Trade in question

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I'm curious if anyone who hasn't placed a deposit on s new model and asked for a trade in appraisal has gotten any information back from FRS. Not long after the introduction of the new line I decided to fill out the form and find out what my 6300 was worth on a trade in and upgrade to a new model. Shortly after I submitted the form I was invited to send in the required deposit to get in line for a new model. I decided not to do that yet and haven't yet received word back on the value of my grade in and was curious if anyone else has.
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Rick

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Posted 2 years ago

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Michael Walker, Official Rep

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Email Sales@flex-radio.com and we'll let you know. Or, start here. http://www.flexradio.com/amateur-prod...
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Al Reeves

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I received an email from Matt on June 5th stating that my 6300 w/ATU would be worth $1200 trade value towards a new 6400M or 6600M unit.  Further, he stated that if I sent my radio in immediately he would give another $100 trade value.  I would suggest that if you want to get a new 6400/6600 then sell your radio outright.  I think you'll get a few more dollars more than FRS's offer.  As we (6000 owners) know we to a big loss on our radio's value since the announcement of the 6400/6600 radio.  Guess we'll just have to "suck it up".
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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

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Honestly, I can't see why anyone is surprised. Private party will always net more for anything. The advantage of a trade in is that it's easy and you don't have to deal with the hassle of selling things and after-sales support, buyer's remorse and other stuff. 

So is that few hundred worth your time and aggravation? 
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Lee, Elmer

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The "private party sale" advantage is true until V2 is released.  Flex will sell refurb 6300's with V2 and some kind of warranty either 1 or 2 years according to the website.  At that point Flex owns the market and there won't be any "few hundred dollar" differential.   Given the price of the 6400, nobody's going to pay you $1800 for a V1 6300 when they can get one from Flex with V2 and a warranty for probably less, or just buy a 6400 for 2K.

I looked at swap.qth to get some idea of what ppl are thinking and I think prices are wildly over blown IMHO.  One guy is selling a 6300/Maestro for $3300, crazy.  Personally I'm very positive on this dynamic.  The market and the market competition is what it is, and getting something like a V2 6300, for someone coming from knob radio land, is a tremendous value and will only grow the brand, and its longevity.  The best deal is to buy a V2 license and keep the radio IMHO.  

73  W9OY
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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

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And that's your choice. I made a similar choice with my SPE expert 1.3K. I sold it well before PGXL and the elecraft amp were announced and I put my deposit on the PGXL. Yes I'm without an amp but I got a very good resale value ( even though the buyer insisted I cover shipping and PayPal fees). Today I don't think I would have gotten as much. It's sort of like trading stocks, imo.
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Rick

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That's what I was afraid of. I'll probably sell it myself. Not sure I'll replace it with another to be honest.
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Lee, Elmer

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Unless you intend to buy v2 I think trading in is a better deal unless you sell immediatey
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Pat N6PAT

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Did you buy your radio as an investment or to use?

If you bought it as an investment you might want to think about some other area to invest in such as real estate, stocks, bonds, bullion, etc.

If you bought your radio to use on the air then what about it has lost value? Does it still work as well as it did the day before the new products were announced?

It's funny. Many of you are screaming because new products and releases are not coming fast enough and many of you are complaining that those same new products somehow devalue your current radios.

Do you complain whenever Icom, Kenwood or Yaesu come out with new rigs? Do their new rigs reduce the resale value of your radio? If so then what's so different about FRS?
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Michael Coslo

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You mean my Flex Radio isn't an investment?


Oh no, there goes my retirement plans! 8^)
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Rick WN2C

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Matt sent me an email for my trade in value. It was not enough for a 2 year old radio. If the software IS the radio and it is running the latest and greatest then it should (in my opinion) be worth more than was offered. I think I will just keep it and use it for the back up. Then I can take my 746 Pro and use it for the back up to my back up. 

I do think somebody in sales should look at the prices of the used 6300s with and without the tuner.
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Rich McCabe

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I know its discouraging to have something devalued so much but you also have to consider the new models bring more features at a price drop. This is going to lessen the interest in the 6300/6500.

Anything they take in on trade needs to be cleaned up and checked out before its sold. Then they are battling the same thing you are trying to sell it.

Be thankful you have a direct sampling radio and not a "old" superhet you need to get rid of.  I just sold my Icom 7800 for 4 grand. There is a mint Icom 7600 with accessories on QTH right now for $1600.00.

For $1200 I agree with you. I would keep it. Its a fine radio anyway.
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G8ZPX

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that suggest that a circa 5-10 year old 7600 is still worth more than a 6300 that is at most 4 years old! Not good.

