settings being correct or unchanged or it just does not work

I find it challenging and rewarding to solve those mysteries as well as it is just part of HAM radio in the digital age we all live in... try to live without that cell phone for a while for example

If you truly find this cumbersome and an annoyance feel free to "disconnect" anytime and keep the updates at bay... no more updates no more issues.... and no more of that monkey we all love and enjoy... the internet...
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Walt - KZ1F

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I started to ask how one disconnects from Win10 upgrades but that means a dedicated non-networked, ala Battlestar Galactica, dedicated computer. Right? This is why I am doing it all in Linux.
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David Warnberg

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Hey Walt.. on HF tonight.. trying to find a FLEX net.. there are a few guys here and there.. would love to compare.. around 7.213 right now.. holler
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Lee Maisel

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HI David!  Glad I was able to hear you on the 7.213 net  Propagation was not in our favor unfortunately.
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David Warnberg

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Lee.... was that W5LMM?  wow propagation not good.. maybe catch you at another time.. thanks
So crazy I hear stations all over and yet I can't hear some

David
KK4QOE
(Edited)
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David Warnberg

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is it just me or is 20 meters very quiet tonight?

Lee What is your QTH.. on a vertical here and very testy as to location and propagation... 
(Edited)
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Michael Coslo

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I suppose it depends on your goals. I prefer my systems to stay working once they work. I have too many computers to maintain to be constantly fixing them. 

Indeed, I have a w10 network air gapped from the internet. I just think it's a shame that Windows updates are now essentially malware. 

I just did a huge OSX update last night. took over an hour as the entire OS was rewritten. Everything works perfectly, As you note in your W10 self defense post, the only way to avoid that in W10 is to not allow it on the internet.
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Walt - KZ1F

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We'll just call you Capt Adama.
I have a cloud of VM's in the basement, all running Linux, either RHEL, Fedora, or Ubuntu. My dev systems are all Ubuntu and nothing has been 'bricked' in a decade.
(Edited)
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Norm - W7CK

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It would have been nice if SmartSDR was written in some sort of universal code so it could have been compiled to run under multiple operating systems.

I'd love to switch entirely to Ubuntu or some other flavor of Unix.  I just don't feel comfortable with Windows any more.  There is too much going on in the background that makes me feel my privacy is slowly eroding and I don't have as much control of it as I once did.
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Lee Maisel

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Yeah, a Linux version would be AWESOME!  Not to mention that it would keep Flex's costs down using an embedded Linux rather than Windows on the hardware.
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Michael Coslo

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Hi  Walt - I actually had my first problem with Linux last week, I couldn't install fldigi with Cinnamon Mint 17.3 Rosa, would not recognize any audio, even though the computer audio worked FB. All the gurus told me that I was not building it correctly. But after building just fin unlubuntu, XUbuntu, and Regular ubuntu, I swtitched to Ubuntu Mate on the computer I wanted it on, and suddenly I wasn't as dumb. As I told the guru's, at some point, and after rebuilding the system to no avail, and installing on several other computers, it really has to stop being my fault.....
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Michael Coslo

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Hi Norm, the API is available. OSX does have the DogPark version, which is still pretty much in beta. It's not bad, but  I do prefer the SmartSDR interface. But if we could get someone willing to put in the time and effort, it would be great. If I wasn't so overloaded with things like the PAQSO Party and teaching digital radio classes, I'd do the learning and writing.
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Walt - KZ1F

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Norm and Lee, not to sound self serving but.... it's on it's way. More soon.

Mike, I left Fedora in '07 as it was just too much a labor of love to keep it afloat. The Linux kernel developer where I worked at the time swore by Ubuntu. It was either one of the '07 releases or perhaps early '08 where they broke firmware raid, "oh, just use software raid'. Now I don't do raid at all. But basically, that was the only problem I ever had with Canonical. I, all but, refuse to use Windows for anything other than Taxes. All my old servers find their way into the OpenStack cloud in the basement. I now have several compute nodes. So currently I can spin up over a dozen servers. After I upgrade OpenStack, I'll be able to support about 100 Docker containers. Not that I'd need to. The thing about containers vs VMs is each container can run a separate application or web service so every application is protected from badness occurring in any of the other ones.

DISCLAIMER: when I said, on its way. I do NOT work for nor am I affiliated with FRS. I have no idea what their future plans are. I was referring to XPSSDR and XPSLib.
(Edited)
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Chris Tate - N6WM, Elmer

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Perhaps the grander question is how does Microsoft work with its solution providers to prevent faults like this happening so we CAN get updates and NOT have them break., or is it up to the developer to "dodge" a change like these updates can invoke.

