All the rumors of V2.0 and Gerald's recent post I think got many of us hoping for a release in June. Well today is the day if it going to happen.
I will continue to wait as for me the Flex is still the best option out there and I like the people a lot. However I hope we get 2.x soon and some regular updates after that.
I'm in the software business. I am a manager for a team of 6 developers that work on a very complex software product that acquires data from a 100,000 event per second flow cytometer. In simple terms our instrument bounces lasers off of cells as they pass through a micro channel and we capture the reflections. Our firmware analyzes the half width of the pulse as well as the height. So for each reflection pulse we receive peak, area, height, and width measurements on 28 possible A/D channels at rates to 100,000 or more per second. Data from the instrument essentially can saturate a 100 base T network connection.
We use standard Windows 10 PCs (i7 processors) and lots of RAM to try and deal with this data. We have some very elaborate schemes to queue and process the flood as it comes in. We have to process the incoming data providing regions (gates) and statistics for everything and allow the operator to control the instrument including PMT voltages and fluidics control.
All that being said we have learned one very important lesson. Customers need and want frequent updates. Even if the fixes are small they feel forgotten and quickly get frustrated if they don't get updates.
For us this presents a huge problem because testing the software is very time consuming and complex. It has taken me the better part of a year to re-design the groups involved to have two paths:
Rapid Release
Main
In Rapid Release we have 2 week sprints which means we have only the time to deal with small updates and critical fixes but from this branch our customers get regular (almost every two weeks) updates. This has made a huge difference in our customer response. We are able to address irritations and issues in a timely fashion.
In Main we take on much more risk and releases are more like 6-10 weeks apart. Most of my daily time is spent managing the team and ensuring that critical fixes are cross applied between the branches. I spend a lot of time merging and diffing code between the branches.
I'm accomplishing this with a team of 6 developers, 1 who is part time. We are making it work and the results are obvious. Our customers are for the first time in a while extremely pleased since their issues are being dealt with.
I'm not here to tell Flex how to do their jobs. I'm simply saying we are making it work. Our code is C# and consists of:
3650 Source files containing 3,539,849 lines of real code not counting blank lines or comments. So our project is relatively huge. We have however managed to spread our knowledge so most of the 6 developers including myself can find, fix and update the code. There are a few exceptions of course.
We do all of this and in parallel we are starting a brand new robotics project which is already starting to get sizable. We are approaching 400,000 lines of code in that project.
My point to all of this is Flex says "software is the radio" and I believe we should be seeing regular software updates. I think there have been updates but there are some here that feel they do not address the critical needs. I am hopeful we see this start to change!
I will continue to wait as for me the Flex is still the best option out there and I like the people a lot. However I hope we get 2.x soon and some regular updates after that.
I'm in the software business. I am a manager for a team of 6 developers that work on a very complex software product that acquires data from a 100,000 event per second flow cytometer. In simple terms our instrument bounces lasers off of cells as they pass through a micro channel and we capture the reflections. Our firmware analyzes the half width of the pulse as well as the height. So for each reflection pulse we receive peak, area, height, and width measurements on 28 possible A/D channels at rates to 100,000 or more per second. Data from the instrument essentially can saturate a 100 base T network connection.
We use standard Windows 10 PCs (i7 processors) and lots of RAM to try and deal with this data. We have some very elaborate schemes to queue and process the flood as it comes in. We have to process the incoming data providing regions (gates) and statistics for everything and allow the operator to control the instrument including PMT voltages and fluidics control.
All that being said we have learned one very important lesson. Customers need and want frequent updates. Even if the fixes are small they feel forgotten and quickly get frustrated if they don't get updates.
For us this presents a huge problem because testing the software is very time consuming and complex. It has taken me the better part of a year to re-design the groups involved to have two paths:
Rapid Release
Main
In Rapid Release we have 2 week sprints which means we have only the time to deal with small updates and critical fixes but from this branch our customers get regular (almost every two weeks) updates. This has made a huge difference in our customer response. We are able to address irritations and issues in a timely fashion.
In Main we take on much more risk and releases are more like 6-10 weeks apart. Most of my daily time is spent managing the team and ensuring that critical fixes are cross applied between the branches. I spend a lot of time merging and diffing code between the branches.
I'm accomplishing this with a team of 6 developers, 1 who is part time. We are making it work and the results are obvious. Our customers are for the first time in a while extremely pleased since their issues are being dealt with.
I'm not here to tell Flex how to do their jobs. I'm simply saying we are making it work. Our code is C# and consists of:
3650 Source files containing 3,539,849 lines of real code not counting blank lines or comments. So our project is relatively huge. We have however managed to spread our knowledge so most of the 6 developers including myself can find, fix and update the code. There are a few exceptions of course.
We do all of this and in parallel we are starting a brand new robotics project which is already starting to get sizable. We are approaching 400,000 lines of code in that project.
My point to all of this is Flex says "software is the radio" and I believe we should be seeing regular software updates. I think there have been updates but there are some here that feel they do not address the critical needs. I am hopeful we see this start to change!
Posted 2 years ago
I would rather wait a little longer for a stable product then have them rush and have a buggy one. after all this equipment and software is for a hobby not a business. I work for a constructions company that is currently doing a nuclear project. our software people disappoint sometimes but I would rather have a stable product. Keep up the good work.
