V2.5 update — profile autosave

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  • Updated 4 months ago
The release notes for V2.5 are posted in the downloads section now. It looks like the profile auto-save feature of V3.x was added. Is this going to be optional?

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Al / NN4ZZ

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Posted 4 months ago

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KC2QMA_John

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I sure hope they added the option to turn OFF Auto-Save feature otherwise it's useless to me.

(#6953 TX Profiles are now saved automatically. Added TX Band Settings overview)
(Edited)
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Tom W3FRG

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I was preparing to do the Ver 2.5 update until I found out that the Auto Profile Save function was also included.
Now, with this APS included with out an option to turn it On or Off, I can't take advantage of either the Ver 2 updates or Ver 3 upgrade.

Now I'm stuck with an old un-updated version; AKA a BRICK !
What good is a radio that furnishes updates that are useless to its users?

Flex had better start listening to its customer base or there won't be one.

Tom W3FRG
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Looks like a TX profile auto saves, and an overview is added for a fast glance at the settings.
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KC2QMA_John

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WOW what a let down. Well until I can turn off the auto-save "feature" in SSDR I will not be able to update my software going forward.
Oh well..... :(
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Al / NN4ZZ

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Hi Bill,
My main concern is the RF power setting. Sometimes I tweak it but prefer for my profile to stay the way it was. I also saw this in the changelog but may be something else.

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Bill -VA3WTB

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Al, I'm not sure on this either. I will have to see it working before deciding anything.
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KC2QMA_John

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FRS Please give us the option to turn OFF auto-save!
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Cal Spreitzer

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Just finished reading through the change log!  Lot's of API changes!  How many third party apps will now be broken once again?!?!?  Here we go again!

Cal/N3CAL 
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AH0U

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When will 2.5 be available for download??
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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Monday
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KC2QMA_John

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The 3rd party apps will catch up soon I'm sure I think a few apps have already updated for 3.0 code.

I would gladly pay $199 right now to update V3.0 but not till I can turn OFF the auto-save function.

But as it is now it looks like I'm stuck with V2.4.9 until this issue is addressed at some point.

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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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Not sure I understand what your issue is about turning off autosave profiles..

I have been running V3 since at least January and do not seem to have any problems with profiles.. I do keep backups and if something is screwed up (usually because I had to go back to 2.4 for testing), I just reload the old profile. 
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Tom W3FRG

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Its not the fact that you can go back and reload your saved profiles. I can't go back and reload my blown devices due to this oversight by FRS.

Currently the Tx levels are saved in the Profile. If the Tx level is changed by some error and you transmit into an LDMOS amp that's expecting 5 watts MAX and it gets > than spec you can pop the devices.

An option to turn the Profile Save ON/ OFF is required.

That's why the majority want the Tx Profile to be set at the required level and not changed by some operational error that has been opened up by this newly added option.

Tom W3FRG
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Steve K9ZW, Elmer

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Tom brings up a great idea. That DESPITE any autosaves there is some safety and security in having setting limits that autosave cannot exceed.

Those boundary-limits would only be movable by e direct user action.

Makes sense once you clear away the emotive distractions.

Worth thinking about?

73

Steve
K9ZW
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James Whiteway

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Well, looks like the ANF update I was hoping for didn't happen. Makes me wonder if it ever will.
Maybe v4 or v5 or who knows what future version, will get the ANF fixed. Luckily for me, I didn't buy v3.0.19 in hopes of seeing an ANF fix. But, I do have a working ANF now.
It's called a Timewave DSP 599 zx. It actually works well and even knocks out multiple carriers without distorting the receive audio.
Unfortunately, Timewave no longer manufactures the DSP 599zx. But, they do come up for sale on eBay occasionally.
James
WD5GWY
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Bill -VA3WTB

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James, I don't understand.. no were was it mentioned ANF was going to be addressed in this update 2.5. Why were you expecting it?
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Gary NC3Z

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Guess Flex has not been paying attention to the forum here and the great hatred of this "feature". Flex are you listening??
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James Whiteway

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It will be interesting to see where the ANF comes up in the survey. Maybe not very high up the list.
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WX7Y

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I don’t think the Survey was from FLEX but something someone started I think the only thing FLEX tracks is the trouble tickets.
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James Whiteway

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No, there was an official email from Flex Radio that all registered owners received. It gave a link to an online Survey asking about wanted bug fixes and feature enhancements.  As I understand it, the response was quite large. (several thousand).
And I read somewhere, that they planned to post the results of the survey.
James
WD5GWY
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WX7Y

