There seems to be little interest in the The PowerGenius XL

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I understand the excitement over the new radio models being shipped. How ever the new amp is a large project witch there is little information on it lately. Updates as to were things stand? There is still no info as to shipping dates if any planed. I have had a few emails from people who are beginning to look at other amps and considering a refund of their down payments. this is not something they wish to do, but to date they have little to go on.
The last we heard was weeks ago stating they are still in testing, 
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Posted 8 months ago

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Steve K9ZW, Elmer

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Currently overshadowed by the general release of the Flex-6400/6600 series?

I have a PGXL in my shack and it is doing well.

Of course as an add-on-Alpha I’m not going to go into specifics on the development and only FRS knows when the PGXL general release will be.

The volume of efforts being put into the PGXL is impressive.

I’m impressed to the point of decision making whether to keep my Alpha-9500s as spares or not. Thinking I should buy one extra PGXL instead.

As for whether deposit holders stay or buy something else, that is a discussion that as long time community members we’ve hashed over enough. In this case dropping a secured place also drops the that person from the included antenna tuner/coupler being included in the price.

I’ve had outstanding signal reports on the PGXL and Flex-6600M combo. I’m thinking others will be happy campers too!

73

Steve
K9ZW
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Rich McCabe

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I am only uninterested in the PGXL because I cant afford it :) 

That and I am more a 600 watt type of guy.

But very cool unit. There is always going to be less interest in something like this as there is less market.

I think once the 6400/6600 pipeline start filling up we can get back to normal talk and whining. Right now everything is overshadowed by the radio talk.
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Burch - K4QXX

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I spoke with Gerald at the Orlando hamfest and he said they had 30 test units in the field and they were finishing up testing the software/firmware.  I am really excited about the amp and ordered one last May.  If it takes a little more time that's OK as it will give me some more time to save up some money! 

Burch
K4QXX
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KF4HR

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A friend of mine attending Hamcation in Florida this year was told by someone at the Flex booth the PG-XL has a mid-summer release date, although I'm guessing that was a rough estimate.  Safe to say, the Amp still has its bugs being worked out. 

It's understandable why FRS doesn't project release dates.  On one hand they don't want to push the release date out so far that the majority of perspective buyers and pre-order folks go elsewhere, but also they don't want to project a date too soon, miss it, and create disappointment. 

I'm on the pre-order list, and have no problem waiting until the bugs are worked out, although it would be nice to get some insight on its testing progress via the Flex Insider more often.   
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WX7Y

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Believe me it is a wonderful AMP and well worth the wait like every thing else FLEX has produced. 
I've ran Flex radio equipment since 2008 and 4 Radio's a Maestro and 1 Amp in my operating locations. 


73's
Bret
WX7Y
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Varistor

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For those who are considering a lower price point, you may consider the Elecraft 1500. It is shipping today and is $1,000 less. Most hams are not contesters, let alone SO2R operations.

And before you say anything about the built in filters- the built in filters are insufficient to run a SO2R station as they are RX filters, not TX. In order to run 1500W SO2R station you need external high power BPFs.
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Chris DL5NAM

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... and for 3.500 less you get a B26-PA 2K+ from RF-Kit.de

73 Chris
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Varistor

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We bought one of these to see if we can learn anything about the LPF design. After dissecting the amp I won’t recommend it to anyone until the output transformer + LPF are done right. The power supply is underrated.
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Chris DL5NAM

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PSU with 3 KW underrated ?, Out more then 2K and IMD3 at legal power on 80m at app. 35 dB
LPF developed by Bob 5B4AGN and still over 100 PA's in USA in use !



Dream further :-)
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Even after saying what my post says, I would recommend those who have their order in should stick with it. The amp is showing to be a very capable amp, fully software defined. And SO2R a breeze. For full integration in a Flex shack, it's the only way to go.
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Varistor

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When you look at the German amp the way we do you will change your opinion. Simple example- plot Pin vs Pout from 1 to 60 MHz the shortcomings of the matching network+LPF become quite apparent. For the LDMOS pair inside the design is not getting the most of them, PSU included.w
(Edited)
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Visitor,,,You mean the RF kits? they seem to be selling lots of them as I hear.
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Varistor

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Yes, the kit. They are indeed selling well due to the price point. It’s not bad, but I don’t think it’s even close to Ranko’s amp.

