Syncing both SCUs in the 6700 - simple diversity mode

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  • Idea
  • Updated 6 years ago
  • Implemented
  • (Edited)
After the antenna matrix switching is fixed, can we soon look forward to slaving the receivers with multiple antennas?
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K4EAR

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Posted 6 years ago

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Stu Phillips - K6TU, Elmer

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Not sure what you mean?

Each slice has an associated transmit and receive antenna. If you change one slice and its possible to make the antenna change, it will change.

Can you expand a little on what you are looking for?
Thanks
Stu K6TU
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K4EAR

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I would like the SCU's to track each other tuning using separate antennas ANT1 and 2 and the ability to click the TX in either and have the antenna matrix accommodate.
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Greg

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Don't forget about the ability to use the other available antenna inputs for Rx.
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Stu Phillips - K6TU, Elmer

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The SCU's dont track the other's tuning - in fact, the SCU itself doesnt tune - it captures the spectrum and digitizes it.

Slices are tied to a single SCU.

Here's an example; if you create the first slice and select a receive antenna (ANT1 say) and TX on Ant1, SCU0 is assigned to antenna ANT1 and a slice is created from its data.

If you create a second slice and assign its receive antenna as ANT2, SCU1 is assigned to ANT2 and the slice is created from its data. Let's say you assign ANT2 for the TX antenna.

Neither slice will sync with the other.

If you select slice 2 for transmit, you will transmit on ant2, select slice 1 for transmit and you will transmit on antenna1.

Can you describe what you are thinking of doing antenna/port wise and why you what you want sync'd together?

Stu K6TU

PS: Yes, this is new and so the terminology can be a little confusing to begin with...
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Al - K0VM

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I think what he may be asking is will it be possilbe to do space diversity/beam stearing..
For this to work you need two phase syncronise RX slices in two different scu's each connected to its own antenna..

I have always assumed that it could be done eventually.

AL, K0VM
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Stu Phillips - K6TU, Elmer

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Al,

If that's the case then "eventually" is indeed the answer but how it will be implemented is still TBD as far as I know.

Stu K6TU
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K4EAR

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A mimicking of the 2nd Rx in the Flex 5000, where the receivers were locked and tracked each other. How will we get back to diversity reception otherwise? If I overlay two slices one on top of the other in a single SCU you cannot move both concurrently and see what your doing independently. Guess I got to spoiled the 5000 and not enough options with the 6700 to get there yet...
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Stu Phillips - K6TU, Elmer

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Ok - I got it!

You're thinking of diversity reception rather than the ESC on PowerSDR. Two slices, each on different antennas that you could listen to, perhaps one on the Left and the other on the right.

That's not there yet (blindingly obvious statement :-)...

But I do now understand what you want!
Stu K6TU

PS: Sorry if I was a little slow off the mark...
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K4EAR

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Yeah, that's the ticket sorta... Not two slices one SCU, but both SCU's engaged with it's respective slice tracking each other, same band.
I just hope the antenna matrixing scenario will allow the RX ports for the ANT1,2 ports to be managed with ANT 1, 2 of course with lockout options as was the case with the 5000.
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Stu Phillips - K6TU, Elmer

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What you want is supported hardware wise - indeed, minus the tracking, you can do this already with the current software release.

The tracking is something that will have to go on the "subsequent release" list - if TIm's earwigging here, hopefully he can add a user story to the database.

Stu K6TU
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WA6FXT Mike

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Stu,
I think what k4ear wants will also need some DSP work to combine the slice data to phase shift the signals as needed to 'steer' the virtual antenna. Of course, all of this will be needed, when the GPS combined diversity setup is activated for internet radio server combining.

Are we having fun thinking of stuff to keep the folks at FRS with jobs for years!! (hihi)

73's de Mike WA6FXT
Hmmm... $200/yr to pay for these kind of features is looking pretty cheap.
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K4EAR

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Syncing multiple SCU's may give them a headache. I wish in one hand and want in the other and see which one fills up 1st. Now is the time though to express opinions.
The ears are open from the flex team.
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K4EAR

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Redux, I'm only interested in two SCU's tracking with independent TX/RX from ANT1,2 and RX1,2
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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I am watching and I have entered this thread for a simple diversity mode of operation as a User Story (Feature Request). This is a really interesting idea and should not be technically challenging to implement. You would assign one antenna/SCU combination to one slice and another antenna/SCU combo to the other slice in the diversity pair. Then just track the frequency change of the primary slice in the diversity pair. You would want audio panning (L/R) and auto muting of any existing slices. There should be no restriction whether the slices are in one spectrum display or in separate spectrum displays.

But, our development team has the final say on how all of this would come together.

Thanks for the interesting new idea thread.

Now folks need to vote it up or down.
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Ken - NM9P

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[begin dreaming mode]....
Possible implementation format: including the coining of several terms...

They could add a simple "diversity" button to the RX pull down that would slave the two SCU's together, one on each antenna port. Automatically assign SCU A to Left audio, and SCU B to Right audio. It might even be possible to do this twice (or 4 times?) on multiple frequency bands, each "diversity pair frequency slice" paired to one above it, or beside it, on the display. Each "diversity pair" would track frequency together, regardless of which one was being "moved" by mouse of flex control.....