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The power settings will be a pleasant addition for me because with a AMP there is nothing worse then going to another band and the Power is set to high for that band and you key up and damage the AMP.
I am how ever kinda wondering if saving the profiles on the go is a really good thing or not until I play with it a bit, I guess if this can be over ridden by “export” your settings and if something really gets hosed up then just do a “import” with the leaving the pan adapter settings “unchecked” to put it back to your starting point then the profiles won’t be a big deal, also when things are set make a backup profile and have them in another directory may also work . I am sure there is several work arounds.
To get the BUG fix’s will be WELL worth the time it takes to do the update and if it doesn’t work then simply roll it back as NOTHING is burn’t in stone with the FLEX radio’s and long as YOU do your EXPORTS on a regular basis which is not the same as saving a profile.

73
Bret
WX7Y
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Cal Spreitzer

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It really seems odd that Flex would add V3 features to the V2 update??  To me it's very aggravating since the Profile Auto Save feature was one of the many reasons I reverted back to V2!  Unless it has an option to turn off I wont be using it!  I'm also curious if the Band Settings Menu that was added is still compatible with DDUtil??    Does the V2 update also have a change to the API?   

Cal/N3CAL




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Al / NN4ZZ

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Hi Cal,
RE: Does the V2 update also have a change to the API?

I see a number of references in the V.2.5 changelog to API changes, so it appears the release may be based on the V3.x API. One of the alpha testers or Flex should be able to answer.

On a related note, if the API has changed the “Works with Flex” page may need to be updated for some of the apps. CHANGE TO:

Works with V2.4.9 and lower ( currently says “works with V2)

Works with V2.5 & V3

Not sure but again one of the alpha testers or Flex can lets us know if this is a correct assumption.

Regards, Al / NN4ZZ
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Roger, W6VZV

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There is no place in Hades hot enough for whoever came up with this "on the fly" modification to Profiles.  It has made Profiles all but useless to me.  I am thoroughly ticked off about this.  Flex, do you care?
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KC2QMA_John

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Agreed.
I could be wrong but I have a feeling that FRS will address this soon. I hope.
Just a simple On/Off switch and then everyone is happy.
Just saying.
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Bill -VA3WTB

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I think I will just wait to use this myself before commenting if I like it or not. All the testers, Flex employees, and thousands of customers are using it without problems. Except for a few on the community.
(Edited)
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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Yes... V2.5 API will be compatible with V3.0 API except for MultiFlex


Most 3rd Party developers wanted a single API to support so going forward the V2.5/V3.0 will be the supported API.


Many 3rd Party programs already work with V3.0 and most others will do so shortly if they have an active developer supporting them.


Sounds like planned obsolescence because if you want new 3rd party features you will have to upgrade to 2.5 or 3.0
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Cal Spreitzer

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V2.5 API should have not changed and should have been compatible with V2.4.9!   To me Flex added insult to injury and basically thumbed their noses at folks like myself who were aggravated and unhappy with V3 and reverted back to V2.  Now they go and change V2 to the point it's actually V3 without Multi client.  Why is it the features I so like and use are always found in third party apps?  Why can't Flex deliver some software that has all these features built in so I no longer have to play the 3rd party app game constantly!   For every step/upgrade forward I take I end up downgrading!  Things seem to be more broken than fixed!   Bottom line I'm forced to not upgrade once again!  Not happy! 

Cal/N3CAL
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Cal, I see your points, and are all good ones.

The subsystem in V3 is drastically different from V2 because of the introduction of Multi Client. Because the code sub system is much different in V3 the API had to be changed. It could not have been compatible with V2. But now, the API will work with both 2.5 and V3.  I may not be technecally correct here. I hope Tim could expound on my discription.

The radio software does not use the PC hard drive like the old PSDR thick client did, so running programs in the thin client that need processing would not be a good thing. This would tax the resources in the radio to much, being that the thin client is only a dummy terminal and is not linked to any outside processing.

It was alway the plan to use third party software to do things outside the scope of SSDR if needed. This has alway been seen as one of Flex greatest advantages, is seamless 3rd party intergration with the Flex.