 As a former Microsoft Certified Engineer(I left the windows community for linux work several years ago) I remember them at least interacting with the development community to prevent such issues, and the early test folks washing out failures like this. Not sure what the windows dev landscape is now, but the fact that they are not giving the latitude to Win10 home users to research updates prior to applying is definitely a challenge now and causing all kinds of headaches.

I have only experienced this type of issue once, during testing and was able to recover using the orignal VSP recovery doc without issue.  But it sounds like a small percentage of the VSP problems occur with every update.  I would be curious as to what the actual catalyst and trigger for the problem is and what we can do to avoid it..  It doesn't seem to hit everyone or the entire list would be flooded with complaints, so there must be some use case that causes it.

Its pretty clear that one of the main risks on the dependability side falls onto relying on windows as an OS, and it is vastly more stable than in the past.  (think blue screen of death.. of the old days).  

Maestro of course will be a potential solution to those that choose and can afford it.  

I think with the recurrence of this issue being aware of it, and being armed with some preventative use case would be quite helpful to the community.
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Chris Tate - N6WM, Elmer

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of course this applys to the dax problems as well...
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Ernest - W4EG

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I've been one of those fortunate one that up to today never had a Win10 issue:
However, my lucky streak ended today 14 Jun 17, when Win10 updated.  
My DAX Control Panel v1.10.16 failed to connect to SmartSDR. The TX and RX driver failed after more than a year of failure free operation.
I'm now searching the forum and my notes to perform the necessary changes to the Sound and Playback settings to get back to the digital modes.
May you have better luck with Win10 updates.
Muchas gracias Microsoft!
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Ernest - W4EG

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Thanks Tim,
You saved me lots of time of looking for this article...
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Brad - N6SPM

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I must live a blessed life! I went on Windows 10 right after they offered it to the general public and it has been problem free. I run SSDR (and update as it is offered) as well as a lot of Engineering and simulation software and tend to stress the machine pretty well. FWIW, my machine is a hand-built Frankenstein with an i5, 8GB and a fairly powerful aftermarket nvidia GeForce GTX770 video card - capable but nothing special. I have no idea why it is so robust. I also updated the wifes Dell Laptop and it is problem free since the roll-out. Not defending anything here, just making an observation.

73
Brad
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Walt - KZ1F

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Hey Brad? I have a question. It is my contention there is a common thread behind this dirth of Windows problems. I don't recall you being on here before. Is it safe to conclude you have a new Flex that was initially installed on that machine at the ssdr lavel 1.6 and at the OS level win10?

Ah, and further it was a commercial version of win10 vs a Dell version of win 10. Also, commercial store bought or OEM version?
(Edited)
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Michael Coslo

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Yes Brad - you are lucky. Since hte rollout of Windows 10, I've beendoing a lot of fixing of bollixed systems. I've certainly become a big fan of TeamViewer. It would be better to walk people through so they know what to do, but the sheer number of problems make it necessary to get in and out so as to move on to the next case.

I haventt had a lot of issues with W10, but I button my systems down pretty tightly. Only issues are the forced updates, the resetting of options, and I have the dreaded font issue at the moment after a reinstall. 

If it works great for you, be happy. You are in a shrinking minority.
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Chris Tate - N6WM, Elmer

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These issues seem to be hit and miss.. again only striking from time to time and randomly.. ahh the intermittent issue with the unclear trigger...  I wonder what it is.....
I would Identify 2 separate issues
1.  DAX driver corruption
2. SSDR CAT VSP Corruption.
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Walt - KZ1F

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I don't believe in uncorrelated (hit or miss).
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Chris Tate - N6WM, Elmer

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You may be right Walt but it doesn't seem to happen to everyone every time.
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Lee Maisel

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Good news, this happened AGAIN, and rather than go through the whole uninstall/reinstall thing, I just chose REPAIR for FlexVSP under Change or remove a program, and it fixed it without even a reboot.
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Keith Schlottman

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I was also able to fix a DAX error by simply doing a "REPAIR" in Windows, no reboot or other work required.  Thanks Lee Maisel for the tip.
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Bill

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My latest Windoze update was a major upload of all things Win10 and did a number on my setups.  I also used the repair option which corrected the issue with DAX.  Thanks for that information.

I have set my computer to NOT do automatic updates but to notify and I can then select what I want updated/uploaded to my computers.

Guess I'm just an old geezer 'cause Windoze has never been a desired choice just a necessary one if you need to use related programs.