I agree. Id rather have solid software than flaky. My point was that they need to quit releasing dates in advance.
everyone does it. they have a projected release date. If during the last batch of testing they find something wrong they need time to fix it. Take Apple for example. they told us there Earpods would be out at a certain time and found a problem with the bluetooth. It delayed the release. We all survived.
I'm happy to wait a little. I have a radio that already kicks tushy.
A question for the people whho take great umbrage at Flex not putting out software exactly on a date announced months in advance.
Would you rather get a product "on time" product that has a lot of problems, or wait a little longer for a better product.
Life has taught me that the two things are often mutually exclusive.
A question for the people whho take great umbrage at Flex not putting out software exactly on a date announced months in advance.
Would you rather get a product "on time" product that has a lot of problems, or wait a little longer for a better product.
Life has taught me that the two things are often mutually exclusive.
(Edited)
Gerald, I just wanted to let you know there are some of us out here that completely understand the production battles you fight. I ,for one, have vivid memories of standing in front of a VP for major defense contractor trying to explain why a $15M radar wouldn't ship on time due to a component supplier (a few dollars) not shipping. Daily calls pleading with the supplier had no effect and when a design/performance depends on the component, substitution/redesign only makes the delay worse. Keep battling.
Steve K9ZW, Elmer
Don't forget, Version 2.0 was promised for January 2017 release.
Promised? I'm rather surprised that anyone would make a promise that 2 would be ready then.
I have been hearing about version 2 for over 2 years now.
Steve K9ZW, Elmer
Of course you have been hearing about it for a long time.
But don't forget that a lot that we all thought we would have to wait for Version 2.x to get was brought forward into a Version 1.x release.
And as a credit to FRS ethics they didn't just name them with the original Version 2.x projected titles to force everyone to pay for a major upgrade.
It may be helpful to remember that dates really should be considered "projected dates" or "not before dates" than deadlines when something new is being created.
You know it feels kind of cool to know that once the Alpha's and FRS pass the code as a RC (Release Candidate) that we're a QC cycle(s) away from GA (General Availability?) release.
No marketing types quarantining the GA code to figure out the very last angle to milk end users for upgrade fees or playing marketplace games controlling releases to do market positioning against competitors.
Just the plain old when it is ready, we will send it out that FRS has done over an over.
I've lost track how many versions of SmartSDR I've received (I think it was in excess of 16-18 or more) which has been fabulous. Just like those installment collectors clubs or study courses one started with from the back of Boys Life magazine. And like that I have the eagerness for what's next??!!
BTW I'd first written on some of the features back in 2012:
https://k9zw.wordpress.com/2012/08/27/flex-6700-fantasies-dreaming-what-might-be-series/
It is neat to see so many guesses/predictions come out in the successive releases!
73
Steve K9ZW
I was a manufacturer's representative for many years. The one thing I learned was that whatever I was to tell the customer, they had to be able to take that information to the bank. They may not like the promised by date, but, they knew in advance that they could count on it.
I am making a guess here, but I suspect that much the new SmartSDR code is probably incorporated into their commercial equipment software and making sure that works properly is where the BIG BUCKS are. For that, stability is of tantamount importance.
I am making a guess here, but I suspect that much the new SmartSDR code is probably incorporated into their commercial equipment software and making sure that works properly is where the BIG BUCKS are. For that, stability is of tantamount importance.
Gerald - K5SDR, Employee
Andrew, SmartSDR is 100% developed for the amateur market but we do have commercial/government users who buy our amateur products (COTS). Amateur is our primary market.
I like having updates that are as thoroughly tested and debugged as possible.
I like having FRS' best estimates of dates for upcoming major changes, even if they are only best estimates.
I like having FRS' best estimates of dates for upcoming major changes, even if they are only best estimates.
Gerald - K5SDR, Employee
Neil, unfortunately people take our sincere best estimates, which are based on the information we have at the given time and they turn them into obligations. Damned if we do - damned if we don't. We gave up on public road maps a few years ago for that very reason. By the way we have delivered on every single feature on the original public road map plus a host of other unique features that were never promised in version 1. SmartLink is the very last publicly promised software feature from the past. I think we will move more toward total silence in the future with a few exceptions when it makes strategic sense.
73,
Gerald
73,
Gerald
Gerald - K5SDR, Employee
In case you all did not read my public communication earlier this week regarding SmartSDR v2.0 here it is again:
https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/is-smartsdr-v2-0-ready
We are still expecting to go to the alpha/beta test team with a Release Candidate today. As stated in my earlier post, we will only go to general release it after it is free of known critical bugs. They were down to two issues this morning to be competed today for the RC to go out.
@Mark
We do rapid release sprints as well to a fairly sizable "alpha team" of customers who represent many use cases across ham radio. The sprints are typically 2 weeks on the front end of a release cycle and come closer to 1 week toward the end as we are down to bug fixes. With a RC, the cycles can get less than 1 week.
You have a big difference in your business in that your customers are professional/commercial and ours are consumer. I spent my early career on with your type of customer and there is a huge difference. My experience is not good with rapid releases to the broad consumer population across a huge number of use cases and wide range of skill levels.
I don't have the exact numbers but I am betting our code base is approaching the size of yours. Our radios have five processors plus large two large FPGA code bases. Maestro has five processors plus the main display CPU. We developed and maintain GUIs on PC and Maestro. That totals 14 code images that all interact in a real time system. There are also variant code bases for different models to maintain.