For anyone thinking of buying a Flex radio, they should understand the differences between thin client and thick client, and understand the systems that the Flex is based on.
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Simon Nash

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Flex are clearly not listening, again they are introducing new features which nobody really wants when the basic functionality of the software has still not been addressed. This release seems to be bit of a knee jerk reaction to recent criticism to Version 3 and the bug list gets longer and longer. All I want is a transceiver with features that actually work.
I am sure I am not alone when I say I am quickly loosing faith in Flex to listen to its customers and address the issues that have been around for years.
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James Whiteway

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While I agree with a lot of what you say, I think the recent official Flex Survey email that all registered owners received, does show, that FRS is at least trying to find out exactly what their customer base needs or wants.
By adding v3. API changes to the API, FRS has, ( in my opinion) created a means to make it easier for their developers to do bug fixes for both v2.x and v3.x versions of SSDR. It won't help anyone on v1.x of SSDR, but, it may well be that there are few people using that version anymore. I would have still been on v1.x had I not traded up my 6500 & Maestro for a 6600M. I didn't have a need for SmartLink. But, I did want MultiFlex ( Multi Client) so I could run my homemade app at the same time SSDR and/or, the front panel was running, so I bought v3.0.19.
We will see how the survey results turn out hopefully. And how FRS responds to the results.
James
WD5GWY
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AH0U

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I think Elecraft May indirectly encourage Flex to listen... time will tell
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Joe N3HEE

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Flex will be paying very close attention to Elecraft. The K4 won’t be out until Nov/Dec 2019 at the absolute earliest. There will be issues with the K4. Elecraft is notorious for fixing problems quickly. So Flex has roughly a year before the K4 will become a serous and formidable competitor. Competition is good for consumers and great for Flex owners ! This will be very interesting to watch. I will stay with Flex for the time being but am watching Elecraft closely.
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Burt Fisher

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Is Flex notorious for fixing problems quickly? Will Elecraft charge for updates? Will we have to wait 2 years after an announcement to buy one?  Will the K4 come with FM, unlike the early 6000s?  Will Elecraft meet promise dates? The K4 won't have 8 slices but most hams only have two ears.
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Mike - VE3CKO, Elmer

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So many questions. I also have two ears as bad as they are, but my eyes allow me to see past two slices, hence why I went with the 6700.
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Al / NN4ZZ

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Hi Burt,
There is a new Groups.io forum for the Elecraft K4 that was just created this weekend.  It looks like a good/better place to get a lot of the answers to your questions. 

I did see a video where Eric said all of the software updates would be free.  I don't think we should post the links to the K4 forum or video here.  But it's interesting to see what they have.   

Regards, Al / NN4ZZ  
al (at) nn4zz (dot) com



 
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Al / NN4ZZ

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Hi Simon,
It can be frustrating but the recent survey is a step in the right direction. On a related note, I talked to Gerald and Matt at Dayton this weekend about the survey. Surveying is a complex undertaking . Deciding on what to ask as well as how to analyze the data. This survey is the first one I can remember, and hopefully it will help us all.

My primary feedback was to ask them to consider adding the top voted ideas on the community in the next survey. Maybe just the top 10 or 20 — many of them have been on the list for a while but I think many may still be valid. I suspect that many of the issues you referred to are in those top 20. It would also be good to provide links in the survey to the idea on the community so people could read the details and proposed solutions.

Regards, Al / NN4ZZ
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Bill -VA3WTB

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This is just my feelings. At the dinner there was no talk of planned features to continue with Multi Client. This makes me think the rest of the V3 life will be about working on the survey list?

At this point it seems really silly to suggest Flex is not listening. Pay attention.

And looking at the new K4? it looks like Elecraft has been watching Flex for a while, things like Power Pole connectors,,HDMI out, 1/8 mic jack in on the back. But I don't know if any mic input is balanced.
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mikeatthebeach .

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K4 is a serious contender since all Code from
The KX3 was proven and ported over to the
K4 like ANF, Zero Beat CW, CW Decode, And
now LAN support , touchscreen features !
Watch out FRS !
73 Mike
(Edited)
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KC2QMA_John

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If Flex decides to go nuts on software development and unleash The power that exists inside a 6000 series radio then things would really get fun ;)

With more code optimization and a more robust feature set these radios have such potential that has yet to be fully realized.
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AH0U

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I don’t want pie in the sky but want ham where I am
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Bill -VA3WTB

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The real competion is between Yaesu, Kenwood, Icom, and now the Elecraft K4.They all share much the same platform, part SDR and part analog.
 The Flex is 100% digital receive and transmit till the digital is changed to analog at the PA.