Also, if you were to join the Yahoo group you will see there is a lot of remaining work before it becomes a solid product.

Most hams won’t buy one just to dissect it and see how well it is designed.
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Chris Tate - N6WM, Elmer

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Just to be clear, you would need 2 K3's and 2 KPA1500's to do what you can do with 1 6600/6700 and 1 PGXL.  we need to make sure we are comparing apples to apples.
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Varistor

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Just to be clear, the number of hams who care about SO2R amps is tiny. I want 3, but most people don’t. Go to 3830 and count the SO2R entries as a percentage of all submissions.
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Chris Tate - N6WM, Elmer

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One of the benefits of PGXL is its integration ability with the Flex 6600/6700 transceiver.  2 Spectral capture units, 2 antenna inputs.  1 radio, 1 amp. full duplex. I am fully aware of the amount of SO2R operators on the contest circuit.  Now that the price point and ability to do SO2R has been reduced to 1 transceiver and 1 amp, I would expect there to be more experimenting on improving scores very soon using these capabilities.  There are a number of other unique features of PGXL that are attractive as well. I have no doubt that both products will have their supporters for various reasons, I am sharing some of my experiences with this innovative, and unique new amplifier.  
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Chis, I don't think visitor is knocking the PGXL. Anyone can see it is over engineered. But to one of his points, that is a lot amp and price for someone out side of contesting. For me, and I represent the average guy who likes rag chewing at most, it would make little sense.
Now, If Flex were to introduce a smaller amp of lets say 800w to 1000w  at a much lower price, that would suit my needs much better.
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Chris Tate - N6WM, Elmer

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I cant argue with that Bill.  There are is more than one market here.  SO2R operators is one,  and folks that want to take advantage of the integration of the 6XXX and the amp would be a second example,  An integrated light weight power supply solution would be a third,  etc. I would imagine some of the DXers and Rag chewers (I can be found in those categories some times as well..) fall into the later categories.  That being said, 2 KW high duty cycle amps are not for everyone. (but they are super cool!) ;-).
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Varistor

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I actually think Rankos amp is engineered right, not over engineered. The SO2R portion doesn’t add that much more cost or complexity.

Note that I am deliberately calling it Ranko’s amp. It is engineered by Ranko and marketed by FRS. The much touted integration with SSDR is a buy product of the amp’s design to monitor UDP traffic for band changes. This feature is there to support integration with N1MM, WriteLog, etc. FRS is very smart to build on that feature and promote the amp.
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Part of that is correct, some of the very basics of the amp are Ranko. But it has been greatly modified for the needs of Flex. As a result almost every function of the amp is run from software. Before the extensive modes, software could not talk to every function, including continual bios adjusting on the fly. So, think of it as a SDR amp. As Gerald correctly calls it. So, it is not simply an amp already there and they dropped in a bit of firmware and went to market. It was a joint venture to create this amp. 
So your understanding on this is very misleading.
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Varistor

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Nonsense. Except for the most basic amps, virtually all decent amps have EBS. Adding a bit more dynamic EBS on a per band and drive level basis is nothing FRS has invented. Once you have the amp follow the radio and take advantage of simple microprocessor logic dynamic EBS is child’s play.

In plain English it is called envelope tracking. It is commonly used by commercial transmitters and the cellular infrastructure. Guess what Ranko does for a living...commercial communications gear!

The most difficult challenge for this amp is cooling. Assuming it is indeed capable of doing full power with no time limit you need serious cooling, and not just cooling of the LDMOS.

So Bill, I highly recommend you take the time to learn about SS amps and pay less attention to FRS marketing.
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Varistor

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P.S. Envelope tracking is irrelevant to hams except in one area- cooling. So Ranko is implementing a better than average EBS solution in order to improve cooling.
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Bill -VA3WTB

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I know you have no Idea who you are talking to here, and that is fine. Others on the community also has listened to what Gerald has said in this topic. Nothing can be further gained here for me. You are not the first one to hang around this forum posing as an expert on all things.
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Brad A. Steffler

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While I am EAGER to get my PG XL, I can be patient. I want the tight integration with my 6700 and I am willing to wait for this integration mediated via LAN for the decrease in shack wires and the SSDR control. Then I will have a 1500 watt SDR transceiver. 