Regarding a v1.11 maintenance release. We are planning to use the v2 code base to build the maintenance release because it has all of the bug fixes and performance enhancements completed over the last few months. We will plan to wait for a little time until we get the feedback from v2 before rolling out v1.11 so that we take care issues that might come up in that release and roll them into v1.11. I will not give a date for v1.11. There may be a few maintenance releases (v2.0.x) before v1.11 if we need to fix bugs in v2.0, so we can roll them into v1.11 before release.
Later there will be a 2.1, 2.2, etc. with as yet to be determined features. Someday there will be a version 3.0, 4.0, etc. We intend for those to work across the entire FLEX-6000 family of products within their respective hardware capabilities. We have a wish list that we work from but we will not announce what those the new features are until the are in concrete. Our internal desire is to move to shorter public release cycles but that is not a promise of cycle time. It all depends on how complex the feature is. Some take man months and others man hours.
If you are not interested in v2.0 then wait to see what comes in v2.1, 2.2, etc. or go to v1.11 when it comes out and never upgrade.
So that is the complete status with the best information I have today - June 30, 2017.
73,
Gerald
K5SDR
https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/is-smartsdr-v2-0-ready
We are still expecting to go to the alpha/beta test team with a Release Candidate today. As stated in my earlier post, we will only go to general release it after it is free of known critical bugs. They were down to two issues this morning to be competed today for the RC to go out.
@Mark
We do rapid release sprints as well to a fairly sizable "alpha team" of customers who represent many use cases across ham radio. The sprints are typically 2 weeks on the front end of a release cycle and come closer to 1 week toward the end as we are down to bug fixes. With a RC, the cycles can get less than 1 week.
You have a big difference in your business in that your customers are professional/commercial and ours are consumer. I spent my early career on with your type of customer and there is a huge difference. My experience is not good with rapid releases to the broad consumer population across a huge number of use cases and wide range of skill levels.
I don't have the exact numbers but I am betting our code base is approaching the size of yours. Our radios have five processors plus large two large FPGA code bases. Maestro has five processors plus the main display CPU. We developed and maintain GUIs on PC and Maestro. That totals 14 code images that all interact in a real time system. There are also variant code bases for different models to maintain.
Regarding a v1.11 maintenance release. We are planning to use the v2 code base to build the maintenance release because it has all of the bug fixes and performance enhancements completed over the last few months. We will plan to wait for a little time until we get the feedback from v2 before rolling out v1.11 so that we take care issues that might come up in that release and roll them into v1.11. I will not give a date for v1.11. There may be a few maintenance releases (v2.0.x) before v1.11 if we need to fix bugs in v2.0, so we can roll them into v1.11 before release.
Later there will be a 2.1, 2.2, etc. with as yet to be determined features. Someday there will be a version 3.0, 4.0, etc. We intend for those to work across the entire FLEX-6000 family of products within their respective hardware capabilities. We have a wish list that we work from but we will not announce what those the new features are until the are in concrete. Our internal desire is to move to shorter public release cycles but that is not a promise of cycle time. It all depends on how complex the feature is. Some take man months and others man hours.
If you are not interested in v2.0 then wait to see what comes in v2.1, 2.2, etc. or go to v1.11 when it comes out and never upgrade.
So that is the complete status with the best information I have today - June 30, 2017.
73,
Gerald
K5SDR
Hi Gerald,
I hear you about customer base. In our case we pretty much have to do this. But one thing we made made clear is just because we do rapid release sprints there is no guarantee that any particular rapid release goes anywhere except in the books.
We've actually done two recently that were exactly that. Internal feature fix releases for the most part because they were not deemed worthy of the trouble to update real customers with.
But I think what we are trying to achieve is a shotgun effect where we have this set of Rapid Release and we can test each and usually we will find one that is stable and good for customer release.
Anyway, I also completely recognize that 1.x to 2.x is a big jump with many new features. We do our rapid releases within a major release, not around the edges of one. I'm sure you do the same.
As the title of my post stated I will continue to wait and support FRS. My comment here was more to point out one way of doing this stuff. You are already doing it so good to hear.
I hear you about customer base. In our case we pretty much have to do this. But one thing we made made clear is just because we do rapid release sprints there is no guarantee that any particular rapid release goes anywhere except in the books.
We've actually done two recently that were exactly that. Internal feature fix releases for the most part because they were not deemed worthy of the trouble to update real customers with.
But I think what we are trying to achieve is a shotgun effect where we have this set of Rapid Release and we can test each and usually we will find one that is stable and good for customer release.
Anyway, I also completely recognize that 1.x to 2.x is a big jump with many new features. We do our rapid releases within a major release, not around the edges of one. I'm sure you do the same.
As the title of my post stated I will continue to wait and support FRS. My comment here was more to point out one way of doing this stuff. You are already doing it so good to hear.
just curious how the purchase of version 2 will be handled. I assume all that want to upgrade will have to pay in some manner prior to doing the upgrade? Can we pay in advance so we don't have to wait in line when V2.0 is released trying to pay?
Mike - VE3CKO, Elmer
I think the payment system is robust enough to handle anything we as hams can throw at it.
Peter K1PGV, Elmer
@Mark WS7M
>3650 Source files containing 3,539,849 lines of real code
3.5 MILLION NCSLs is yuuuuudge. I don't even want to think about a project that size. The core portion of the Windows OS (no drivers, no HALs, etc) is only about 2 million lines. A project of 3.5M non-commented source lines scares me.
@Gerald K5SDR
>Damned if we do - damned if we don't
This, times 100. Haters gonna hate.