From what I see from Electaft, the K4 will come it in 3 models. All modular. All updates are free, but I don't beleive the software development cost is anywhere what Flex pays. And next year they are offering them in kit form.

Next year the K4 will sport 2M and 440 plug in on the board optional. And will have a auto tuner, optional.

Look out, the other 3 contenders. I think Elecraft takes it hands down.

Flex will continue to hold it's own with things it can do smoothly others just can't.
Such as, no brainer remote. And Multi Client, and still has  the best screen of them all.

Bye the way, I noticed none of the new radios have and are not planning on pure signal? I thought that was going to be all the rave?
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Bill -VA3WTB

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John, they sort of already have, Many people do not understand how huge of a deal Multi Client is and how complicated it is. It is an amazing claim to fame. If we stop and consider what has to happen in the software to have this work?

But to some it's nothing if it's a feature they don't need, overlooking the complexity.
Something that stands Flex apart from everyone eles.
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Gary NC3Z

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Look at the rear connectors on the K4, they have an input for pure signal.
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Neil D Friedman N3DF

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I'm looking at the rear panel in the K4 brochure.  Which is the pure signal input jack?
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James Whiteway

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Bill, you should re-watch the interview video with Gerald. He talks about, (briefly) the fact that the 6000 Series radios are Linux servers. Linux has been used as server software for years in the IT world. There is a ton of information out there, plus a lot of developers that can make the Client/Server feature work in a radio using Linux as the OS.
While a Radio/Server is unique in the Amateur radio world, I would think it would be easier to find client/server developers than it is to find DSP developers. FRS apparently has a good mix of both. Now that they have pretty well nailed remoting and client/server, I hope development does turn more towards DSP. And  basic features in SSDR that need attention.
James
WD5GWY
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Gary NC3Z

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TX SMPL IN
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Bill -VA3WTB

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James, thanks, but I'm not sure what the first part of your comment was refuring to,,servers? I am well aware of the point Gerald made on that.

The new K4 is using the same server method using Linux

Not to re hash old stuff, I think that was the intention of the survey, to get the very latest data from the customer base. It sounds very possitive that many things will be worked on soon acording to the data collected.

But when they do i'm sure there will still some un happy for any reason. Want it faster, what about my wants? I don't beleive your data. On and on.
(Edited)
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James Whiteway

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Bill, sorry if my comment was not clear. What I was trying to say was the Client Server software for the 6000 Series radios was probably not near as difficult getting going as DSP functions are.
 The K4 looks very promising. The only video I've seen didn't really give a good look at the panadapter. And that is one of my favorite things about the 6600M. Great, wide band panadapters.
My hope is now that FRS has the survey in hand, they will see there are a lot of customers that want the basic features of the Flex radios, that are common to all modern radios, to work as well as, or better than, the competition.
James
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Bill -VA3WTB

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James, I can't speak to if one is more work than the other, but I do know that SSDR is very very complicated to work on, this has been stated by some who work on it every day at Flex.

I also know that the DSP features are and will be large projects tieing up lots of people. But I do think it is worth doing for sure. And when they do I hope they leave the WNB alone because it is wonderful here and saves the day many times.

Keep in mind also that in most other radios the DSP is done with both software and anolog filters , or all anolog. Time tested and true. They are not inventing, they use known data that works. As a resault many times these radios will perform better then a Flex as they are using a known working format.

In SSDR, because of such a complicated software, working with DSP is new ground, so many levels of code to work on. Several parts of the code bieng worked on at the same time. No one knows what changing a bit of code will do till hours or weeks of testing is done. So much testing. And the DSP is 100% software. If it were as simple as simply injecting known working  Algorithms as some have suggested, Flex could fix this DSP over night. But It is not so simple.

Others have mentioned that SDR consel for the Anan is also all software and they got it working!
Yes they did, but they were not working in SSDR, I beleive if many of these writers were working with SSDR they too would be slowed from the complexity of SSDR. They did it in a PSDR base. Not even remotely like SSDR with it's wide band coding.

