Suggest updating this Community to Require Real Names and Call Signs to post or comment.

  • 8
  • Idea
  • Updated 4 years ago
  • Not Planned

ACTION

Very simple update this Community to Require Real Names and Call Signs to post or comment.

In cases where FRS doesn't know the person a verification process might be needed as well.


BENEFITS

  • Reduction in Trolls
  • Better decorum

  • Ability to follow up with a poster/commenter

  • Limiting persons to one community ID


Doesn't get much simpler than this.

73

Steve

K9ZW

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Steve K9ZW, Elmer

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  • terrific!

Posted 4 years ago

  • 8
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Andy Thomson

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Sounds good to me.

73 

Andy

M1DRK

loving my 6300 to bits.
(Edited)
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Jon - KF2E

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As attractive as this might sound it isn't really practical. There are people who legitimately need to hide their identity not to mention the effort required to ferret out those who resort to identity theft. The real solution is to just ignore the trolls. If no one answers their posts they will get frustrated and go away. Rebutting their comments and engaging in outrageous dialogs is what they live on.

So don't fan the fire...ignore the trolls and have fun with the best radio on the market. Soon to be even better with 1.4.

Jon...kf2e
(Edited)
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EA4GLI - 8P9EH - Salvador

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I like the idea. The lost of a few people that might have a legitimate reason to hide their identity is totally out weighted by the elimination of the number of anonymous users that abuse the forum. 
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Burt Fisher

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I suggest he is anonymous not because any legitimate need for privacy but rather totally gutless and afraid to stand behind his opinion.

 

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Burt Fisher

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How could identifying yourself here pose ANY harm? If there is such a person when he goes on the air does he use an anonymous call? I don't know if the original poster is a "troll." He has a right to state an opinion, don't call him a troll because he has an unpopular opinion. That is an attempt to censor.
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Steve K9ZW, Elmer

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Troll comes from the strong indications that the person's web interactions would be less provocative if they couldn't hide their identity. 

BTW there is nothing wrong with censorship.  We do it all the time in every aspect of our life.

I cannot envision why anyone would need a cloaked persona in a public community like this - perhaps those who see it as a need could explain when it would be needed.

In the few instances where very public figures are involved in certain private forums/groups I participate in, we handle those with a courtesy identity.  What has happened is no secret to the moderators/owners and a somewhat open secret to certain insiders, but is designed to give a "stage name" to persons who otherwise would not be able to enjoy the interaction as "just a member." 

These rare circumstances would be less common here, as with a call sign you are not afforded an anonymous participation.

Nothing that couldn't be worked out in way to avoid the present situation.

73

Steve

K9ZW

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Jon - KF2E

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Steve,

It is easier to just ignore them and let their post disappear down the bottom of the screen to oblivion.

Jon...kf2e
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Steve K9ZW, Elmer

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The downside is that posters who should not be indexed, being that they are suspect or known low quality, are indexed with the same quality importance as the best posters & posts.

There is no way to avoid the legacy of poor housekeeping by imagining it will somehow become good housekeeping by ignoring quality issues.

Alas it has never worked out that things get better organized when I ignore my closet....


73

Steve

K9ZW

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Burt Fisher

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I despise censor ship, we cloak it in the term, "moderation." I have a video called, "Truth in Ham Radio", over 5000 comments, many very derogatory, I have the power to remove them. I leave them up, even the ones with the F-word in them.
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Steve K9ZW, Elmer

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Like any tool moderation, as is censorship itself, reflect the values of the editor.

I would argue that leaving foul language stand is also a form of censorship, as such language is more about driving off competing ideas than an actual form of expression.

Like in everything else the final account is written by the victors, and protecting foul language is to destabilize the playing field in favor of the foul mouthed.  It is in effect granting the worst a victory by allowing your editor's morals to be manipulated.

Hence I am fine with just moderation and censorship.  I have experienced where the moderators were rogues themselves though...

73

Steve

K9ZW

(Edited)
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Burt Fisher

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Foul language does not belong here, I do allow it on comments on my video, IN MODERATION, (get it, "in moderation!) on my You Tube channel where there is a much lower class of people.
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SteveM

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Give it up guys, it's not going to happen. I've seen people on here who don't have a ham license, but are interested in Flex radios. Do you think Flex should shut them out just so you can threaten other hams who make a disagreeable(to you) post?