Keep doing the right thing: Release stuff that you're proud of, not stuff that makes you want to hide under your desk when the installer gets posted. That's what Flex has always done. Some people won't like it, and will whine. A whole lot more people would have whined a lot worse if you released something less functionally complete or less reliable.
Go home and enjoy the long weekend.
Peter
K1PGV
>3650 Source files containing 3,539,849 lines of real code
3.5 MILLION NCSLs is yuuuuudge. I don't even want to think about a project that size. The core portion of the Windows OS (no drivers, no HALs, etc) is only about 2 million lines. A project of 3.5M non-commented source lines scares me.
@Gerald K5SDR
>Damned if we do - damned if we don't
This, times 100. Haters gonna hate.
Keep doing the right thing: Release stuff that you're proud of, not stuff that makes you want to hide under your desk when the installer gets posted. That's what Flex has always done. Some people won't like it, and will whine. A whole lot more people would have whined a lot worse if you released something less functionally complete or less reliable.
Go home and enjoy the long weekend.
Peter
K1PGV
Gerald - K5SDR, Employee
@Peter
My goal every day is to move the ball forward on things where I have control and be at peace with the things I cannot control. Someone wise much before my time said that in a slightly different way. I know that it is impossible to make everyone happy so I don't even try.
My goal every day is to move the ball forward on things where I have control and be at peace with the things I cannot control. Someone wise much before my time said that in a slightly different way. I know that it is impossible to make everyone happy so I don't even try.
Just a basic Squelch..... I have a Cadillac without basic Power Steering.
Mike - VE3CKO, Elmer
"a Cadallac without basic Power Steering", analogy more fits Maestro
instead of squelch. HF squelch is that important to you. That
certainly is at the very bottom of my list. Have you learned how to use AGC
in combination with RF Gain yet ?
Your downward talk to me me.... well I wont go any further, yet I should.
Yea I'm aware of what I can do to lower the noise level..... eliminating it till a friends come on calling me is what i want, receiving multiple channels and no squelch is just wrong.
If you don't want basic functions fine, its not all about you.
Yea I'm aware of what I can do to lower the noise level..... eliminating it till a friends come on calling me is what i want, receiving multiple channels and no squelch is just wrong.
If you don't want basic functions fine, its not all about you.
Mike - VE3CKO, Elmer
Not talking down, was just trying to help, just asked if you learn the AGC technique. Your name is Dave and that is all I know about you, your call and your experience isn't tagged with your post. Your ears must be super sensitive compared to mine, I can adjust to barely hear anything noise which is not dead silence but essential very very quite, interrupted only by the crashes and noise, it's gonna break the squelch too.
ok fair enough, you didn't know me but I'm extra class.
I make my living as a sound engineer so I'm sure I hear what most don't.
4 channels of barely nothing is something.... We have whistles and bell for whistle and bells..... yet no basic squelch, ive repaired countless radios and cant recall a single one without squelch. Not asking for a whistle for my bell for my whistle that has a bell.
Friend was told the squelch module is already written.... said its intelligent squelch, static and such wont break it...... fine.. great..... better is better but basics first.
I make my living as a sound engineer so I'm sure I hear what most don't.
4 channels of barely nothing is something.... We have whistles and bell for whistle and bells..... yet no basic squelch, ive repaired countless radios and cant recall a single one without squelch. Not asking for a whistle for my bell for my whistle that has a bell.
Friend was told the squelch module is already written.... said its intelligent squelch, static and such wont break it...... fine.. great..... better is better but basics first.
(Edited)
Gerald - K5SDR, Employee
Dear Dave Dave,
You have FM squelch today in v1 but you are not going to get general purpose squelch in v1. I am very sorry but that is the way it is. Our radios do many things that others don't but I understand that squelch is the only feature you care about. I never found a lot of use for squelch on HF but I know you are sincere in wanting it. I much prefer optimizing AGC-T as Mike said and not have squelch popping on and off with static crashes.
73,
Gerald
You have FM squelch today in v1 but you are not going to get general purpose squelch in v1. I am very sorry but that is the way it is. Our radios do many things that others don't but I understand that squelch is the only feature you care about. I never found a lot of use for squelch on HF but I know you are sincere in wanting it. I much prefer optimizing AGC-T as Mike said and not have squelch popping on and off with static crashes.
73,
Gerald
don't like or want squelch.... don't use it..... I just don't get it, such a basic control.
Gerald - K5SDR, Employee
Dear Dave Dave,
Yes, I wrote a squelch module myself for the original PowerSDR written in VB6 about 16 years ago before it every saw the light of day in public. I liked to demo it on narrow filter CW. Never liked simple squelch much on SSB. I never liked squelch much on the I/K/Y radios I owned before starting FlexRadio. I am not saying it is not important to you though. I understand it is because you have repeated it so many times on this forum.
It's all about the trade off between resources and priorities. Everyone has their own favorite feature. I have my own pet personal features that I would like to have just like thousands of others here. Virtually every customer I meet tells me about their pet feature. Many seem easy on the surface. I have to nod my head and say, "yes that sounds like a great feature." Unfortunately, we have to make decisions every day on the highest priority things to do next. I don't ask for any of my favorites.
Sorry, that your squelch has not risen to the top of the priority list and will definitely not be in v1.x. If and when it rises to the top, it will rise to the top. There is nothing more I can add at this moment so that is the last word on the squelch topic for now.
