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Undervoltage/powerpole issue

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Answers

  • Steve K9ZW
    Steve K9ZW Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 2019
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    A mechanical issue is indicated by your being able to push-in to get a solid connection. Powerpoles work with a slight tension of the metal contacts “hooking over” the other one. Are your cables actual Anderson connectors or clones? You can ID the real ones by an “A” molded into them. I’m not a Powerpole fan, but like most of us use them because they are ubiquitous. It is worth a read to understand how they work, and I liked seeing the cutaway cross sections in the literature, which you can find at: https://www.andersonpower.com/content/dam/app/ecommerce/product-pdfs/CAT-PPMP.pdf At the mating end of the connectors hams use, the dimensions remain the same between the power ratings. There are some options to go to silver plated and for higher retention forces. There are other options in the powerpole family - a special ground wire version, a finger protect one with ribs, and the larger sizes. Back to your particular problem the diagnostics are all pretty hands-on. I’d start with a magnifying glass and a dental pick to check things out. The contacts are self-wiping and Anderson makes suggestions to ****/protect contacts in the literature. GL and 73 Steve K9ZW Blog: http://k9zw.wordpress.com
  • KC2QMA_John
    KC2QMA_John Member ✭✭
    edited December 2019
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    Just because it's "ubiquitous" doesn't mean it's the best connector. It's like the old saying "if Bill jumps off the bridge does that mean you should too"?
    One would think for such hi-end radio equipment there would be better quality connectors used, I fully understand that cost is always a factor when making a product but when your customers are already paying close to the top of the market a few dollars more would not be a deal breaker for most. It's not like asking to have the radio made out of rare materials.

    Fortunately many hams like myself have a good technical background to update some of the radios shortcomings on our own.
  • KC2QMA_John
    KC2QMA_John Member ✭✭
    edited December 2019
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    The aderson connector is not a bad connector I just think that in my opinion the one flexradio decided to use is a bit under rated for the 6000 series but get the job done.
  • Dan KG0AQ
    Dan KG0AQ Member ✭✭
    edited December 2019
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    The power pole connectors and cable are stock from Flex. I am new with power poles so I have no idea what the amperage ratings of the connectors are. 

    Through the help of fellow hams on this thread I have bent the spades very slightly, used Deoxit gold and the problem is completely gone. The connection does not pull out easy and also does not move up and down as much.

    I am still contemplating moving the cable side connectors up in size to 45 amp as several have mentioned.

    Does anyone know if the stock connectors on the cable side are 30 or 35 amp rated? I can take a picture if necessary but would think it is a standard throughout the Flex 6000 series radio.

    73, Dan KG0AQ
  • Al_NN4ZZ
    Al_NN4ZZ Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 2019
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    Hi Dan / KG0AQ,
    It is hard to tell the rating of the cable side contacts in an assembled cable.  I believe you would have to dis-assemble the cable and measure the dimensions of the contact and compare them to the Powerpole specs for each size.  Or if you have samples of the various sizes you may be able to determine the size with a side by side comparison.  

    Per the hardware manual, the contacts on the radio side are 45A.  I didn’t find any details in the hardware manual or on the Flex web page on the contact rating for power cable supplied by Flex.  That’s why I asked Dan / N7HQ in my post above for an official answer.  There are some references in this thread to a lower rating for the cable contacts here but not sure if that is accurate.   Maybe some one has measured the contacts and can confirm it one way or the other.  

    I expect Dan / N7HQ will reply with an official answer.  Or maybe someone else here or another employee has that information.  

    Regards/ Al / NN4ZZ




  • K9DUR
    K9DUR Member ✭✭
    edited December 2019
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    Al, you are correct in that you cannot tell the contact size from an assembled cable.  However, measuring the contact would tell you nothing.  There are 3 different contact sizes available for that size housing:  15 amp, 30 amp, & 45 amp.  The contact portion of all 3 are identical.  The only difference is the size of wire that the crimp portion will accommodate.  The 15 amp contacts are designed for 18 or 16 gauge wire, the 30 amp contacts for 14 or 12 gauge, & the 45 amp contacts for 10 gauge.  The rating of the contacts themselves is in excess of 45 amp.  The limiting factor of the current capacity of a cable is the wire size. — 73, Ray, K9DUR
  • Steve K9ZW
    Steve K9ZW Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 2019
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    I too make my own pigtails to isolate connectors I don’t care for. As for Powerpoles FRS is not unique in using them. Basically there are three camps, being Molex-type connectors, Powerpoles and unique/uncommon connectors. Most seems to depend on what a manufacturer standardized on, rather than a specific reassessment of needs and performance. 73 Steve K9ZW Blog: http://k9zw.wordpress.com
  • Al_NN4ZZ
    Al_NN4ZZ Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 2019
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    Hi Ray,
    Thanks for the info, I'm learning more about Powerpole connectors that I expected to, lol.  Here is a data sheet (from the Mouser web page).  It looks like the only difference in the 15A, 30A & 45A contacts is the barrel size (dimension A) to accommodate up to 10 gauge wire size.  As you pointed out.  The highlighted part numbers are both for standard 10 gauge wire.  One is high mating force and one is low mating force.  I assume you could measure the barrel size to see which one was used.  It looks like it should be either .20 or .21 inches. 