Flex already has the ability to handle the nuts just like every other forum host on the internet. Delete the account and associated posts/threads, and ban the IP range.

In this particular case, I question who the nut is: ConeHead - who is tired of waiting for v1.4 and posted a vent of steam, or some of you - who are asking Flex to give you his identity.

(Edited)
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Steve K9ZW, Elmer

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Banning IP ranges is never a great idea and usually catches someone else out too.

As a solution I personally I prefer 100% moderated forums to unmoderated, as well as no secret users. 

Prospective Hams certainly could approved to participate, but bluntly should be clearly identified as prospects/non-owners.  This is both to encourage people to help them and to tag their posts appropriately.

This adds quality to the information posted.

73

Steve

K9ZW

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Ernest - W4EG

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Steve,

 I am with you in this subject.

NO NAME, NO CALL, NO POSTING.
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SteveJ

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SteveM you are spot on. Why ban someone or require a change in identiy just because their opinion of a product does not match yours. It is unfortunate but there is talk on other ham website that this forum is a Flex Lovers or Flex Fan Boys forum. It is because of this very thing. I think Cone Head is just venting his frustration on the delayed release of the updates.
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Bill -VA3WTB

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I think know one would have said much if he said that next week sometime. bur with a couple days till release?  Strange....
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Ken - NM9P, Elmer

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I don't see the problem as being incognito posting.  It there is something posted that you don't like, challenge it on the MERITS.  Have an adult discussion of the ISSUES.  If that is not productive, or at least entertaining, then MOVE ON and ignore it.  Personal attack, pseudo-psychological analysis, questioning of motives, and outright rudeness are unproductive, distasteful and a waste of everyone's time and energy.

The greater problem in this and other amateur radio forums is the insatiable obsession many hams have to measure the length of each other's coax.

Troll or not, agree with a post or not, part of the amateur code (and I hope also the Flexer code), is decorum and respect.  

Grandma always told me "never suffer fools."  Which meant to her, "Life is too precious.  Don't waste time arguing over stupid stuff."  I gave up that in junior high school.

So if a person has a gripe, I will listen.  If there is something for me to to learn, great.  If I can assist someone else with some good information, wonderful.  If I discover that they are just making trouble, I exit and don't waste my time.  I don't need to "teach them a lesson" or engage them on a negative level.  They won't hear me anyway and it just makes my blood pressure go up.  

While I am always ready for a good debate on the issues, I try never to make it personal. it's just not helpful.  If someone is a troll looking for a fight or craving for attention, then isolation, not conflict, is the solution.  Denying them what they crave is the better punishment.  

But then there is that coax measuring thing.  If I can't resist fighting with a troll, it says more about me that about him, doesn't it?

While I always find it more helpful to know someone's call when they post, I respect the right of individuals to their own real or imagined sense of security.  I also know that there are many who are not hams, or not Flex owners yet, who may be just looking, or lurking, and may not want to be identified at present.

Self control is more important to me than list control.

Let's get back to the fun.  1.4 is on the way!

Ken - NM9P
(Edited)
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SteveM

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Very well put, Ken. Thank you.

When my two teenage sons and I were licensed last year, we met several of the local hams who, for the most part, were gentlemen and many offered their support to get us started in the hobby.

However, there was one man who came to my house to lend my son his hand-held dual-band yagi antenna. This guy kept pulling a roll of cash out of his pocket and showing it to me. He also told me how he had used the antenna to locate and confront a lid in a different part of the state - admitting he ended up in the emergency room of the hospital. My wife doesn't want us to associate with him anymore.

There seems to be a relatively high concentration of megalomania amongst older men, further concentrated amongst licensed hams, further concentrated on an internet forum. So, here we are part of the everclear-club, 190 proof.


(Edited)
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Jay / NO5J

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I'm guilty, quite often of pointing at Trolls. I do it because it offends the Trolls. It also feeds them I suppose. I'm against feeding them, I'd rather they starve. I'm interested in finding better ways to deal with Trolls. They have a right to speak I suppose. I don't feel they have a right to Troll though. If we in the community all universally ignored them, they wouldn't really disappear. It's not like they actually exist. Those things I call Trolls are really just people trolling. They are people though. I don't think we can afford to ban people, If we intend this to be a community. The community could ban trolling. But the community would risk being called Troll killers, or FanBoys, or Flex lovers. I don't need my community filtered either. I'm a big boy, with a foul mouth, and a bad attitude, I can take it. But I don't see any reason to subject young innocent community members to unpleasant behavior, so there have to be limits. These should be self imposed limits and for the most part are.