With respect and 73,
Gerald
Yes, I wrote a squelch module myself for the original PowerSDR written in VB6 about 16 years ago before it every saw the light of day in public. I liked to demo it on narrow filter CW. Never liked simple squelch much on SSB. I never liked squelch much on the I/K/Y radios I owned before starting FlexRadio. I am not saying it is not important to you though. I understand it is because you have repeated it so many times on this forum.
It's all about the trade off between resources and priorities. Everyone has their own favorite feature. I have my own pet personal features that I would like to have just like thousands of others here. Virtually every customer I meet tells me about their pet feature. Many seem easy on the surface. I have to nod my head and say, "yes that sounds like a great feature." Unfortunately, we have to make decisions every day on the highest priority things to do next. I don't ask for any of my favorites.
Sorry, that your squelch has not risen to the top of the priority list and will definitely not be in v1.x. If and when it rises to the top, it will rise to the top. There is nothing more I can add at this moment so that is the last word on the squelch topic for now.
With respect and 73,
Gerald
I really would like the squelch work correctly on 2 meters.
Squelch is for land mobile use.
Gerald - K5SDR, Employee
We have had FM squelch for years.
What about rf gain (agc-t) for FM?
I understood Gerald's position and accept that it is what it is, not a priority, but I would like to share my 2 cents as to why it is important for some of us.
I personally never missed squelch with the 6300. But with the 6700 and potentially 8 ssb streams squelch would be useful. I use FRStack to have the functionality, but it would be great to have it native to SmartSDR.
I like to be able to leave a slice on 50110 usb with squelch to "hear" an opening when it happens.
I also do the same on ssb sats. I will leave a slice waiting for a pass, and will get on the radio if I hear a new grid calling. No need to be glued to the screen. No need to have the white noise on all the time.
I am a member of a local group of cw oms and we practice on 7035. I like leaving a slice there with squelch in case someone shows up.
There you have it, 3 scenarios where I have a use for squelch on ssb, 2 of them on hf.
I understood Gerald's position and accept that it is what it is, not a priority, but I would like to share my 2 cents as to why it is important for some of us.
I personally never missed squelch with the 6300. But with the 6700 and potentially 8 ssb streams squelch would be useful. I use FRStack to have the functionality, but it would be great to have it native to SmartSDR.
I like to be able to leave a slice on 50110 usb with squelch to "hear" an opening when it happens.
I also do the same on ssb sats. I will leave a slice waiting for a pass, and will get on the radio if I hear a new grid calling. No need to be glued to the screen. No need to have the white noise on all the time.
I am a member of a local group of cw oms and we practice on 7035. I like leaving a slice there with squelch in case someone shows up.
There you have it, 3 scenarios where I have a use for squelch on ssb, 2 of them on hf.
Ken - NM9P, Elmer
I wouldn't find a simple, level activated squelch very handy for most SSB applications. It would be opened by every random noise burst that hit my antenna. I can do just about as good by turning back my AGC-T a little until things quiet down, and turning on the NR a little.
However a "Smart SSB Squelch" that actually detects the frequency components of the human voice and opens the squelch when a voice is present would be a great addition. It would even trigger on weak signals that would be inaudible with the AGC-T technique, or would never open a standard level activated squelch.
That would be just the thing for monitoring 6 or 2 meters, or sitting quietly on a net or my group's rag-chew frequency, etc.
I would look forward to seeing something like that someday. But I wouldn't expect to see it any time soon. There are enough things to tackle right now.
However a "Smart SSB Squelch" that actually detects the frequency components of the human voice and opens the squelch when a voice is present would be a great addition. It would even trigger on weak signals that would be inaudible with the AGC-T technique, or would never open a standard level activated squelch.
That would be just the thing for monitoring 6 or 2 meters, or sitting quietly on a net or my group's rag-chew frequency, etc.
I would look forward to seeing something like that someday. But I wouldn't expect to see it any time soon. There are enough things to tackle right now.
I would love to get the basic simplistic squelch while they work on the other "smart" one to be or not to be implement at a later unknown date never to be determine.
Squelch is just one of those strange things. It appears that some here find it more important than most features - going by the number of complaints - and I have never ever used a squelch on HF on any radio other than VHF, and Flex has that. On my Icoms with the weird combo RF-Gain/Squelch knob, I've always gone into the menu to turn it into RF gain only.
I'm much more interested in Tim's barbecue drawer and beer tap feature request. That's critical! 8^)
I'm much more interested in Tim's barbecue drawer and beer tap feature request. That's critical! 8^)
Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager
Doing an alpha test tomorrow with a 7 lb prime brisket point. Testing begins at 4:00am. Seriously.
we have 4 lb of BBQ chicken and a pound of pulled pork. baked beans, homemade lemonade. 7 adults, 2 kids and 4 dogs. thats just a start.
Further Flexer discussions of ?????Squelch might help get it created by providing the definition of what ?????Squelch should be designed to actually do.
Saying "It" doesn't BLAH, so give us BLAH, NOW! won't make BLAH happen. You first have to define BLAH.
Do we want LegacySquelch, or SmartSquelch. How long should LegacySquelch delay the creation of SmartSquelch. and how long should either delay the release of the the next user requested feature, or the next Bug Fix.
Anyone have any idea what type of Squelch controls they want, or where exactly they want them to be put, within the GUI?