Can you imagine 4 diversity pairs on a 6700, perhaps using a multiband vertical on one input and a LP antenna on the other, listening to 160, 80, 40, & 20, all with polarization diversity? Could be interesting.

[end dreaming mode]...
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K4EAR

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Let's work DX split with two SCUs, same band and two slices each with two TX/RX antennas, and flip flop as needed. Sync the RX freq on the RX DX slice, both SCU's, and pick and choose the TX for both! ant1,2. Now to figure the RX in/out ports for filters or preamps, and the lockouts necessary. Fun times ahead for sure.
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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This is a great conversation that's separate from the main topic, so I created a new "Idea" topic to continue the discussion. Please reference the new topic here: Working Split
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Mike - W8MM

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The primary reason I decided to purchase a 6700 instead of a 6500 was to be able to do local diversity reception. In my case, I have two separate 6-meter antennas positioned for different angle of arrival patterns. I would like to be able to gang tune both SCUs, each connected to a separate antenna, and listen to both SCUs, one in each ear.

From experiments already conducted, I expect much better "dynamic copy" as propagation fluctuates on scatter circuits, nascent sporadic-e openings, etc.

Being able to easily select which antenna to connect to the transmitter (as well as a relay output to switch the amplifier to that antenna) is an operational requirement for this to function smoothly.

Another item would be for the xmit relay logic to adopt the "stack-match" options of transmitting on antenna A, antenna B, or Both. Of course, a real Stack-Match relay box on the output of the whole contraption would be necessary for this to function. The 6700 must merely be configured to cooperate with the basic idea.

Some additional thinking about the logic truth table would be beneficial ;-)
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Steve - N5AC, VP Engineering / CTO

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Good idea.

(The part about transmitting on both antennas is not possible, though.)

Steve
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Mike - W8MM

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It sure is possible! One only needs an external bip/bop/high/low relay box come power combiner to get it done. Not native to the Flex relay matrix, but using a "Stack-Match" "relay plus Un-Un box" with appropriate selection logic.
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Mike - W8MM

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I imagine a system like this:

1) The 6700 transmitter follows the "receive-antenna of choice" selected by clicking on the control window of the desired SCU. The TX relay outputs on the rear of the 6700 would be configured so that TX Relay #1 goes active only when Antenna Port #1 is transmitting and TX Relay #2 only goes active when Antenna Port #2 is selected for transmitting.

This works fine for barefoot operations, but gets murky when a kW PA follows the 6700 unless two separate kW PAs are attached, one for each antenna.

2) Alternatively, one might configure the 6700 to always transmit on the same antenna port , but use the SCU-A and SCU-B receiver loop inputs for listening. Then, when desiring to transmit on the SCU-A antenna, only TX Relay #1 is asserted and when desiring to transmit on SCU-B antenna, only TX Relay #2 is asserted.

This requires a relay matrix external to the 6700 to switch the Transmitter Port to the desired antenna, possibly after having passed through a kW PA. We need 3 relays: one spdt for each antenna which switches from receive to transmit for that antenna and one spdt to route the transmitter output to the desired T/R relay. The kW PA and both T/R antenna relays can be keyed by a simple series-diode OR gate combining both TX Relay Outputs #1 and #2.

3) Now, in situation #2 above, let us replace the transmit Antenna-A/Antenna-B selection relay with a 2-antenna Stack-Match system from Array Solutions. Now it's possible to select either antenna singly or both antennas at once for transmit, with the kW PA on line or barefoot.

Clear as mud?
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K4EAR

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Mike, your making my head hurt.
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Mike - W8MM

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I wish I was adept at drawing block diagrams for the web. That would be much easier to follow ;-)
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K4EAR

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I'll look forward to working a 40M beam and wire antennas, along with a beverage to slice and dice if we can get the antenna matrix working FB. The 6700 has ANT1, 2 and RX 1/2, in/out. Everyone needs to chime in as to how this matrixing will need to work. A lot of thought and necessary lockouts/options will be on the table! Speak up!
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WA6FXT Mike

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Diversity / Beam steering is the primary reason I bought the 6700. The ability to use separate antennas on the two SCUs to phase steer the signals and then expanding that to the Internet Radio Servers, will be a BALL!

Mike
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K4EAR

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I would be satisfied with both SCU's tracking with the TX still locked on ANT1 for now, and with a lockout for the 2nd SCU RX ant in TX mode for the 1st SCU. I'm sure when the antenna matrix situation gets solved, this will be history.Switching antennas now with two SCU's can fubar thing up.
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K4EAR

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Just another bump, to get the antenna matrixing fixed. I hate the fubar that happens when you switch from the slice box vs the ANT box at the top left pop out screen when selecting antennas and ANT1, becomes ANT2. The TX frequency is a crap shoot.
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W5UN_Dave

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here is how diversity mode is activated on the K3 (take my setup, for example): Connect TX antenna as usual, connect Beverage antenna to RX Only port. press and hold SUB button on the K3 until the word DIVERSITY appears on the display. Its that simple. Lets hope FRS makes it that simple for the 6700.
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Greg

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Yes but note that the second antenna does not have to be on the RX only port on the K3....it can be on whatever port you set as RX for the sub receiver.