At least when Icom brings out a new model like the 7610 it's to replace one that has been selling very well for over 10 years.

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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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Actually it's rather pathetic that Icom Legacy technology iwas so end of life that they hung on so lon that it took them 10 years to develop a modern SDR direct sampling radio model.
(Edited)
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G8ZPX

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...or their shrewd business acumen being demonstrated by deciding not to shoot their own products in the foot whilst they are selling so well, and it also shows a level of respect for the userbase. Testimony to this is the 3,600 units of Ic7610 now inbound to the EU.

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Rich McCabe

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"that suggest that a circa 5-10 year old 7600 is still worth more than a 6300 that is at most 4 years old! Not good." 

Wonder what would happen to the 7600 used prices if they released the 7610 at a much lower price?  I have no doubt that Flex Radios new pricing is playing a big part in the 6300/6500 used market.
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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

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And they kept the 36kHz IF found in the older DSP models 
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Gerald - K5SDR, Employee

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@G7BCX The IC-7600 dropped $1000 overnight last September when they previewed the 7610 under glass at the Japanese ham show. The FLEX-6400M is more cost effective than the 7610 yet has an 8 inch 1920 X 1200 IPS display instead of the 7 inch 800 X 400 display in the 7610. The 6400 also has two full sets of VFO controls instead of sharing a single VFO knob. 7 MHz spectrum display instead of 1 MHz, etc. Compare side by side.
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Larry - WA7LZO

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Apple typically introduces a new iPhone model about every 2 years, or so. The day their new iPhone model is launched, their previously current model iPhones instantly drop in value, like a lead weight.

This economic and marketplace phenomenon is simply due to technology advancements. You know, faster, better, sexier and cooler looking, and best of all, cheaper. Enter the 6400M and 6600M.

So, why can't we wrap our minds around the simple fact that Flex is launching new advanced radio servers, using more modern circuit designs and technologies? Accordingly and predictably, the value of their existing radio servers will instantly drop, whilst at the same time, their newer and better radio servers that replace their older models will be cheaper, providing more bang for the buck. This is called the beautiful free marketplace!

As someone said, when the IC-7610 soon becomes available, no one thinks the IC-7600 prices will do anything but drop.

Br,

Larry
WA7LZO
(Edited)
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Mike - VE3CKO, Elmer

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The 7600 already has dropped quite a bit. I know, I'm trying to sell mine with less than 15 minutes transmit time, just out of warranty. Was selling it with SP-23 and LG-7600 meter to make it more interesting but just sold off the meter separately.
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Larry - WA7LZO

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Just curious, Mike, do you plan top replace your IC-7600 with a 6400M/6600M, or go with the IC-7610? I think a lot of ppl are in this boat. A fun place to be, when you think about our "problems" versus a big chunk of the rest of the world, just trying to stay alive, day to day, and scrounging for their next meal.
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Rick

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Couldn't agree more. I really didn't want t start another firestorm as I've more or less come to grips with the fact that every 4 years or so resale prices will on flex radios will plummet. I also own a Flex 5000A loaded so I've seen this happen before. I intend to keep that one! When I posted I merely wanted to know if anyone had received trade in offers yet as I had not. I'll likely put my 6300/atu up for sale dependently soon. I had an offer a few weeks ago but I've been away and the box was at home so will have to start all over again. Grrrrr! Curiously, I sold my old FT-847 less than a year ago for about $900.....paid about $1400 many, many years ago. Just saying....
73
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Mike - VE3CKO, Elmer

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Bear with me, I still have 5000A RX2 ATU VUK, when I got my 6500 I got the 7600 as backup knob radio as I've sold off a TS-2000 and FT-1000MP, there was no Maestro then.Then got the first Maestro in Canada, later I sold the 6500 to get the 6700. Would have been wiser to just have gotten the 6700 but, oh well. I turn on the 7600 once in a while to reassure myself it works, it is no comparison whatsoever to either Flexradio and have zero interest in the IC-7610.
To answer your question if I did not have the 6700 I would surely go with the 6600M. Since the Maestro is rarely in the shack, I thought about getting the 6400M as my backup knob radio but then why I have the 5000A that gets little use already.
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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

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The icom 7300 shattered the market for used knob radios. Yes it's a SDR at the front end but it's a cheap decent performing radio that is good enough for most people.
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Rich McCabe

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7300 or 7100?
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Rick

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I have a flex 5000 loaded, 6300 and icom 7300. I would not say that the icom is noticeable inferior by comparison. I'm sure it is compared to the 6700 and maybe the 6500 but I wouldn't go much further. It is missing some features like the transverter port, 2nd antenna input and such, but I'm sorry to disagree, the icom 7300 does not perform like a cheap radio and some performance aspects are better than my 6300. But I'm sorry I let myself get drawn into this as all I asked was a simple innocent question about what flex was offering for a trade in value.
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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

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Rick, note what I said very carefully:

"It's a cheap decent performing radio."