Since SimpleSquelch isn't built-in yet, when I need Squelch I use FRStacks 3rd party SimpleSquelch, whenever I need SimpleSquelch. Quite often I get by without any SimpleSquelch, with only a few simple tweaks to the AGC-T settings, I also don't care to listen to empty band noise so I turn it down with the volume controls, or find a more interesting frequency to listen to, one with some audible signals present.
We "can" wait for SmartSquelch to be defined. or we could set about designing it, ourselves and then requesting it to be added when we know what we want it to be.
Software Defined Radio can also be User Defined Radio, once the Users Define it.
Saying "It" doesn't BLAH, so give us BLAH, NOW! won't make BLAH happen. You first have to define BLAH.
Do we want LegacySquelch, or SmartSquelch. How long should LegacySquelch delay the creation of SmartSquelch. and how long should either delay the release of the the next user requested feature, or the next Bug Fix.
Anyone have any idea what type of Squelch controls they want, or where exactly they want them to be put, within the GUI?
Since SimpleSquelch isn't built-in yet, when I need Squelch I use FRStacks 3rd party SimpleSquelch, whenever I need SimpleSquelch. Quite often I get by without any SimpleSquelch, with only a few simple tweaks to the AGC-T settings, I also don't care to listen to empty band noise so I turn it down with the volume controls, or find a more interesting frequency to listen to, one with some audible signals present.
We "can" wait for SmartSquelch to be defined. or we could set about designing it, ourselves and then requesting it to be added when we know what we want it to be.
Software Defined Radio can also be User Defined Radio, once the Users Define it.
73, Jay - NO5J
Lee, Elmer
I know when v 2 will be released, when it's ready. I'm an anesthesiologist by profession and you would not believe the number of patients who want to know how long the surgery is going to take. It takes as long as it takes and not a minute more. Only a dumbass would base his surgery on speed and not success. Flex could have put out a version and called it version 2 at any time and charged you for it. Instead they have continued to add value to version 1 month after month year after year. What's the reward? Bitchin. Maybe they should put out version 3 in 6 months and charge you another $200. Bet you all would be real happy then.
73 W9OY
73 W9OY
Gerald - K5SDR, Employee
Lee,
This is a perfect analogy, which I quoted on another thread. It would be like telling someone your estimated time for the surgery is 4 hours and then at 4 hours closing them up and sending them to recovery with a known bleeder inside just because you estimated 4 hours.
Gerald
This is a perfect analogy, which I quoted on another thread. It would be like telling someone your estimated time for the surgery is 4 hours and then at 4 hours closing them up and sending them to recovery with a known bleeder inside just because you estimated 4 hours.
Gerald
Steve K9ZW, Elmer
@Gerald K5SDR
Please know that there are a lot of us who admire FlexRadio Systems management for making the hard decisions to delay.
Those of us in Project Delivery know the pitfalls of premature delivery and the difficulties with some client's when their need for gratification is unsatiated.
Also must say that the extensive additional posts and communications are appreciated.
73
Steve
K9ZW
Please know that there are a lot of us who admire FlexRadio Systems management for making the hard decisions to delay.
Those of us in Project Delivery know the pitfalls of premature delivery and the difficulties with some client's when their need for gratification is unsatiated.
Also must say that the extensive additional posts and communications are appreciated.
73
Steve
K9ZW
Gerald, your surgery analogy certainly resonates with me.
Four months ago I had quintuple coronary bypass surgery. The operation was expect to take 5 hours, however due due to unforeseen complications, it took 10 hours, followed by eight days in a medically induced coma, two weeks in intensive care and a total of six weeks in hospital.
Did I take it out on the Surgeons? Of course I didn't. I am so so grateful they took whatever time was necessary to get the job done.
I am sure that the vast majority of you clients are also grateful of your devotion to making every software release as good as it possibly can be.
Winston VK7WH
Four months ago I had quintuple coronary bypass surgery. The operation was expect to take 5 hours, however due due to unforeseen complications, it took 10 hours, followed by eight days in a medically induced coma, two weeks in intensive care and a total of six weeks in hospital.
Did I take it out on the Surgeons? Of course I didn't. I am so so grateful they took whatever time was necessary to get the job done.
I am sure that the vast majority of you clients are also grateful of your devotion to making every software release as good as it possibly can be.
Winston VK7WH
When one make an analogy like that one begins to remember how "less than important" getting a ham radio software release out the door is.
Best of luck to you Winston. Wow. My father fought Heart Disease all his life and lost the battle at 73.
Mark - WS7M
Best of luck to you Winston. Wow. My father fought Heart Disease all his life and lost the battle at 73.
Mark - WS7M
Thanks Mark, I was very fortunate and my recovery has been quite remarkable. Yes, sometimes a little less impatience ends in a much more satisfactory result.
73 Winston
73 Winston
Ken - NM9P, Elmer
Blessings to you, Winston. My prayers for a speedy and complete recovery.
Ken - NM9P
Ken - NM9P
Thanks Ken. Our prayers and your prayers have already been answered. My recovery has truly been amazing.
I'll chime in and put my vote forward for an operational squelch. I have a 6700 and participate in several groups. I nearly always have 4 panadapters open and occasionally go all the way up to 8 panadapters. I do use the poor man's squelch in Stacks. I greatly appreciate it as the ONLY squelch available on the 6000 series, but it can be just a tad bit cumbersome to use.
I've had my 6700 for 5 years now. I know how to use it and I've played around with the AGC-T and several other settings to reduce background noise and allow me to pick out the signal I'm looking for. I hate to say it but this just isn't the same as a good squelch.