 I know that Flex is more eager to get the  amp to me than I am to have it, if that is possible. I want Flex to make sure that it is done right.

My antenna work is taking more time than I thought so I can be patient. Rains in Mobile, AL have been torrential recently and antenna work has slowed as a result - after recovering from the flu that took  4 weeks! So, I can be patient about the PG XL. I am  a good deal more impatient with the speed of my antenna work.

Brad
KE4XJ 
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Chris Tate - N6WM, Elmer

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I have already posted a top SO2R rtty score (tied for an in category world win) with a flex 6600-M and a PGXL.  Impressed the heck out of me.. and that is not easy to do.  This is a different beast than anything out there right now.    1 transceiver, 1 amp, fully SO2R, full power, RTTY duty cycle.  'nuff said.  Filters are could be a need dependent on your particular antenna environment, seperation etc.
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KF4HR

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Varistor.  No name or call?
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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@KF4JR

Please give him a break..

His need to hide his name and call may be due to the rumor that he does not own a Flex product and his wish to post controversial (and perhaps totally incorrect) opinions on many subjects on which he purports to be an expert

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Tom Wilkinson

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I am interested in the PowerGenius XL, so I pre-ordered it at the end of June.  If all goes well I hope to see it in July but I am willing to wait until all the alpha and beta testing is done.  I looked at a lot of amplifiers before ordering and this one hit all my requirements.  If you need an amplifier today obviously the PowerGenius XL is not for you no matter what the price and there are a lot of good options to choose from from other manufacturers that can ship today.  My 600 watt amp will hold me over until the PowerGenius XL is ready.

Tom
N8FDY
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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I have a SPE 2K-FA which currently maxes out at 1150Wwhen I try to use FT8. So much for an allegedly 2K amp.

By contrast Ria N2RJ runs a full 1500W on FT8 with a PGXL.

Not many dB (1.3dB). But for some of us every dB helps work the really weak ones.

Bottom line. Likely enough of an improvement in heat handling Characteristics in the PGXL to justify upgrading for various digital modes
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Bill W2PKY

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The PGXL amp uses the latest high tech heat sinks and can run full legal power endlessly on FT8, or any other mode, without any cumulative heat buildup. Talked to Ranko @ Orlando last year before reserving the amp. When I asked about running digital modes "long term" he just smiled and said "no problem". My Alpha testing verifies his claim.
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Newbie

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FT8 is designed as low signal mode. Most would consider running 1500W on FT8 as rather rude.
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mikeatthebeach .

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Many use FT8 on 6meters at 1500watts out to work multi-hop rare DX
(Edited)
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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@Newbie

The low power myth is a carry over from PSK31 which is greatly affected by IMD

FT8 is a WEAK signal mode NOT necessarily a low power mode.

You definitely need to up the power to work weak ones down below -20

Bottom Line. Use the power you need to make the Q. Too much power brings little benefit but too little power means no Q
(Edited)
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Rich McCabe

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I agree with Howard. I run my amp throttled down to 80 or 100 watts when working FT8 and roll the slider up to 600 (that's all I have ) when needed.  If no one was running power I would be getting lopsided signal reports.

It is NOT a lower power mode.  It may work low power but so does 5 watt SSB
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Brad A. Steffler

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Every Flex product I have owned has been top notch and has suited me to a "T". Are they perfect? No. But they go over and above to give good service and good technology. I like the way they do business. I like their engineering - they think like I do. And I like that they are reachable for support.

I will not disparage other products, for two reasons: There are some pretty good products out there and I realize that what I like is not for everyone.

But for me, Flex is the winner hands down. I realize that I am putting a lot of faith in Flex to produce a great product in the PG XL. But i think that this trust is more than justified by their past history. Life is too short to troll other forums (fora?), in order to dish out negative comments. I will just enjoy my PG XL when it gets here after being done right. Until then, I will use my Ameritron AL-82. I am happy to wait for a top notch amplifier. 

Brad
KE4XJ
(Edited)