    Assuming the Power cable from Flex is standard 10 gauge wire and none of the strands were cut then it should be using one of the highlighted parts.  If one of the smaller contacts was used and a few strands cut to make it fit, that would reduce it's rating.  Not saying that is the case and assume Flex would not do that. 

    I think my power cable is the one supplied by Flex but I've had my 6700 for so long that I don't remember for sure.  Do you know if the Flex supplied cable uses standard 10 gauge wire?  And do you know whether they use the low or high mating force parts? 

    Regards, Al / NN4ZZ  
    al (at) nn4zz (dot) com
    Win 10 SSDR V2.4.9

    image


     
  • Steve K9ZW
    Steve K9ZW Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 2019
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    Is the 2X safety factor used inadequate? The highest draw I’ve spotted in specs is 23 Amps, and the connector with the physical connector-to-connector is rated for 45 Amps. Remember the down ratings are all about the wire being used, as Anderson physically changes the wire-attachment to the physical wire sizing. 73 Steve K9ZW Blog: http://k9zw.wordpress.com
  • Steve K9ZW
    Steve K9ZW Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 2019
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    Won’t the wire in the cable size be the limiting factor? The physical dimension of the wire is watch is matched up by the various types of connectors, and you often can tell if a crimp-on is used on wire smaller or larger than intended. You might be able to see that without a tear down? 73 Steve K9ZW Blog: http://k9zw.wordpress.com
  • Al_NN4ZZ
    Al_NN4ZZ Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 2019
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    Hi Steve,
    I did see the max at 25 amps in the hardware reference manual (below).  My Astron RS-35M shows 3A on RX and 29A on TX but I expect the metering on the supply is not real accurate.  I am curious if others sees that higher transmit current in the 25-30A range....obviously it can't be much over 30A or the internal fuse would let go. 

    But either way, agree that 45A connectors should be fine as long as:
    • The supply wire is 10 gauge
    • The cable length is kept short with a minimal drop (e.g. 0.1v) from the supply to the radio
    • The supply voltage is high enough (13.8+)
    • The power pole contacts are the right ones for 10 gauge wire and rated for 45A. 
    Regards, Al / NN4ZZ  
    al (at) nn4zz (dot) com
    Win 10 SSDR V2.4.9


    image




  • John KB4DU
    John KB4DU Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2019
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    If one is really interested, the wire attachment (Tongue,spade) can be removed from the connector and checked.
  • WX7Y
    WX7Y Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2020
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    On the 45Amp they are usually silver plated and Thicker metal to handle the higher current unless there NOT actually Anderson connectors, you can EASILY see the difference on the 45Amp Anderson Power Pole connectors but on the 30 and 15 there is only slight differences besides  hole size the contact metal is a little thicker to handle the X2 current of the 15A and 30A current.

    Be sure you use some form of de-oxidizer on the contacts that won't dry out when putting them together then you should not have problems with the Anderson connectors. 

    I would still make your own Cable between the Power supply and the radio with larger cable and REAL 45AMP Anderson Power Pole Connector and Soldier the wire in the wire side of the connector but don't get soldier on the connection side.     but like everything else this is just my opinion!
    73's



  • Al_NN4ZZ
    Al_NN4ZZ Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 2019
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    Hi Richard / WX7Y,
    Anderson makes both Tin and Silver versions of the 45A connector.  The Silver is more expensive (about 2-3 times Tin) and rated for more connect / disconnect operations.   That seems to be the main difference.  See spec below from the Mouser web page. 

    Not sure but guess Flex used the Tin contacts which are rated at 1,500 mating cycles.


    Regards, Al / NN4ZZ  
    al (at) nn4zz (dot) com
    Win 10 SSDR V2.4.9

    image


  • Brian Denley KB1VBF
    Brian Denley KB1VBF Member ✭✭
    edited December 2019
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    So does the K3S, K3, K2(100) and Anan transceivers.  The Japanese trio use Molex. I prefer the Powerpole connectors.
  • Dan-N7HQ
    Dan-N7HQ FlexRadio Employee, Community Manager admin
    edited December 2019
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    Al, 

    We spec 10AWG stranded wire with 45A connectors for our power cables.

    73,
    Dan
  • Al_NN4ZZ
    Al_NN4ZZ Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 2019
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    Hi Dan / N7HQ,
    Thank you for the information and confirmation.  
    • 10AWG stranded wire with 45A connectors for our power cables 
    Regards, Al / NN4ZZ


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