I understand there are a lot of folks here that could care less about an all-mode squelch but why in the world do you need to chime in and try to make someone feel bad for asking for this particular feature. While some of you could care less about a squelch, including Gerald, there are some of us who really really miss this feature. Especially with 8 panadapters.
Oh I almost forgot. I think the FM squelch is pretty poor. I don't really use it because it is constantly popping and emitting a burst of noise throughout the house. I use my IC-7100 instead and it works perfectly (squelch wise).
I've had my 6700 for 5 years now. I know how to use it and I've played around with the AGC-T and several other settings to reduce background noise and allow me to pick out the signal I'm looking for. I hate to say it but this just isn't the same as a good squelch.
I understand there are a lot of folks here that could care less about an all-mode squelch but why in the world do you need to chime in and try to make someone feel bad for asking for this particular feature. While some of you could care less about a squelch, including Gerald, there are some of us who really really miss this feature. Especially with 8 panadapters.
Oh I almost forgot. I think the FM squelch is pretty poor. I don't really use it because it is constantly popping and emitting a burst of noise throughout the house. I use my IC-7100 instead and it works perfectly (squelch wise).
(Edited)
Ive figured out why on Squelch....
Apparently if a radio has Squelch the operator is somehow forced to use it or the radio will go into thermal meltdown, This is apparently a problem with only flex radios.
Nothing else makes any sense, I mean if a feature so basic as a squelch could simply NOT BE USED then surely the people that don't want Squelch would have no comments.
2 to 8 receivers and no squelch...... Cadillac with no AC....... I see no difference.
Apparently if a radio has Squelch the operator is somehow forced to use it or the radio will go into thermal meltdown, This is apparently a problem with only flex radios.
Nothing else makes any sense, I mean if a feature so basic as a squelch could simply NOT BE USED then surely the people that don't want Squelch would have no comments.
2 to 8 receivers and no squelch...... Cadillac with no AC....... I see no difference.
(Edited)
KY6LA - Howard, Elmer
@Dave Dave
Flex usually priorities new features by consumer demand and resources required to implement it
While I personally have never used squelch on HF in my 59 years as a ham and don't recall talking to anyone else who uses it, I can understand that there are use cases for a small number of users.
In searching this forum, I could not find a lot of people (except for your myriad of requests) who were asking for squelch.
Perhaps, rather than belaboring the point over and over and over again, you might want to start a new thread requesting votes for Squelch. To be fair you might want to list other features people might want like VISIBLE COLOR SCHEMES, SPOTS ON DISPLAY, AUTOMATIC AGC-T (to name a few of my desires) and ask people to prioritize them
That way Flex might get a non-scientific indication as to how important these features are to customers and how many people might want them
If I were making the list it would be
1.VISIBLE COLOR SCHEMES,
2. SPOTS ON DISPLAY,
3. AUTOMATIC AGC-T
4. Multi-client
5. Better NR
6. ........
..........
999. Squelch
Obviouslt y YMMV
Frankly I suspect you will get much more traction if you can collect a number of prioritized requests than continual belaboring the point ad naseum.
Flex usually priorities new features by consumer demand and resources required to implement it
While I personally have never used squelch on HF in my 59 years as a ham and don't recall talking to anyone else who uses it, I can understand that there are use cases for a small number of users.
In searching this forum, I could not find a lot of people (except for your myriad of requests) who were asking for squelch.
Perhaps, rather than belaboring the point over and over and over again, you might want to start a new thread requesting votes for Squelch. To be fair you might want to list other features people might want like VISIBLE COLOR SCHEMES, SPOTS ON DISPLAY, AUTOMATIC AGC-T (to name a few of my desires) and ask people to prioritize them
That way Flex might get a non-scientific indication as to how important these features are to customers and how many people might want them
If I were making the list it would be
1.VISIBLE COLOR SCHEMES,
2. SPOTS ON DISPLAY,
3. AUTOMATIC AGC-T
4. Multi-client
5. Better NR
6. ........
..........
999. Squelch
Obviouslt y YMMV
Frankly I suspect you will get much more traction if you can collect a number of prioritized requests than continual belaboring the point ad naseum.
Alex - DH2ID, Elmer
On the spot,Howard. I only would like to add a point
6. locking a slice in the middle of the panafall and moving the panafall horizontally
while tuning, not the slice. See PowerSDR. Should be an option.
73, Alex - DH2ID
6. locking a slice in the middle of the panafall and moving the panafall horizontally
while tuning, not the slice. See PowerSDR. Should be an option.
73, Alex - DH2ID
(Edited)
No need to create a thread for it.
Here is a thread lets vote for it
https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/squelch
A lot of people do not understand or use the VOTING feature.
When you LIKE an IDEA please click here:
(Not that it will do any good.... The whole idea that our votes in the community for features make a difference doesn't hold a lot of water IMHO.)
There are 133 conversations about squelch.
It is a 4 year old request that it is still Under Consideration.
Here is a thread lets vote for it
https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/squelch
A lot of people do not understand or use the VOTING feature.
When you LIKE an IDEA please click here:
(Not that it will do any good.... The whole idea that our votes in the community for features make a difference doesn't hold a lot of water IMHO.)
There are 133 conversations about squelch.
It is a 4 year old request that it is still Under Consideration.