It's a decent radio at a cheap price. Apart from the price it is cheap in some aspects - no RX antenna, 2nd receiver, I/Q out etc. But it offers decent performance and for the price it's very good. It isn't as good as my 6700 but my radio is a $7000 radio and that's a $1300 radio.
(Edited)
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Rick

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Yes yes I couldn't agree more. I've been licensed since 1965 but just can't justify that much money for a radio.
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Steve K9ZW, Elmer

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Rick, in saxophone terms are you playing a student/step-up or a performer's grade horn?

Kind of the same thing in ways.

73

Steve
K9ZW
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Rick

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Pro line of course....Selmers....but I'd add that recently I hooked up with Mac Sax out of Austin. They are made in Taiwan and it's a dead copy of a vintage proline Selmer that plays its you know what off. I sometimes use it. Costs less than 1/2 the new Selmers. Of course in both cases we are comparing apples to walnuts!
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Steve K9ZW, Elmer

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Yeah, one gets their hands on the best playing horn they can, and figures out how to cover the costs somehow.

That's also kind of my radio approach.

BTW a mixture of horns here, but I started on a brand new Mark-VI tenor back in the day.

73

Steve
K9ZW
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Rick

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Still playing on my 60s mark vi and have VIs on all the saxes plus a few other brands. But that's my business though less now in retirement. I guess that's the difference, I'm not a professional radio operator and don't make a living at it, though I love the hobby.
73
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Steve K9ZW, Elmer

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Yeah I understand that. I'm pretty sure I've played some of your works.

I've read and written in the past about how people tend to discern a quality/cost level over time.

A lot of times they carry over the general level where they have comfort into other purchases.

I've observed the budget includes time and other bits as well as the money of the purchase price.

Mostly playing an old YBS-51 because I know it is going to get handled and at risk in a way I couldn't let my SML Rev-D Bari face. Currently playing a Voodoo-Rex tenor but that's an unusual choice.

73

Steve
K9ZW
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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

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There are people who like to have very nice things. The $7000 radio operator is no exception. I don't even know why the price is a concern anyway. I get 8 receivers, 2 SCUs, chart topping performance, LF-2m, and a slew of control options and networkability. I also get SO2R for half the cost of competing solutions. Besides, you haven't heard how much the antenna farm costs, and it's peanuts compared to truly big gun contesters.

Ria
(Edited)
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YV5WZ

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The icom 7300 shattered the market for used knob radios. Yes it's a SDR at the front end but it's a cheap decent performing radio that is good enough for most people
 
Agree!! I just buy one to Keep controlling my Anxious waiting for Flex-6600....
I saw you Have sold your SPE while waiting for new PGXL....I trying to follow your steps ...but.....I don't have enough space on my shack for PGXL....guess need a new home or move to NJ  hahaha....Greetings!!

George, YV5WZ / PY3ZZZ
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George Molnar, KF2T, Elmer

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I received a very prompt and professional response from FRS concerning trading-in my 6500 for a 6600. I'd second Ria's comments - private sale will net you more, but a trade-in has less hassle. 

Will be keeping my spot in the 6600 queue. 
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Gerald - K5SDR, Employee

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Exactly like trading a used car to a dealer when buying a new model.
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James Whiteway

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@George, true unless you live in Texas. (some call it Tax Us) You also pay sales tax, (8.25% most areas) on top of the cash price of the new radio. Several hundred dollars on the 6600M I preordered. Instead I traded in my 6500 and Maestro and only paid tax on the difference between my trade in and the full cost of the 6600M. Less than $100 in tax that way.
I almost sold my setup to a friend untl Matt pointed
that out to me. My friend was kind enough to not hold me to the orignal deal we had. (He was going to match FRS's price) I save over $300 that way.
So, it all depends on where you live if selling outright is a better deal or not. And also, what used 6000's are selling for.
James
WD5GWY
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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

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8.25% is nothing. NYC it is 8.875% and in Tennessee I've seen as high as 10% when I was living in the Nashville burbs for a bit. But you have no state income tax in TX which I'd love to have. Our sales tax is 6.875% but apart from tech purchases, most of my purchases are food and clothing (3 kids plus 4 seasons) which are tax free. Also when I buy yarn for knitting, I tell them it's for clothing (it usually is) and it's tax free. 