Almost all my comments are snipits from comments published from Flex emplyees in the past, I am no expert.
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Neil D Friedman N3DF

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The brochure says that the "TX SAMPL IN" jack will be used at some future time for "external amp RF sample input."  Is that the same as "pure signal"?  Not disputing anything; I just don't understand it. 
(Edited)
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John - K3MA

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Pure Signal is a ANAN group name for adaptive pre-distortion.  A low level signal is needed from the output of the RF amplifier to be fed back in to the software used for adaptive pre-distortion.  So yes this "external amp RF sample input" can be used to get the feed back signal into the adaptive pre-distortion software should it be made available in the Elecraft radio.
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John - K3MA

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Pure Signal is a ANAN group name for adaptive pre-distortion.  A low level signal is needed from the output of the RF amplifier to be fed back in to the software used for adaptive pre-distortion.  So yes this "external amp RF sample input" can be used to get the feed back signal into the adaptive pre-distortion software should it be made available in the Elecraft radio.
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Michael Walker, Employee

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I did notice that Anan was not even at Dayton. 

If they were there, I was not able to find them.  The fact they are not there does seem to indicate that their sales is not high enough to make a living and also cover travel expenses.  Just an observation.
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Alan W4FBI

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not meant to hi-jack this thread, but in addition to the Elecraft K4 competition, there is this:
https://eesdr.com/en/products-en/transceivers-en/mb1-en

Looks very interesting...

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Joe N3HEE

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From what I have gathered from watching the interviews the K4 base model appears to compete with the Flex 6400M.  It supports multi-client connections.  Two receivers only.  Remote control is built in over Ethernet/Internet.  The panadapter appears to be a rehash of the P3 display which needs work to equal the functionality and appearance of the Flex panadapter.  The K4 is significantly more expensive. The K4D model offers a second ADC for diversity RX but no full duplex (SO2R) support.  The K4HD with optional supehet front end will be priced in the mid $5K's.  So for now Flex is ahead of the curve with better offerings with more functionality at lower prices.  I'm confident Flex will quickly start working on user survey items soon to keep its customer base happy and stay ahead of the SDR tidal wave. Interesting time for SDR consumers and manufacturers.  
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mikeatthebeach .

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Looks like time to carefully examine pro’s and con’s
And make things better !
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AH0U

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Giving birth to a Tiger is a lot different than learning how to ride it.... makes no difference how great an achievement Multi is if it is useless to the users.... could be a scientific winner and an economic loser
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Economic loser?  sales are through the roof
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Burt Fisher

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You know that how?
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Al / NN4ZZ

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HI Bill,

RE:  Bill -VA3WTB  said --  This is just my feelings. At the dinner there was no talk of planned features to continue with Multi Client. This makes me think the rest of the V3 life will be about working on the survey list?

I believe there will be more MultiClient features in V3.x.  Steve didn't discuss new 3.X features at the dinner but I believe "concurrent access" to allow the Maestro to act as a control surface along with SSDR is one of them.   And likely more tweaks to Multiflex as well. 

I don't think we'll know for a while what else is coming in V3.  Even Flex has work to do to see what the survey results might show.  And then they have to meld the customer desires with their internal list of fixes, minor and major enhancements, etc. 

I do agree that a lot of folks are hoping to see some of those popular user requested ideas, fixes, etc  come to fruition, we just have to be patient for a few (or maybe many) more months.

Regards, Al / NN4ZZ 
al (at) nn4zz (dot) com

.  
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Al, I forgot about the the Maestro to act as a control surface, this is what's so fun about this, we just don't know. maybe a little of both?
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John - K3MA

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For those that want it now.  FRStacks3 can allow your Maestro to act as a control surface.  It also allows you to see whom else is connected to your radio and what they are doing.
(Edited)
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Martin Ewing AA6E

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You can set max power in the  settings>Radio Setup>TX tab.  That's the way FRS wants you to protect your amp, it seems.

Of course, it doesn't allow for easy switching between amp and direct operation, which is what you probably want.

The ability to lock max. TX power (by band? by profile?) seems like a reasonable request.  The "right" answer would be to have a positive feedback from the amp that tells SSDR when to cut back, like traditional ALC. Another "right" answer would be for the amp to protect itself and disconnect if it gets too much input.  But none of this helps you if you've got an easy-to-blow amp already.

Haven't tried it yet, but other than the amp protection issue, I think I like the autosave feature, since it should make updating profiles simpler.

As to the latest SSDR update question.  I would have to say it's quite unusual to switch your main API in a "minor" point release without backward compatibility.   Flex, please don't do that!

73 Martin AA6E
(Edited)
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Roger, W6VZV

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Good info, Martin on the max TX tab.  I'd forgotten about that.