Whats the point of requiring a verification process for anonymous posting. Why not let them post and force all their unidentified posts into a new community category "Anonymous Ranting, Whining, and Troll Speak", and not  allow such postings to be linked into other categories. Or require Name/Nickname and Callsign. Any poster that really needs anonymity, to be assigned a community ID of TROLL/ANON##, certainly 99 Trolls is enough. It could make moderating the community easier, watch that category carefully, let the community watch the rest. It might also be useful to provide a method of earning the title of Troll, perhaps a 3 strike law. On the 3rd instance revoke their accounts and let them reapply for the TROLL/ANON## ID or just go away. (Whatever happened to old Fred? Oh yeah! Fred, He's gone off to live with the Trolls) Maybe also a method to regain privileges. If they learn their lesson and are truly reformed, and can find 2 other members that will vouch for them, with the understanding that those that vouch for them also loose their privileges too, should they lapse.

The existing community rules are good enough when people play nice, Tim has a hard job. Keeping existing customers happy, while not driving away new customers but I think he gets paid something for his trouble. Whatever it is, it's not enough. 

My fellow community members be grateful for the freedom you currently possess, be grateful enough to keep it. Reward the good, punish the bad, learn the difference. Participate when you can. We'll leave the light on for you.

1.4 is almost upon us, let's earn it.

Oh yeah! its free, like in freedom.
(Edited)
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Jay / NO5J

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Since, the Official Response reaffirms that all are welcome, and no changes are planned with regards to anonymous posts. I'm going to implement a personal "no pointing at trolls policy" now. I pledge to leave them alone. I am grateful for the freedom, and plan on rewarding the good, letting the moderator punish the bad, and learning the tolerance that freedom requires.

On the subject of the other Official Response we got today, I guess I didn't quite earn it. I just need to try to earn it a bit more. It's close, close enough. I can wait. 
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Can someone define what a troll is?
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SteveM

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)


Note the Usage section, "Application of the term troll is subjective".

(Edited)
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Thanks, as I thought. This is why I said what I did yesterday. I know a group on HF that talk trash about flex and pass on poor info to people. They say things that are not true to put Flex in a bad light. And I know some of them come here to read and post. That's all I am going to say about it, I know who some are cause they talk about it sometimes in there group.
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SteveM

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Yeah, Bill, I hear ya. There was a thread 2-3 weeks ago regarding PureSignal. I thought those guys might be the Flex-bashers from eHam. In this case, I don't think ConeHead is a troll. Lack of patience is an all-too-common character flaw. I think he is just sick of waiting.

In my opinion, I'm not sure why v1.4 is so highly anticipated. I've not heard anyone clamoring for FM which is the only actual new feature that I have heard. Local LAN? Don't we already have it through DAX? To be sure, DAX can be flaky, but LAN operation is not new. Bug fixes? I can't think of a bug that is even slightly inhibiting. What am I missing?

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Burt Fisher

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A troll is supposed to be someone who posts for the soul purpose of aggravating people, but in reality it is anybody who posts a message that might be different and interesting and not following the rule in ham radio to talk only about the weather or your latest rare DX.
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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Official Response
I can understand and appreciate both sides of this issue.  But we have taken a fairly open policy to the Community; we allow all opinions to be expressed, good, bad or indifferent and will not censor or moderate on one's opinions as long as they are communicated in a civil, productive and mature manner. I think we all know what good community etiquette is and should practice it.

We also do not want to erect any barriers to participate in the Community, so we have chosen to allow members to use any screen alias they choose within reason and not require last names or callsigns. Some people are very concerned about privacy and we do not want to alienate those members either.  Yes, this can result in some consternation at times where one may think a member is hiding behind an alias and that is your choice, but since it isn't a requirement in the Community, refraining from ostracizing members who chose to do so shows respect for their choice as you would want your choices respected. 
(Edited)
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Burt Fisher

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Do these same anonymous posters go on the air without a callsign? There is a far greater chance of them being identified in the spectrum than on a small forum.

Maybe allowing such poster to read and not write. The thought would never occur to not sign my name to anything I write.