Ria
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Mike - VE3CKO, Elmer

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In Canada besides being already over taxed, we have to contend with a 33% exchange rate and we have a flat 13% federal tax. So let's take the $1999 US price for the 6400 if we were to buy it direct which we can't we have to go through a Canadian distributor and their mark up, but let's pretend we can buy direct. 1999 x 1.33 = 2658 plus 13% tax is just over $3k, and that is not including shipping into Canada.
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James Whiteway

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I agree. But, in this case it was over $300 saved and that allows me to use that money for other things. I'm glad Texas does not have a state income tax.
Each state has its good points and bad points. I'm just glad I live in a country where I do have choices.
Now, if only my 6600M would show up!  :-)
james
WD5GWY
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Harold Rosee

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You only lose money if you sell them.  My Flex 6500 and my Icom 7600 are both fine radios.  I can talk to just about anyone I can hear with my Elecraft KPA 500 anp.

Why does everyone think they have to upgrade?  I don't see the need.  If you were happy with your radio before the announcement of the new radios why would you feel any different now?

I just don't feel the need to upgrade the hardware.  That said, I am really looking forward to betting Version 2 of the software.  I just wish FRS would quite promising dates they cannot meet.  In my working days I was in IT.  I always "under promised and over delivered".  I was a hero ever time.  I would rather have them do that then continue to miss dates.  The software is why we bought a software defined radio, right?

I bought my 6500 because I was told I would get a new radio with each new release of software.  I want my new radio, Version 2!

Just my 2 cents.
(Edited)
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Rich McCabe

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"Why does everyone think they have to upgrade ?"

 In my case Harold, its all about picking up a second SCU.  This was the only thing for me and the 6700 was out of my reach price wise.

Not being able to select different receive antennas seriously hindered my operating style.

I would stick with my 6500 if it was not for that. Otherwise the gains are minimal.
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Cal Spreitzer

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Rick,   I submitted the the Flex trade-In form for my 6500 to 6600 on June 4th.  Received a quick reply from Flex on June 5th.   I accepted their offer which and received an additional $100.00 to send in the 6500 now which I have done.  I did not have to pay a reservation fee for the 6600.  Flex issued me a credit which covers my 6600 reservation. 

My reason for upgrade is having a second SCU, diversity receive, and ability to run two transverters. 

Cal / N3CAL
(Edited)
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Rick

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Tnx Cal as this was the kind of reply I was most hoping to get since I did not get a quote from Flex when I initially filled out the form and their reply suggested that they would be waiting, unless I chose to put the deposit down and order a new model. I think this time I've decided to adopt the same philosophy I have in buying cars - don't buy the first year new model. I'll probably wait for reviews. And bugs to be worked out and avoid the frustration. I have enough good radios around me so,will,probably sell the 6300 and wait and see. Happy 4th
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DR DEPRESSOR

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I tried selling my Flex 6500 on several sites. Unfortunately, I received minimal interest even with the radio still under warranty and a year to go on it.  The used market for SDR radio is clogged now.  Buyers are looking for low ball pricing, which is a given.  This is related to the Icom 7300  and the price point as a hybrid SDR radio. Flex realized that in order to attract more buyers, they had to improve their pricing structure and add knobs to the front end. They want to give Icom a run for their business.  Most buyers (not all) dealing with electronics are price driven and not interested in the radio specs. They want a radio that is affordable in line with their budget and get on the airwaves. This is especially true for the younger operator who simply wants a radio. The options or technology is not in the mindset of those that have limited resources. So at the end of the day I traded in my Flex for the updated model.  It's a bitter pill to swallow with these new radios.  Prices drop as the technology improves along with diminished resale value. Something never seemed possible with amateur radio.  However, that is about to change.  Unlike in years past many amateurs, selling radios would see a minimal return in the used market. That idea is out of the window at present with SDR and the future of radio technology.  At the present time you will take a bath in the used radio market.  Conversely, despite these many variables given our radio market place, there is one element that stands alone that Icom can't offer. Flex radio is built here in the USA.  Keep Americans working.  In God, We Trust. 
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Larry - WA7LZO

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Yes, the IC-7300 has absolutely turned the Ham SDR market completely upside down, what with its ultra low price point, and yet its truly tremendous performance. Heck, I plan to install my IC-7300 in my new SUV. Given the 7300's price point, if it gets ripped off, it's not a show stopper. Sure wish Flex would come out with a single band mobile!
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Ernest - W4EG