It won't do any good. It is what it is. Do you think the new series of radio's will be shipping in July or August . . . Doubtful. You hear people talk on various frequencies and their talk about flex is " Flex is a nice radio but you have to wait forever for the basics" Heard that last week from a ham. I have put my new flex on hold because of this. If they ever kept a roll out date for something I'de be shocked.
So everyone wait and wait . . . and wait . . . and wait . . . and wait.
So everyone wait and wait . . . and wait . . . and wait . . . and wait.
@Salvador,
Yes, there are a lot of good and old ideas on the list. And voting them up doesn't really seem to get them addressed quickly but at least one of them has made it to V2. The "pop out" panadapter is basically what was asked for in the second highest requested idea. It has been on the list for 3 years and has 68 votes.
@Howard,
It looks like most of the ideas you mentioned are also at the top of the wanted list too. They are at the top of my list too. Maybe now that V2 is almost done we will see some of them start to show up.
FWIW, I'm in the group that doesn't plan on using the WAN feature but understand why it is important to the company and many other customers. FRS needed to prioritize it for those reasons. I'm much more interested in the other requests that have been on the top pf the list for up to 4 years and really hope we see them in the next year or so.
Here is a snapshot of the TOP 7 ideas with the number of votes highlighted. CLICK to enlarge.
There are 1,000+ ideas on the list, so most likely your favorite is already there. Add your comments and a vote, it may actually help.
Regards, Al / NN4ZZ
al (at) nn4zz (dot) com
SSDR / DAX / CAT/ 6700 - V 1.10.16
Win10
Yes, there are a lot of good and old ideas on the list. And voting them up doesn't really seem to get them addressed quickly but at least one of them has made it to V2. The "pop out" panadapter is basically what was asked for in the second highest requested idea. It has been on the list for 3 years and has 68 votes.
@Howard,
It looks like most of the ideas you mentioned are also at the top of the wanted list too. They are at the top of my list too. Maybe now that V2 is almost done we will see some of them start to show up.
FWIW, I'm in the group that doesn't plan on using the WAN feature but understand why it is important to the company and many other customers. FRS needed to prioritize it for those reasons. I'm much more interested in the other requests that have been on the top pf the list for up to 4 years and really hope we see them in the next year or so.
Here is a snapshot of the TOP 7 ideas with the number of votes highlighted. CLICK to enlarge.
There are 1,000+ ideas on the list, so most likely your favorite is already there. Add your comments and a vote, it may actually help.
Regards, Al / NN4ZZ
al (at) nn4zz (dot) com
SSDR / DAX / CAT/ 6700 - V 1.10.16
Win10
KY6LA - Howard, Elmer
I missed squelch when I first got my 6500 because my Icom 7800 had a really nice soft squelch that I used on SSB often. But once I started learning how to use AGC-T I quickly forgot about it.
Rich
Rich
Try that with 8 slices.
Gerald - K5SDR, Employee
Damned if we do - damned if we don't. We try to give as few dates as possible but sometimes we have to communicate our goals. There are factors completely out of our control such as component lead times that suddenly go through the roof with no warning. A missing component valued at $0.001 can stop a production line. It is a fact that component lead times are stretching right now due to supply and demand constraints across the industry.
Take a look at this list below of just a few component lead times I received yesterday from a major electronics distributor. Those are all parts we use. The lead time is from the time of purchase order to the time it hits the factory dock. Then it has to go through the entire manufacturing process. We try to anticipate lead times but a single one can bite you at the very last minute. We ordered all these components a few months ago for the new radios so we are counting on the vendors to be on time. If they slip, we slip. You can't build a radio if a single part number out of hundreds is missing. There are literally thousands of individual components in a radio.
It is in our best interest to deliver our products as quickly as we can without sacrificing quality. We do our best to meet our goals and we try to pad them for contingencies. I am a "glass half full guy" so that can get me in trouble. If I weren't half full, I couldn't get out of bed in the morning. ;>) My bad.
73 and back to work,
Gerald
K5SDR
Mark - WS7M
Cal Spreitzer
Cal/N3CAL
Steve K9ZW, Elmer
I'm hoping the long lead times is because FRS grabbed so much current production!
Have a fabulous 4th and catch you on the air!
73
Steve
K9ZW
Gerald - K5SDR, Employee
The list is yesterday. We placed large production quantity orders earlier this year before the lead times stretched. You don't know exactly where you are until the kits are driven from the MRP system and kitted for the line. When 100% of the kits are 100% complete and ready to go on the line is when you know for sure where you are.
We sometimes have situations where you are promised a part on a certain date and the supplier says "oops" when you call to say where are my parts. We had that with a major distributor last year who had just done a major conversion to a SAP ERP system and their delivery times were screwed up on a worldwide basis for months. They could not tell you with any certainty when you would get parts. This hurt us big time on products we have built for years and caused us to go stock out on most of our radios a few months ago. Not sure they have fully recovered yet from the conversion disaster. It cost them two major semiconductor product lines that I know of, which are now moved to their largest competitor.
We have to work these issues all the time in conjunction with our manufacturing partner.
Gerald
Steve K9ZW, Elmer
We see the same sorts of issues in my industry, and also with software conversions that create industry-wide disruption.
Juggling resource availability is a significant issue. The ripple effect of a refinery fire or unplanned outage reducing the supply of a raw component - and why does that always happen when currency movements have already added availability pressure? - lead to vendor production limitations/delays that affect our performance third hand away. Let's not even talk about the woes that trucking issues add!
Hope everyone has a great Holiday Weekend!
73
Steve K9ZW