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Multi band would even be better...
With the control center like the IC-7100 with RF deck placed under the car seat: And the wiring for the tuner and antenna cabling in the trunk.
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Rick Hadley - W0FG

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Single band mobile? Except for the 'export' CB/10m rigs, I don't think anyone's' done that since Heathkit discontinued the HW-12 series. I've got an IC7100 in my Wrangler, but any time I key it up at anything above 25 watts it starts the HVAC fans, flashes the check engine light, and generally drives the Jeep ECM crazy. Back on topic, I am thinking of upgrading the 6500 to a 6600M.
(Edited)
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Larry - WA7LZO

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Oh, no, I didn't mean the single band variety Heathkit made, albeit those were awesome rigs at the time (single band only 80, 40, and 20M models, I believe). I was referring to a one band displayed at a time Flex, perhaps akin to a slightly down scaled version of the 6300, packaged up in an appropriate mobile mounting chassis. No need for more than one band at a time being displayed whilst operating in a mobile environment.

I never had any RFI issues with my Jeep Wrangler. I used the Icom AH-760 antenna and an IC-7100, albeit soon to be replaced with the IC-7300 and AH-760, in my new SUV.

Rick, you may want to check out the K0BG web site for some excellent HF mobile installation tips. Go to http://www.k0bg.com/ 

The RFI problems you are describing is exactly what Alan (K0BG) addresses on his extensive web site. He has a plethora of excellent and detailed advice there regarding the installation of a mobile HF rig, and HF antenna, to avoid such thorny problems as you are experiencing with your Jeep. I followed Alan's advice to a tee, and have never had any RFI issues. 
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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

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I like Alan's website even though I may not agree with all of it. For example he is a huge fan of drilling holes (I am not) and not a fan of mag mounts. 

But he has a lot of good info.

Ria
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Rick Hadley - W0FG

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I've spent a lot of time on Alan's site too.  I frequently refer my trucker friends to it for answers to their CB questions.  I think my problem is that the Lil' Tarheel, on the spare tire mount, is too close to the wiring for the rear washer/wiper, and RF is feeding in there.  If it weren't for garaging problems, I'd install an Icom AH-4 tuner and one of their 9' fibreglass whips up on my big front brush/anti-fa guard, Australian style.  Since the 7100 is mostly just used to monitor 27.185 out on the road, I haven't really taken the time to work out the issues.  If we don't get fiber-optic down our road at the lake this year,to enable me to use the Maestro, the 7100 will probably end up as the cabin rig, replacing my old FT-757, and be replaced in the Jeep with a good CB.
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Larry - WA7LZO

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I ran into (not literally, thankfully!) a ham at the Issaquah, WA Costco who had a Yaesu ATAS-120A antenna mounted on the front left fender of his 2014 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, and I spoke with his on his way out of Costco. He said he has not had any RFI issues with this set up. He had the little Yaesu ATAS antenna lashed up to a Yaesu FT-857 radio. Alan (K0BG) tends to not like this particular antenna, he says due to its supposed inefficiency, but the Wrangler driver said he has used it for years, with a great deal of success. I happen to also own a Yaesu ATAS-120, and the newer FT-891 (replaces the FT-857), and have sometimes wondered if I'd be better off using this combo. So much smaller, and a whole lot nicer looking than the various other gigantic mobile HF antennas, including my AH-760. All antennas, especially mobile HF ones, are big engineering trade-offs between their form factor, size, weight, appearance, etc. versus their RF performance and efficiency. So, it's a very personal choice, that's for sure.
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Rick Hadley - W0FG

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I thought about mounting the Lil' Tarheel up on the right side of my hood, opposite my VHF/UHF antenna, but went for the standard off-road look, which may have been a mistake.  Obviously, any of the little HF antennas like the ATAS-120 or the Lil' Tarheel are going to be comprimises.  In other mobile installs, I've actually had better luck with single-band helically wound whips, but I got the Lil' Tarheel brand new for $125 and decided to give it a try.  I haven't been able to come up with a good mount for a key in the stick-shift Wrangler, and my preferred mode has always been CW, fixed or mobile.  Maybe a single-band Flex with an auto-tuner would be a good deal after all.
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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

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The LT2 has a smaller diameter coil and lower Q. That's probably why he thinks it's inefficient. I had one on the sedan. It was ok and I worked a lot of DX on it when we lived in an apartment. I did get a longer whip though since the stock config was basically a giant dummy load.

Ria
(Edited)
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Larry - WA7LZO

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Ah, yes. As Maxwell Smart might say, "The 'ol screwdriver on the balcony rail trick!"